Author Topic: Looking for a little help regarding brakes  (Read 1053 times)

Royce Peterson

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Re: Looking for a little help regarding brakes
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2020, 08:39:32 AM »
Make sure the bleeder screws on the calipers face to the rear. Classic mistake is to swap the calipers left - right which results in the bleeders pointing up and gives a space for trapped air.

The other classic mistake is not adjusting the rear shoes properly. They need to be tight enough that they drag slightly when the wheel is rotated after the first application.

As mentioned you seem to have a drum brake distribution block. Isn't the proportioning valve and residual valve contained in the MC in 71? Asking because I don't know.

Hello Pete
Hopefully the caliper photo and engine eye candy are below - using smart phone vs laptop
1968 Cougar XR-7 GT-E 427 Side Oiler C6 3.50 Detroit Locker
1968 1/2 Cougar XR-7 428CJ Ram Air C6 3.91 Traction Lock

nvr-enuf

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Re: Looking for a little help regarding brakes
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2020, 10:17:51 AM »
Hello everyone - thanks for the reply. 
I can confirm the bleeders in the front calipers are pointed up and towards the rear of the car (correct for bleeding from my understanding)
While the car has front disks, very well could have been a drum brake car - when I researched the car did start out as a 302 car but no knowledge or confirmation on original car brake set up.
New master will arrive today, this was ordered as a front disk brake car, it could be my current master is bypassing and / or the master is meant for a drum brake car
Distribution block - Thanks for confirming a front drum brake car, after installing the new master, I will see how the brakes are.  If still poor, I will look into the correct dist block for a disk brake car.
Thanks everyone

Dan353

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Re: Looking for a little help regarding brakes
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2020, 05:44:36 PM »
Your going to need a proportioning valve also to balance the front and rear.  Discs use a different amount of fluid compare to drum brakes.  You can try Mac’s for a stock parts or you can use an adjustable proportion valve from an after market brake supplier like Bear brakes

Dan

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The Going Thing

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Re: Looking for a little help regarding brakes
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2020, 12:37:58 PM »
Ford didn't use a proportioning valve either.
They use a residual valve. It holds 3 psi to the rear drums.
NPD offers residual valves. Even aftermarket in 3 psi and 10 psi for rear disc. If you can do a double flair you can do this yourself.

Dan353

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Re: Looking for a little help regarding brakes
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2020, 04:43:38 PM »
Well if your going to be like that. why does the 1969 shop manual call it a proportioning valve?  maybe on the earlier years they used a residual valve but clearly in 1969 they used a proportioning valve. See photo’s taken of 1969 shop manual for Cougar and Mustang.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 07:23:26 PM by Dan353 »

Bob Gaines

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Re: Looking for a little help regarding brakes
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2020, 05:17:28 PM »
Well if your going to be like that. why does the 1969 shop manual call it a proportioning valve?  maybe on the earlier years they used a residual valve but clearly in 1969 they used a proportioning valve. See photo’s taken of 1969 shop manual for Cougar and Mustang.
It was referred to as a proportioning valve in 65/66 too. The 67 unit was virtually identical (enough difference to warrant a different engineering number)to the 68-70 proportioning valve .
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

The Going Thing

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Re: Looking for a little help regarding brakes
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2020, 12:17:02 AM »
It's also called a residual valve by Ford. It does not function as a traditional proportioning valve as it doesn't control brake bias front to rear.  I though it was a proportioning as well.
Until I found out what it did.

Royce Peterson

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Re: Looking for a little help regarding brakes
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2020, 11:46:16 AM »
They need to be pointed to the rear, not up. If they are pointed up that's the problem.

Hello everyone - thanks for the reply. 
I can confirm the bleeders in the front calipers are pointed up and towards the rear of the car (correct for bleeding from my understanding)
While the car has front disks, very well could have been a drum brake car - when I researched the car did start out as a 302 car but no knowledge or confirmation on original car brake set up.
New master will arrive today, this was ordered as a front disk brake car, it could be my current master is bypassing and / or the master is meant for a drum brake car
Distribution block - Thanks for confirming a front drum brake car, after installing the new master, I will see how the brakes are.  If still poor, I will look into the correct dist block for a disk brake car.
Thanks everyone
1968 Cougar XR-7 GT-E 427 Side Oiler C6 3.50 Detroit Locker
1968 1/2 Cougar XR-7 428CJ Ram Air C6 3.91 Traction Lock

Dan353

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Re: Looking for a little help regarding brakes
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2020, 06:56:58 PM »
Found this distribution block and proportioning valve (residual valve) all in one. From NPD  their part number is 2B091-20AA says it fits 1964-1971 FAIRLANE FAIRLANE, TORINO, 70 1/2 FALCON.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 07:05:29 PM by Dan353 »

The Going Thing

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Re: Looking for a little help regarding brakes
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2020, 09:08:48 PM »
That one is complete.  You may have to change the line fittings. They are different with drum-disc cars.

cj750

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Re: Looking for a little help regarding brakes
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2020, 11:36:40 AM »
Hello everyone - thanks for the reply. 
I can confirm the bleeders in the front calipers are pointed up and towards the rear of the car (correct for bleeding from my understanding)


As Royce noted, they should not be pointed up. Has this been addressed, and what was the result?

Every post I make comes with an implied request for corrections. I'm here to learn.

Dan353

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Re: Looking for a little help regarding brakes
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2020, 05:39:19 PM »
It seems what is called a proportioning valve might do both proportioning and act as a residual valve.   Check out this video  yes I know he’s talking about mopars but he does Ford brake parts too

https://youtu.be/qzUk8W1-2pw

Royce Peterson

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Re: Looking for a little help regarding brakes
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2020, 06:33:25 PM »
Not possible because residual valves are for disc brakes. A residual valve will be in both the front and rear master cylinder ports if a car has four wheel disc brakes. Residual valves are not used with drum brakes so it's really clear cut.

A proportioning valve - as Ford always calls it - is used in the rear drum brake circuit on Shelbys and Mustangs. A Proportioning valve restricts flow towards the rear drum so it does not lock up. It allows unrestricted flow back to the master cylinder, so it would not maintain any residual pressure whatsoever.

Never owned or worked on any Mopars. But I often read Mopar Action because I truly love the writings of Richard Ehrenburg (SAE).

It seems what is called a proportioning valve might do both proportioning and act as a residual valve.   Check out this video  yes I know he’s talking about mopars but he does Ford brake parts too

https://youtu.be/qzUk8W1-2pw
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 09:02:35 AM by Royce Peterson »
1968 Cougar XR-7 GT-E 427 Side Oiler C6 3.50 Detroit Locker
1968 1/2 Cougar XR-7 428CJ Ram Air C6 3.91 Traction Lock

Dan353

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Re: Looking for a little help regarding brakes
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2020, 07:25:15 PM »
  I’m no expert so educate me.  How about posting some references,articles,videos etc... so that I may get a better understanding

Dan

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Re: Looking for a little help regarding brakes
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2020, 10:57:12 PM »
Mod Note - this thread has been "sanitized" to keep it technical and on topic.