Went to the pharmacy today.......

[pbf777]

I am awfully tempted to buy a gun for added safety.

I think I am asking for trouble. Don't own any guns.

     If you feel the police are going to protect you............. pay more attention to the current effectiveness of their efforts!

     And if you choose to arm ones' self (I would sure advise such), in choosing your device think of how you intend to use it; that is, as "carry" weapon, or is it to park in a draw at the house for home protection?  The unit your considering is a fine choice particularly for carry weapon, but if it's going to stay at home, I would pick something a bit bigger and heavier as they prove easier to handle; which includes the fact that the grips fit a mans' hands better, they tend to point better (no time for aiming if your in a hurry), recoil is easier to control (a follow-up discharge maybe required) and even the acoustical effect upon discharge is dampened somewhat better (have you ever encountered the sound of a gun going off in the enclosure of a room in a house?).             

     Yes. go handle some handguns at the local gun store first, figure out which ones' fit your hand well, remember they get heavier when loaded, and with out looking to ominous, ask to go to the range even without ammunition and try some of what I call a guns' "self-pointing" characteristics. This is executed by staring at an object (down-range please) then quickly raise your handgun from a position down at your side straight armed shoulder level pointed at the target without actually aiming thru the sights, now look thru the sights, how close am I?  Handguns offer different "grip-angles" and weight bias front to back, and this effects the natural pointing characteristics of the device.  The more comfortably the gun fits your hand and the better it integrates with you in the beginning, the less familiarization that will be necessary latter in order to provide proper service in a crisis situation.               

     And of course, put some rounds thru your purchase, until you feel comfortable with it as a defensive tool.  Remember, your generally not going to discharge the weapon in the direction of another human being unless they're relatively close (dammed close actually) to you, that is unless you're plan is to go to jail anyway, so although good gun control means being able to hit what your aiming at, we're strictly discussing personal and/or family home security here.       

     As for me, in handguns, nothing beats a 230gr. 45ACP out of a Colt 1911!  But yes, other than it's perhaps a little slower on the draw, a 12ga. pump behind the bedroom door (remember, it's better if you demonstrate that you attempted to retreat, before you took them out!) is hard to beat.       

     And, if you ask any honest police person they'll tell you: the police are going to be a "reactive" force, not a "proactive" one in these situations (i.e. it'll be all over by the time we get there!).       

     Scott.     

[69mach351w]

380 Taurus TCP semi that I carry every single day!!  Carried in an inside clipped Graphite holster.

At home, Winchester "protector" 12 ga. synthetic loaded with buck shot. 

Also at home wife's S&W 380 semi 10 round clip.

Always keep loaded extra mag in pocket away from home and at home.

BTW, I and my wife do have a CCP and practice several times a month, a Gold member of the USCCA. and stay tuned in to their training videos constantly.

I used to think buckshot also, but consider this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=noQGg_t5eYY

Food for thought.

I disagree with bird shot. A friend of mine is an SBI agent and other close friends in law enforcement say they've seen MANY live through bird shot. When a home intruder breaks into your house, your instinct and intention is to Kill, not maim or wound because then you will have a LOOONG road ahead of you in court that can drag on for many months, and you may not win!!! Yes, that's exactly right.

My SBI Friend and others in law enforcement say you have to shoot to kill in your Home.

That's my opinion and many will have their own opinion.

[Side-Oilers]

Yes to all pbf777 just said.

A Colt 1911 .45ACP is my choice too.   You can get them with short barrels, if carry is your main objective.

[pbf777]

When a home intruder breaks into your house, your instinct and intention is to Kill, not maim or wound because then you will have a LOOONG road ahead of you in court that can drag on for many months, and you may not win!!! Yes, that's exactly right.

      As my departed grandmother would say:  "dead men tell no tales"!, so aim, and make your shots count!       

      Scott.


     

[Mike G.]

Kimber 1911 45acp. Feels just right and VERY accurate!! Mike G.

[Chris Thauberger]

Excellent information from everyone here. A great example of how we can have a discussion about something other than cars without it getting ridiculous, well almost.

Thanks for the information 

Chris

[shelbydoug]

380 Taurus TCP semi that I carry every single day!!  Carried in an inside clipped Graphite holster.

At home, Winchester "protector" 12 ga. synthetic loaded with buck shot. 

Also at home wife's S&W 380 semi 10 round clip.

Always keep loaded extra mag in pocket away from home and at home.

BTW, I and my wife do have a CCP and practice several times a month, a Gold member of the USCCA. and stay tuned in to their training videos constantly.

I used to think buckshot also, but consider this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=noQGg_t5eYY

Food for thought.

I disagree with bird shot. A friend of mine is an SBI agent and other close friends in law enforcement say they've seen MANY live through bird shot. When a home intruder breaks into your house, your instinct and intention is to Kill, not maim or wound because then you will have a LOOONG road ahead of you in court that can drag on for many months, and you may not win!!! Yes, that's exactly right.

My SBI Friend and others in law enforcement say you have to shoot to kill in your Home.

That's my opinion and many will have their own opinion.

A couple of thoughts here.

LONG ago (35 years) NYPD officers were told that if you need to fire your weapon, you must shoot to kill. IF you fired just to wound, that indicates that you had a choice and you didn't need to fire.

Next. Bird shot in a shotgun indicates the same thing.


For home defense, a pistol grip, "sawed off" (can't be shorter then 18" without special ATF permit which you will not get) pump.

This is what NYPD has "in the car" for up close "riot" situations. Hang it in the closet near the front door, between the coats. Locate it so that you can reach in the closet and swing it out.

NO ONE in  their right mind is going to screw with you with that. Show your kids how to handle and use it.



There was a case in Texas where a 5 year old saved his father's life in a home invasion with a shotgun and literally blew the bad guys away.

Load the thing with 00 buckshot and practice the phrase, "please step away from the glass".



Oh. Don't put this sucker against your shoulder to fire. You will be very sorry if you do. It kicks and you need a shoulder pad with any shotgun. This, you fire it like in a Steve McQueen cowboy movie. From the hip. That's why it has a pistol grip.

It really isn't good for much else besides that type of a conflict or watching the assailants shorty hairs stand on end when you look at them. It helps if you don't blink.

You might get a lot of whining about this selection from "precision shooters". Up in close there is little precision shooting. You need terror, power and action now.



I have a "crime scene cleanup" on my Home Owners Insurance Policy. I used to worry about having to clean up all the blood and broken glass. No more. Just do your thing and then call State Farm. They will even put plywood over the holes for you. Perfect?

I need to ask if they have psychiatric therapy though. Likely you will need it at some point and  may suffer from Delayed Combat Syndrome? It's a real thing and something MANY Americans get because doing the "right thing" is so violent and seemingly surreal.

A hand gun is more of a a mobile personal device. Make sure you have a full carry permit.


Now here's the thing I don't like about recommending a firearm. Just because you can shoot 98 or 99 out of 100 at a paper or deer target, doesn't mean you have training for a confrontational situation.

This could  wind up being like a 16 year old getting a 200mph Lamborghini and thinking he can handle it.  He can't. You need to think about that seriously.

It's a difficult subject.

[deathsled]

This is all valuable information for me and I thank all of you.  I will go to the shooting range tomorrow and apply for a FOID card to start the process. I had a FOID card a long time ago but never made the entry into buying a gun.  I have an 11 year old son (though he's in Germany) so it is a concern if/ when he comes to visit.  I could always take it apart or put it in a safe.  I will need to practice quite a bit with it to become proficient.  I have no doubt he would love to shoot a gun.  No chance of that happening in the Fatherland for him.  I was a great shot with a pellet rifle (Weirauch match target rifle) when I was a teenager but not so good with a pellet pistol.  I shot a variety of guns while at Southern Illinois University for law school.  (A bit of a culture shock coming from Toronto) and I remember shooting 44 magnum 357 45 and 9 mm.  Fellow law student that had us out shooting was playing with the slide bar on the 45 and it went off accidentally in his hand and fell to the ground which was a bit of a surprise for me.  I sort of steered clear of guns after that.  But the interest is still there.  More for home protection than anything else.  There is conceal and carry here but every business and building has the no gun sign in Chicagoland so it becomes a crime if caught on premises with a concealed firearm.  But if we degenerate into anarchy (which I don't think will happen but you never know) then that law is thrown out the window along with all the others until order is restored. 

[Side-Oilers]

Kimber 1911 45acp. Feels just right and VERY accurate!! Mike G.

+1 on the Kimber 1911 .45ACP.   Mine shoots great too.  Fits my hand well and is easy to deploy.

[6s2020]

When i first saw this post headline i thought it must be from either "Coral the Viper Snake" or "Tony the Florida Hurricane"

But Randy.....OK

So it's turned to Gun Choice.

Glocks, Mp5s, 1911s, all good choices

Or 140 year old classics, an't that what we about.

Average shooter (me) practice stage 23 on target shots in 27 seconds, with 4 guns = a lot of dead perps.

BTW a fast shooter can do that in 12 seconds.

Anyway we are in the lounge.

Video clip below...

[Bill]

Sign I'm tempted to put up in my yard:

The locks on this home are not to protect me from you, but protect you from me 

I never post online what I may, or may not have within the confines of my legal domicile.

I'll leave it at that

[kjspeed]

There is conceal and carry here but every business and building has the no gun sign in Chicagoland so it becomes a crime if caught on premises with a concealed firearm.

In Florida (and yes, every state has their own gun laws so check before travelling) carrying concealed in a store that posts a sign is not illegal. Store owners can ask you to leave and/or not come back, but if you're carrying concealed they will never know unless you are forced to use your weapon in which case they may actually thank you. The State does list places that you aren't allowed to carry such as a court house, school, a place of nuisance and it's the only state that prohibits carrying a weapon in an airport terminal.

Another resource is a four part series starting on October 18, 2019 from Mike Adams. Good info.

[The Going Thing]

Has it seemed strange to you, as it has to me, that when you go into a Home Depot type store...and notice that all of the padlocks are locked up behind a padlocked cage? It's been that way out here in SoCal for many years.

I once asked a store clerk if he thought it ironic that they have to lock-up the locks from being stolen by people who want locks to lock-up their own stuff that might get stolen by other thieves.   He didn't get the irony, and just looked at me like I had three heads.

Insightful and humorous observation. I am awfully tempted to buy a gun for added safety. Been looking at Walther pps m2 9mm. https://www.gunbuyer.com/walther-pps-m2-black-9mm-3-2-2805961-wal2805961-gb.html


I think I am asking for trouble. Don't own any guns. Used to own pellet rifles in Canada but never a firearm.

Since you opened this can of worms Richard, I'll give you my two cents worth. You first have to ask yourself the question - Why? Since I'll assume the answer is for personal protection, the next question to ask yourself - Am I prepared to use lethal force if necessary? If not, choose a non-lethal self defense option. If your answer is yes, then determine when and where you will arm yourself. Can you get a concealed weapons permit in your state? Or can you carry without a permit in your vehicle? Or will it be used exclusively at home? If you carry there are a ton of great carry handguns out there to choose from. If possible, go to a local range that lets you rent them or try them before you buy. Then, as Chris and others have said, practice with it. A lot.

If you just want home defense I would opt for a shotgun. Many makes and models will fit the bill. Do you have any Rural King stores near you? Ours has about the best prices of any gun stores around. RKGuns.com has that same gun for $299.97 with no transfer fee if you pick up at RK. Good luck!

You must have taken crazy uncle Joe's advice.  Shotguns are never advisable for home defense. They are used with teams for BREACHING weapons.   I taught CQB and my first retirement was from the CHP.  If you want an example of why you never use a shotgun try making corners and going through doorways with a broom. You'll understand my point quickly. Especially in older homes with 24 and 32" doors. You'll wind up getting it taken away from you by the perp and used on you. Handguns and SBR's are always advised. Another consideration is munitions and how they penetrate when you buy specifically for home defense. NEVER buy cheap firearms. I own two shotguns. One is a Browning I use for skeet, the other is a Benelli Super 90 with a 11" breaching barrel.  They are an NFA weapon and require a tax stamp. Some states will not allow ownership of automatic or short barreled weapons. If you aren't willing to use lethal force to protect your family, you're a coward.  Criminals don't care about your or your family's life and I have seen more than one person with their brains splattered on an ATM for a 20.00 dollar bill. One 19 year old man for five dollars. I was on duty during the 92 riots by the way.  If you waited until this juncture to buy a firearm you're not going to find much out there worthwhile.
Now we have the Chinese funded communist anarchist destroying small business and all while the economy is devastated by a deliberate act from a foreign hostile government. Joy!


There are no transfer fees. All weapons through a dealer require background checks though the DOJ, regardless of state of residence.

[2112]

Sign I'm tempted to put up in my yard:

The locks on this home are not to protect me from you, but protect you from me 

I never post online what I may, or may not have within the confines of my legal domicile.

I'll leave it at that

Reminded me of this;

[gt350hr]

When a home intruder breaks into your house, your instinct and intention is to Kill, not maim or wound because then you will have a LOOONG road ahead of you in court that can drag on for many months, and you may not win!!! Yes, that's exactly right.

      As my departed grandmother would say:  "dead men tell no tales"!, so aim, and make your shots count!       
   
       Make sure no one is filming you when your killing. That is what started this whole thing.
      Scott.