Author Topic: Concours rule change  (Read 1328 times)

acman63

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Concours rule change
« on: March 13, 2018, 10:53:13 AM »
SAAC  Concours update in rules

We have a few changes made by unanimous consent of the judging team and the SAAC  higher ups ,

1   Starting with this years show at Sonoma and going forward we will no longer accept a Premier  class car for judging if the color has been changed.  The car will automatically be put in  SAAC Concours

2    If a car is entered in SAAC Concours and has had the color changed it will not be eligible  for a gold award and will automatically  start judging as a silver and go from there.

3   We also have decided to change the percentages of points needed for awards to match the higher standards of MCA mail so theres no conflict.  Its a tiny change  going to 97%  to achieve gold,  94%  to achieve silver  and 91 %  to achieve bronze .  This change will be reflected in the concours guidelines and judging sheets.

We feel these changes were necessary to protect the Marque  and the high standards of SAAC Judging and will be valid with this years convention
SAAC Concours Chairman

Owner Shelby Parts and Restoration Since 1977

SAAC original first year member

Doug C

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Re: Concours rule change
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2018, 11:37:45 AM »
We also have decided to change the percentages of points needed for awards to match the higher standards of MCA mail so theres no conflict.   

This makes perfect sense to me -

tesgt350

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Re: Concours rule change
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2018, 12:35:49 PM »
How can a Car that has been repainted a different color from Factory be Concours?  Even a Car that was painted back the same color from Factory but Clear Coated shouldn't be in Concours.  Concours is Cars that are 100% Factory Correct.

R Code

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Re: Concours rule change
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2018, 12:54:40 PM »
How can a Car that has been repainted a different color from Factory be Concours?  Even a Car that was painted back the same color from Factory but Clear Coated shouldn't be in Concours.  Concours is Cars that are 100% Factory Correct.

Doing the math, it looks like concours awards are for cars that are at least 91% factory correct.
- Chris

Bob Gaines

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Re: Concours rule change
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2018, 01:02:25 PM »
How can a Car that has been repainted a different color from Factory be Concours?  Even a Car that was painted back the same color from Factory but Clear Coated shouldn't be in Concours.  Concours is Cars that are 100% Factory Correct.
The color change was a loop hole that was eliminated. You would be surprised at how much we try and spell out what is expected and yet still have cars that enter that are too far off the at least 91% mark .  It is volunteer time for the judges and staff so it is expected that a car entered in concours be of a caliper that would be able to get to at least one of the award levels. Otherwise you would have everyone and their brother entering just for a evaluation check list regardless of restored level. It is a terrible feeling to have to tell someone that their car is too far off the mark to be in the concours venue and do it in a way that is respectful and sensitive . We want to help preserve the Marque by offering help in education to others in that effort which is why people volunteer their time. We can do that in the concours venue and also along with others by participating helping outside the concours venue. People being helpful to each other on this forum is a good example.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

BGlover67

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Re: Concours rule change
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2018, 01:37:56 PM »
Hard to believe anyone would submit a car for judging that was a color change either way.  Can I ask, how many points deduction is a non original color repaint anyway? 
Thanks,
Brian Glover
SAAC Carolina's Northern Representative
Current Caretaker of No. 26, an Early Dark Moss Green GT350.

JD

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Re: Concours rule change
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2018, 01:48:50 PM »
30 points if I remember correctly

acman63

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Re: Concours rule change
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2018, 01:52:36 PM »
Hard to believe anyone would submit a car for judging that was a color change either way.  Can I ask, how many points deduction is a non original color repaint anyway?


Going forward we wont put an exact point deduction on a color change since theres a sliding scale with more points for some cars than others.  It will just be eliminated from Gold and the best it can get will be a silver
SAAC Concours Chairman

Owner Shelby Parts and Restoration Since 1977

SAAC original first year member

mk31755

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Re: Concours rule change
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2018, 02:10:53 PM »
it is interesting to note that the concours standards can be so different for different makes and models of cars.  I am in agreement that if you are going to show your car in concours then it needs to be restored to it's particular original state, including exterior color.  For instance, in Austin Healeys,  they have written concours guidelines.  They allow original color changes,  road worthy tires, and  upgraded valve covers and coils without deductions.  The nicest part is the WRITTEN guidelines.  That way the standards are shared by all, not just the elite few who have done countless restorations.  Why is it we don't have written guidelines?

acman63

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Re: Concours rule change
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2018, 02:51:16 PM »
it is interesting to note that the concours standards can be so different for different makes and models of cars.  I am in agreement that if you are going to show your car in concours then it needs to be restored to it's particular original state, including exterior color.  For instance, in Austin Healeys,  they have written concours guidelines.  They allow original color changes,  road worthy tires, and  upgraded valve covers and coils without deductions.  The nicest part is the WRITTEN guidelines.  That way the standards are shared by all, not just the elite few who have done countless restorations.  Why is it we don't have written guidelines?

anyone that wants to see judging sheets from previous years is welcome to email me and Ill send one

as for actual guidelines, we have 7 different classes we judge and the cars in each class have many running changes in parts and finishes  and since theres no EXACT time frame on some of the changes we have to leave that to the judging team.  Case in point  65 GT350s  used three different hood configurations  , 3 different steering wheels, a couple different color variations on the bottom primer. etc  and that just 562 cars  we have only approximation when the changes occurred
SAAC Concours Chairman

Owner Shelby Parts and Restoration Since 1977

SAAC original first year member

Bigfoot

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Re: Concours rule change
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2018, 05:31:25 PM »
How can a Car that has been repainted a different color from Factory be Concours?  Even a Car that was painted back the same color from Factory but Clear Coated shouldn't be in Concours.  Concours is Cars that are 100% Factory Correct.

I donít think a clear coat on an otherwise perfect car should matter. And it never has btw.
If the judges want to deduct for that then maybe treated like non confirming exhaust or shifter boot etc. we cant go down the road or clear vs not.
Why?
I tell you...
Because take a look a the Wimbledon  white cars.
Are they all the same color?........
RIP KIWI
RIP KIWI

polyglas

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Re: Concours rule change
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2018, 06:06:14 PM »
How can a Car that has been repainted a different color from Factory be Concours?  Even a Car that was painted back the same color from Factory but Clear Coated shouldn't be in Concours.  Concours is Cars that are 100% Factory Correct.

I donít think a clear coat on an otherwise perfect car should matter. And it never has btw.
If the judges want to deduct for that then maybe treated like non confirming exhaust or shifter boot etc. we cant go down the road or clear vs not.
Why?
I tell you...
Because take a look a the Wimbledon  white cars.
Are they all the same color?........


 B/C paint is not an issue if applied in a manner to replicate factory appearing orange peel. The desired appearance can be achieved with single stage or B/C by skilled painters. Not everyone likes orange peel or concours in general, its a choice.

caspian65

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Re: Concours rule change
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2018, 06:46:05 PM »
First choice in doing a correct restoration should be single stage, but there are many reasons a shop or owner may choose to go with BC/CC.  On a T-bred/Premiere car, it's more critical that the paint system be single stage, but otherwise, if it appears correct as Bob P mentioned, I don't see any issues in Concours.  We're not going to ask owners to rub an area of paint to see if color comes up, we will simply judge them as presented.  The only time BC/CC becomes a big issue is when there has been extensive 'cut and buff', which removes all orange peel.
Charles Turner
MCA/SAAC Judge

tesgt350

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Re: Concours rule change
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2018, 08:37:51 PM »
It's just that when I hear the word " Concours" I think "Like Factory" not "Like Factory BUT Not Really".  If your Car was Green when it left the Factory and it's now Red, it should NOT be in a  Concours Class, same for Clear Coat.  If your Car came with a 4 Speed and it now has an Automatic, it should not be in a  Concours Class.   

Rbwiii

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Re: Concours rule change
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2018, 10:15:13 PM »
How can a Car that has been repainted a different color from Factory be Concours?  Even a Car that was painted back the same color from Factory but Clear Coated shouldn't be in Concours.  Concours is Cars that are 100% Factory Correct.

I donít think a clear coat on an otherwise perfect car should matter. And it never has btw.
If the judges want to deduct for that then maybe treated like non confirming exhaust or shifter boot etc. we cant go down the road or clear vs not.
Why?

I tell you...
Because take a look a the Wimbledon  white cars.
Are they all the same color?........

+1