Author Topic: Anyone else see the pictures of the supposed 99 point car in for sale section  (Read 1977 times)

J_Speegle

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chris NOS - It appears that the radiator support does have a hole for the prop rod

............... if you see something that is not correct, please point it out. thanks in advance, Ron Miller

Hi Ron

So just starting from the grill in the lower picture

- Horn mounting hardware would have been plated phosphate and oil not painted black
- Horns would have been painted semi-gloss back after they were assembled not painted before with the rivets and gaskets finished differently
- Front fender bolts would have been replaced with the hood bumpers that would have been removed when the hood pins were installed leaving a mark/depression in the fender paint where the bolt had originally been located.
- Paint marks/writing show would have been under the black paint applied to the bare sheet metal and painted over when the engine compartment was painted black

That's it for now
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 05:20:51 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle- Mustang & Shelby detail collector, ConcoursMustang.com babysitter :) and Judge

Bob Gaines

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To add on to the list of things already mentioned and seen from the pictures posted on the SAAC forum ad and not the YouTube videos and in the context for SAAC concours or MCA trailered expectations, hoods pins wrong style,brake master cylinder and lid were painted black ,should have radio resistance plug wires not SX. It is hard to tell because of resolution but it looks like driver side plug wires are indexed incorrectly, poor version of hipo air cleaner lid sticker, typically 65 had the straight sticker in the back not the curved,distributor is typically indexed so that clip is almost straight forward when timed correctly. It looks like it is a couple teeth off, wrong radiator -should be G2 not M2,heater hose routing is out of the ordinary,no sealant on firewall,what little that can be seen in the pictures of the carb indicate wrong hardware on carb accelerator pump lever. On the underside -unusual assemblyline paint identification marks on trans mount ,e brake equalizer ,tip of side exhaust . It is better to not put anything at all rather then copy a incorrect marking. In concours you are not deducted for if marks are not there because they were not there on every car. However there is deduction for incorrect marks. There is lack of body color overspray on floor pans .What with 60's assemblyline paint gun spray volume when the rockers were painted would have laid down significantly more body color on the pans. As mentioned before the pinch weld black out is missing but so is the corresponding black overspray on the floor pans from the same process.The floor pan metal plugs are installed upside down,The pinion shield should be bare steel not painted black, the rebound bumper brackets above the axle tube are the wrong finish plus they are missing the welding blackout paint,wrong clamps on fuel sender fuel line. These things are all that really stand out to me . There may be things that stand out differently to others . The issues I and others have mentioned would have to be corrected to get on a path to the 99 out of 100 car claim. There are other issues not mentioned here but seen in the You Tube video . Also FYI although the paint looks shiny and is hard to evaluate from the pictures alone the claimed just like the factory is contradicted by the fact that it is polished which makes it other then factory and there would be a deduction if not orange peel like factory paint . Also if in person the paint can be determined to be  base coat clear coat and not single stage like factory then that is another issue. You might like the slick look better and that is fine just understand you can't make the claim it is like factory and be accurate.  These issues are those that can be seen from the pictures so keep in mind if the same ratio of incorrect items are in areas not seen in the pictures then there is even more work to be done. Not a undo-able job . It would have been more prudent to have asked for evaluation from this forum prior to making the unfounded claims .We would rather see you succeed then to fail . It helps everyone when another successfully restored car gets done right to preserve the Marque .Best of luck with the sale.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

CharlesTurner

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If sincere about making the car better, share the pictures.  The ones in the for sale ad were extremely low resolution.
Charles Turner
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Greg

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Yes I owned Ford Power Parts.  If anyone notices something that is incorrectly done or incorrect part I would appreciate knowing exactly what it is. The $500 receipt from the third owners was done for DMV purposes to save on sales tax. He paid $7500 for the car and an extra $1k for the 8v intake, Cobra valve covers and extra spare parts. This car has not been judged at a Shelby event, this is my opinion and others that have seen the car. I read your comments, so I put a note on the ad to clarify this.  The main reason I mentioned the corrections to the SAAC registry is the first person that was very interested in the car said NO because of what he read in the registry and he (incorrectly) thought that the stripe overspray in the door jambs was not the way that Shelby did it and therefore the restoration shop did not know what they were doing. I have approximately 300 pictures of this car and each engine part and no one from this ad has asked to see them yet. Bob,  I DO NOT and have NEVER claimed to be a Shelby expert. I DO claim to be an expert on Ford V8 1960's engines especially the FE series which I have designed and manufactured parts on a shoestring budget better than gigantic aftermarket companies. I am trying to be 100% transparent, so again, if you see something that is not correct, please point it out. thanks in advance, Ron Miller 

Ron first, you have a really nice car and being that you are open, the folks here can provide information to get it to as high a level as it can achieve.  Please don't make the mistake some folks make by getting offended and looking at the comments as criticism or an attack, I assure you it is not.  Most of the experts here want to see every car achieve its maximum potential so my advice is to listen, appreciate the points and correct where you feasibly can.  I wish you the best with the sale, someone will get a very nice car!
Shelby's and Fords from Day 1

69mach351w

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Yes I owned Ford Power Parts.  If anyone notices something that is incorrectly done or incorrect part I would appreciate knowing exactly what it is. The $500 receipt from the third owners was done for DMV purposes to save on sales tax. He paid $7500 for the car and an extra $1k for the 8v intake, Cobra valve covers and extra spare parts. This car has not been judged at a Shelby event, this is my opinion and others that have seen the car. I read your comments, so I put a note on the ad to clarify this.  The main reason I mentioned the corrections to the SAAC registry is the first person that was very interested in the car said NO because of what he read in the registry and he (incorrectly) thought that the stripe overspray in the door jambs was not the way that Shelby did it and therefore the restoration shop did not know what they were doing. I have approximately 300 pictures of this car and each engine part and no one from this ad has asked to see them yet. Bob,  I DO NOT and have NEVER claimed to be a Shelby expert. I DO claim to be an expert on Ford V8 1960's engines especially the FE series which I have designed and manufactured parts on a shoestring budget better than gigantic aftermarket companies. I am trying to be 100% transparent, so again, if you see something that is not correct, please point it out. thanks in advance, Ron Miller
Very, Very Well Said !!

8T03S1425

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That's a beautiful car, as shown. I'd love to own it, but it's way out of my price range. I would expect that a potential buyer, who had the wherewithal to buy it, would take the advice, often offered on this forum, to pay for a pre-sale inspection to make sure their money is properly spent.

This thread shows that the SAAC Forum and Club members, judges, and restorers, are extremely generous with supporting regular members and passersby. Where else could the seller of a $575,000 car come to ask for advice, that would be known by an extremely small percentage of people. I wish that I could find forums of doctors, lawyers, and financial advisors that were as generous with their knowledge.

Best wishes to both buyer and seller. I hope this car can serve as a benchmark for others in the perpetual pursuit of the perfected pony. Alliteration intended.

Steve
I have owned 8T03S-01425 since 06/76.
I owned 6S2295 in 1973 & ‘74.

gt350hr

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I am wondering it is the same Ron Miller that used to be Ford Power parts?

Winner winner , chicken dinner. Changed from selling parts to selling cars. Certainly NOT a '65 Shelby expert. If he was he wouldn't take pictures of incorrect hood pins , fabbed up H pipe etc. And he should know that a FRONT mounted battery is MORE RARE than a trunk mount.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 04:53:33 PM by gt350hr »
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

SBCARGUY

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I would love to see him get anywhere near his "asking price"  8)

Greg

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I would love to see him get anywhere near his "asking price"  8)

+1
Shelby's and Fords from Day 1

gbart14

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Nice car, Ron. I am not trying to stir up controversy with those who know the concours details but I have seen lesser cars in museums with rave reviews. Gold cap on fruit jar master cylinder, springs on hood plus a hood prop, incorrect headers, etc. These photos are of 5S238 up here in Oregon at Word of Speed museum before it closed. FYI, my 5S243 did not have any provision on the radiator support for a hood prop. Maybe it was deleted when a new radiator support was installed after a front end hit?
SAAC Northwest President, current - 5S243 plus 65 Mustang coupe track car plus 2016 GT350, past 6S286

Bob Gaines

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Nice car, Ron. I am not trying to stir up controversy with those who know the concours details but I have seen lesser cars in museums with rave reviews. Gold cap on fruit jar master cylinder, springs on hood plus a hood prop, incorrect headers, etc. These photos are of 5S238 up here in Oregon at Word of Speed museum before it closed. FYI, my 5S243 did not have any provision on the radiator support for a hood prop. Maybe it was deleted when a new radiator support was installed after a front end hit?
Your post reads like you may have missed the point or didn't read the reason for the thread. No disputing that the car looks great. The issue is when a seller makes a claim of a near perfect historical restoration and award winning and it is not . Not to say it couldn't win in the future if ever entered in a Shelby venue. Hopefully constructive critique that the seller (I want to remind) ASKED FOR will help him on the way to making the restoration more historically correct. We all win if we help him try and attain his goal of better restoration and selling price.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

gbart14

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Fully agree!
SAAC Northwest President, current - 5S243 plus 65 Mustang coupe track car plus 2016 GT350, past 6S286

gt350hr

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  Some people do their homework before they make extraordinary claims like 99 point car. Several "classic " car sellers do the same thing and when challenged say "owner supplied information" as a cop out. Bogus or unfounded claims are still that and buyers STILL get hurt over those claims. "Standard" features are not rare and replacement/repop parts are just that. Ignorance doesn't justify misleading people in an ad. Considerable time AND money would HAVE to be spent to get this otherwise extremely nice car to a "99 point car". That is a fact.
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

CharlesTurner

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  Some people do their homework before they make extraordinary claims like 99 point car. Several "classic " car sellers do the same thing and when challenged say "owner supplied information" as a cop out. Bogus or unfounded claims are still that and buyers STILL get hurt over those claims. "Standard" features are not rare and replacement/repop parts are just that. Ignorance doesn't justify misleading people in an ad. Considerable time AND money would HAVE to be spent to get this otherwise extremely nice car to a "99 point car". That is a fact.

+1

Also to add, there's a difference between 'regular' concours and cars restored with no reproduction parts (Div 1/T-bred)... '99 point car' can mean different things based on different standards.
Charles Turner
MCA/SAAC Judge

RPMRon

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Yes Randy (gt350hr)…you were right, it is the same Ron Miller from Ford Power Parts (FPP) where you worked years ago and where you met your wife Carol who was working for me at the time. Now that my history is confirmed…

As I replied to Bob Gaines I am NOT, NOR HAVE I EVER CLAIMED TO BE A SHELBY EXPERT!   As I am sure you remember, I am an expert on FE Ford Engines and  I am very knowledgeable on Sm blks, 351C and 460 series engines,  as well as on 65-70 Mustangs, since approximately  400 went through my hands over the years. But I am not considering myself an expert on Mustangs either. 

Maybe someday I can only hope to be an expert in all areas, as you seem to portrait yourself  for years;   I suppose that it is based on your vast knowledge that it gives you the right to criticize and bad month  people that you don’t consider being at your level of expertise.
 
If you re-read my text of the car for sale, you will notice that as soon as it was brought to my attention that this car has not been judged at a Shelby event, please note  that I rectified it immediately  because I realized that  it was not accurate for me to claim that it  was a 99 point car.  With an add on note, I specified that it has not been judged and never graded at a Shelby car show.  Also on my outgoing emails in relation with this car, I removed the “99 point car”, but I left it listed as a #1 car, which I don’t think that this statement could be debatable.

This being said, if for years you kept some grudge against me, about which I totally ignored the cause… or if you have some kind of a personal vendetta against me, why don’t you simply come to me directly, either by getting together, or by emailing me or write me a letter to let me know what are the unresolved issues, so we can “bury the hatchet” instead of all this ongoing behind the scenes back stabbing? Who knows, maybe I’ll even buy you a chicken dinner!

 This country (and the world at large) are in enough turmoil right now, so all of our energies should be focused on healing, being proactive in trying to fix the problems, and helping each other before it is too late, instead of quibbling over some possible minor issues that may have happened 25+ years ago.

And in closing I really appreciate all the feedback received here about what is incorrect  about this car and I am looking into everything suggested. Thank you!!