Is restoring a car to the standards of their day serving the car—or not?

[Tinface]

My father was a bodyman. He started a shop in Rogue River Oregon 1972. Because I loved cars and him and he me I worked there from high school on until I left at age 22 then painted car professionally until age 29 when I went to college, then on to law school and a new career.

When I purchase a car—I want original paint—thus when I decided to purchase a Shelby Mustang, a GT350, I wanted a car that had as much of the original original paint as I could find. This year (2019–just in case the server is backed up this time—hopefully highly reliable cloud service) Stephen Becker brokered the sale of 6S2148 between myself and Bill DenBeste; 6S2148 has—for the most part—original paint. I personally consider it an interesting to point to ponder: why would a person who spent 12 years in the automobile refinishing profession only settle for a vehicle with almost all original paint? 

So how and why am I writing this?

1) First, how: to establish that I had experience painting, start to finish in automotive refinishing,
2) Second to point out interesting differences between 6S2148 and the cars redone to show car levels,
3) Third to explore why people prefer original paint or would rather have a car with refinishing materials and expertise that incorporate modern innovations in both areas:
4) Take the pulse of the real Shelby experts—guys who have been preserving these important cars for decades, and continue to do so, to get their views.

Caveat one (1) My new friends—please understand I certainly love the fact that the procedures for painting these cars have evolved with the profession of refinishing in terms of materials and expertise. However, that is one way to preserve these cars. Without judgement, there is an alternative way: that is to restore them back to the standards of the day when they were built.

It's interesting for me to study the paint on 6S2148. When I do, it curious to me, but totally understandable, for example—that the blue stripes that came stock on my car—are so harsh in terms of their appliacation: the edges for example—there was no nice striping tapes by 3M back then, which pulled off the base paint— in nice clean lines; clean crisp lines I see on all the restored cars—the original tape lines are typical of the 3M tape products I used. Paper tape lines that leave lines that are by no means crisp, clean, lines.

Thesis: is restoring a car to the standards of the day they were built serving the car? Or is it a disservice to the car and better to restore these cars to the present day standards?

[Greg]

Tin,  Everyone has their desire and this isn't a service or dis-service to the car.  You do realize the car isn't human and doesn't care right  (I struggle with this as well sometimes).  It boils down to investment and what the owner wants.  There are some that will buy a survior type car, pull the engine, trans and suspension and race it.  Some will take an original car and make it better to them because the paint is tired and they want a car that looks perfect (or better) from the day it was on the lot.  It depends on what your goals are and what YOU want from the hobby.

Is your struggle that your original paint is tired and your wondering if you need to get it repainted?  If that is your quandry, remember its only original once and I personally wouldn't touch it but you will have to explain to everyone that it is original paint and your not just a "lazy" owner.  If I were you and wanted a higher paint quality car, I would find another one that has been restored and sell or trade 2148. 

There is a crowd for all types.  Like Rat Rods, they make my skin crawl and IMO are the biggest piece of junks out there.

[427heaven]

I will jump in on this discussion because I have a little experience with the emotions you are experiencing. I have had many cars over the years that I needed to make a decision with. Your opinions may vary from mine but I prefer excellence for most parts of a car. I enjoy having a day 2 build because that's the way we did back in the day. Having a few more coins than when I was  teenager allows me to have a nicer paint job or better engine then back in my youth. I REALLY don't like vintage worn out paint,engines,upholstery, etc. For me a stunning restoration to better then new is what I prefer,but some cars like my 63 split window original survivor car I felt I had to leave it alone,it pained me more then words could describe to leave it alone but I did against my better judgement. So I guess everyone has that road to cross with different cars, but most look and drive better then they did 50 years ago with a new restoration. Just my 2 cents.

[KR Convertible]

Tin,

Are you taking your car to SAAC 43?

If you do,  I think you will be surprised by the attention that original paint gets.  I took my restored GT500 convertible to SAAC 41 and it barely got a second glance.  The car across the aisle from it got all the attention.  It was pretty much the same car in red, but unrestored, owned by "Poor Ron" here on the forum.  There was a crowd around that car all day, including me.

Paul

[2112]

Interesting topic.

Back when these cars were coveted for their performance and appearance and investment issues were not really a concern like they are today, owners who loved and enjoyed their cars would more than likely paint a car to make it as nice as possible. One reason original is rare.

When a car is completely original paint, you know for sure that it was never wrecked.

When it is partly original, you know some panels are undamaged but also something happened to require painting some of the car.

I have a car (non-Shelby)like yours. The new paint is way better than the original. I like seeing that the car was undamaged, but also find myself wishing the previous owner just made the whole car as nice as the repainted part.

[mark p]

Tin,  Everyone has their desire...   It depends on what your goals are and what YOU want from the hobby.

Is your struggle that your original paint is tired and your wondering if you need to get it repainted?  If that is your quandry, remember its only original once and I personally wouldn't touch it but you will have to explain to everyone that it is original paint and your not just a "lazy" owner.  If I were you and wanted a higher paint quality car, I would find another one that has been restored and sell or trade 2148. 

+1
In today's world, originality seems to be "worth more" to many - just look at the "Barn Find" craze, where a dirty, unkempt, non-running car brings as much [or more] $$ vs a nicely restored example.
Dr Simeone wrote an entire book about Preservation - http://www.simeonemuseum.org/product/stewardship-historically-important-automobiles
At the end of the day, it is all about what YOU want. Good luck 

[Bigfoot]

I'd keep the paint where it is as it is.
But it's ur car.

[2112]

I get the preservation thing when the car is like 90% original.

When it is a mixed bag, I don't see how having uniform, beautiful paint hurts in desirability. JMHO  🤔

[shelbydoug]

The purpose of "Concourse" is to historically preserve or represent the cars historically accurately.


Your description of the paint on your car is a PERFECT representation of why they should be valued.



There isn't anything wrong with a super modern paint finish except for one thing, that's not historically correct.

My personal opinion is that an accurate original finish should be given an insurmountable points advantage in that category.

The judges will tell you that the subject is settled, that there is a survivor category for cars like this, but the reality is that it is still an ongoing debate and "it ain't over yet". 


I am for sure going to be publicly reprimanded about this comment and it will be emphasized that this is just my opinion. I agree. These posts are all OPINIONS. Even dissenting ones.

[Shelby_r_b]

I get the preservation thing when the car is like 90% original.

When it is a mixed bag, I don't see how having uniform, beautiful paint hurts in desirability. JMHO  🤔

+1

I think that an original car should be left original...as long as it is in good shape.  I know that "good shape" is a relative term.  However, I've seen original cars that looked...well, original.  Crappy paint, rust under the hood, leaks, etc.  To me, it really depends on the condition as well as the originality.  I personally have no desire to drive a crappy looking car that is "original".  Driving an original, nice survivor...absolutely!  And, I LOVE a completely restored, pristine car as well.

I think it comes down to preference, as well as the overall condition of originality.  And, if it's not very original, I would restore to better than original.

Just my 2 cents. 

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Restoring a car to day one does honor to the car. Restoring to the standards of today honors the market and owners pocketbook at sale time.

[2112]

The purpose of "Concourse" is to historically preserve or represent the cars historically accurately.


Your description of the paint on your car is a PERFECT representation of why they should be valued.



There isn't anything wrong with a super modern paint finish except for one thing, that's not historically correct.

My personal opinion is that an accurate original finish should be given an insurmountable points advantage in that category.

The judges will tell you that the subject is settled, that there is a survivor category for cars like this, but the reality is that it is still an ongoing debate and "it ain't over yet". 


I am for sure going to be publicly reprimanded about this comment and it will be emphasized that this is just my opinion. I agree. These posts are all OPINIONS. Even dissenting ones.

Begs the question. Does every restored car have to gunning for points in competition?

[Bigfoot]

^^
We forget that most cars restored today will never see judging.
Just cruising.
Like show dogs.

[jguyer]

Tin,

Are you taking your car to SAAC 43?

If you do,  I think you will be surprised by the attention that original paint gets.  I took my restored GT500 convertible to SAAC 41 and it barely got a second glance.  The car across the aisle from it got all the attention.  It was pretty much the same car in red, but unrestored, owned by "Poor Ron" here on the forum.  There was a crowd around that car all day, including me.

Paul

You may be right, I have several pictures of poor ron's car. I looked through the rest and couldn't find another red '68 convertible. Since I have a KR convertible, I usually pay attention to them.

Reread post, "same car in red".



Is this it?

[Tinface]

Tin,

Are you taking your car to SAAC 43?

If you do,  I think you will be surprised by the attention that original paint gets.  I took my restored GT500 convertible to SAAC 41 and it barely got a second glance.  The car across the aisle from it got all the attention.  It was pretty much the same car in red, but unrestored, owned by "Poor Ron" here on the forum.  There was a crowd around that car all day, including me.

Paul

Hey Paul,

I'll be there. So will 6s2148. For all of it including the track days. I'm really looking forward to it!

I won't be changing any of the paint as far as I can foresee. I'll leave all that to the next care taker to wrestle with. My decision is made. But is sure am looking forward to seeing all of those beautiful like new Shelby's and meeting all of you like minded people.

Tin

Tin