Author Topic: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra  (Read 5416 times)

68stangcjfb

  • SAAC Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 289
  • Long Island New York
    • View Profile
Re: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2021, 04:11:03 PM »
Your right. 260 horsepower solid cam 4v 260 in first cobra.
68 1/2 CJ Mustang GT FB auto 3.91s, 68 1/2 CJ Torino GT FB 3.91s, 60 Thunderbird, 64 Falcon Sprint conv. 4Spd, 65 Falcon Sedan Delivery, 67 Fairlane 500 SW 428 4Spd, 68 Torino 4dr, 95 Thunderbird SC. 89 F250 Supercab 2wd, 99 Sable, 99 Jeep Cherokee.

gt350hr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
  • Randy Gillis in real life - 5353 original posts
    • View Profile
Re: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2021, 04:19:38 PM »
      Mechanical cam , yes, but they still had flat top pistons with no valve reliefs. They were right at 10-1 with a 48 cc head or 9.5 with a 53. The first engines were "special builds" and had "XHP 260" on the valve cover, and the sequential build number after that.
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

68stangcjfb

  • SAAC Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 289
  • Long Island New York
    • View Profile
Re: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2021, 04:22:34 PM »
The 2v engines were the same except for the carburetor?
68 1/2 CJ Mustang GT FB auto 3.91s, 68 1/2 CJ Torino GT FB 3.91s, 60 Thunderbird, 64 Falcon Sprint conv. 4Spd, 65 Falcon Sedan Delivery, 67 Fairlane 500 SW 428 4Spd, 68 Torino 4dr, 95 Thunderbird SC. 89 F250 Supercab 2wd, 99 Sable, 99 Jeep Cherokee.

Dan Case

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 449
  • CSX2310
    • View Profile
Re: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2021, 05:04:41 PM »
Would that mean those cars with the 2 barrel were the base 260 164 horsepower engine of the time that was being used in other Fords? If so, I know the cars are light as feathers and they got a dual exhaust system but really, how fast were they? CSX2000 being painted different colors and given to different magazines for road testing obviously had a 289 hipo in it?

This thread has drifted away from the original topic.

CSX2000 got two different XHP-260 engines since arrival in the USA. XHP-260 engines were protoypes made by Ford engineers, Some parts were production 260, some production parts that got modified by the engineers, and many parts were custom made. Even parts like big bolts had part numbers marked on them. Most of the protoype parts had individual serial numbers marked on them. Bob Mannel did a reverse engineering study on XHP-260-4 out of a Cobra for me and the owner of the unrestored engine back around April 2013. The more interesting, to us, findings are documented in his online version of his book.

Engine XHP-260-4 came out of a Cobra and got transplanted into a racing Ferrari. Circa 1993 the engine was removed from the Ferrari as it regained a Ferrari engine like it originally had. Bob Mannel's study and publication covers the various known details.  I have over 2,000 close pictures of components and some technical data files Bob made during the study. The details of all the prototype and preproduction parts in this old engine are staggering to comprehend.  Based on a key part's serial numbering I believe only 35 each XHP-260 engines were made. Cobras were not the only vehicle and Shelby American wasn't the only users. XHP-260 engines represented racing technology as Ford engineering understood it in 1961. By the time HP289s went into production in March 1963 a lot changed, mostly in cylinder head components. Still, HP289s were 1962 technology.



After XHP-260 engines there was a semi-production High Performance 260. Ford made at least 137 of them because #137 was installed in a new Cobra. The HP260s are the grandparents of the HP289 components wise except cylinder head assemblies which were like XHP-260 engines. Again, Cobras were not the only vehicle and Shelby American wasn't the only users. Dearborn Steel Tubing Company built up a prototype Ford Falcon with a HP260 engine and Ford allowed a magazine company to road test it and publish the results.

Ford did not start testing preproduction HP289s until the September October 1962 time frame. HP289 production started the first work day of March 1963.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 05:44:29 PM by Dan Case »
Dan Case
1964 Cobra owner since 1983, Cobra crazy since I saw my first one in the mid 1960s in Huntsville, AL.

Side-Oilers

  • SAAC Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2058
  • SAAC member since 1981.
    • View Profile
Re: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2021, 05:50:19 PM »
Would that mean those cars with the 2 barrel were the base 260 164 horsepower engine of the time that was being used in other Fords? If so, I know the cars are light as feathers and they got a dual exhaust system but really, how fast were they? CSX2000 being painted different colors and given to different magazines for road testing obviously had a 289 hipo in it?

Carroll let me drive CSX2000, back in 1999, for Motor Trend's 50th Anniversary special issue.  It smoked quite a bit when you were into the throttle, but still ran strong. 

I certainly didn't want to beat on it, but I'd say it felt as powerful as other early (unmodified) ones I've driven. 
Current:
1968 GT500KR owner since 1982 (now running Shelby aluminum 427 S-O)
Kirkham Cobra 427

gt350hr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
  • Randy Gillis in real life - 5353 original posts
    • View Profile
Re: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2021, 12:40:44 PM »
 Dan and Bob's work is incredible. Documenting such a rare prototype engine is really important and revealing. These were really "ground breaking" builds that led to "common engines'' later on. Nice work!
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

S7MS427

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 263
    • View Profile
    • S-Tech Enterprises, LLC
Re: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2021, 01:09:32 PM »
Dan and Bob's work is incredible. Documenting such a rare prototype engine is really important and revealing. These were really "ground breaking" builds that led to "common engines'' later on. Nice work!
+1.  If you are a ford racing enthusiast and don't have a copy of Bob's book, you are doing yourself a major disservice.  Appendix I on the HP 289 and HP C4 transmission is worth the price alone.  Absolutely a bible for the Ford small block line of engines.
Roy Simkins
http://www.S-TechEnt.com/Shelby.htm
1966 G.T.350H SFM6S817
1967 G.T.500 67400F7A03040

Dan Case

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 449
  • CSX2310
    • View Profile
Re: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2021, 01:26:57 PM »
Dan and Bob's work is incredible. Documenting such a rare prototype engine is really important and revealing. These were really "ground breaking" builds that led to "common engines'' later on. Nice work!

Bob had a prototype HP289 engine of his own for a while but I think he sold it. It is interesting to us to see how Ford engineers did things and get a look into what they were thinking while developing engines. Everybody with HP289 powered cars should be glad some of the XHP-260 and HP260 part designs didn't survive into HP289s.
Dan Case
1964 Cobra owner since 1983, Cobra crazy since I saw my first one in the mid 1960s in Huntsville, AL.

Cobra Ned

  • SAAC Registrar
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 326
    • View Profile
Re: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2021, 09:48:51 PM »
  Ned .
     Herbie and Hank are about the only "original owners" left right?

You'd think so, but nope: there are 8 leaf-spring Cobras still in the hands of their original owners, and 7 coil-spring cars. That doesn't include a couple owned by the families of the original owners.

propayne

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 816
    • View Profile
Re: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2021, 06:48:47 AM »
^^^ That is amazing!

- Phillip
President, Delmarva Cougar Club - Brand Manager, Cougar Club of America

gt350hr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
  • Randy Gillis in real life - 5353 original posts
    • View Profile
Re: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2021, 12:00:37 PM »
+1 Thanks as always Ned!
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

cbrown

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 204
    • View Profile
Re: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2021, 08:03:01 PM »
My friend, Chris Layton has recalled the story to me on when Herbie bought the car out I believe Manhattan. Said he walked in to the dealership and told him he wanted to car. they did not believe him. He left went to the bank got cash came back and paid them!  I have not watched the Jay Leno interview yet. So hopefully Iím not reiterating on what happened with the car. 

Chris

68gtcoupe

  • SAAC Member
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 170
    • View Profile
Re: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2021, 09:25:51 AM »
My friend, Chris Layton has recalled the story to me on when Herbie bought the car out I believe Manhattan. Said he walked in to the dealership and told him he wanted to car. they did not believe him. He left went to the bank got cash came back and paid them!  I have not watched the Jay Leno interview yet. So hopefully Iím not reiterating on what happened with the car. 

Chris

True story.  Salesman barely gave him the time of day, stated something like, "Do you know how much this car costs?", basically blew him off.  Herbie came back with cash and bought the car.  He has stated something along the lines of, "The car would never mean as much to anyone else as it does to me", as it was his first big purchase after he started making money as a musician.  Gross oversimplification of the story, but basically that is what happened.   

honker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1440
    • View Profile
Re: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2021, 10:08:14 AM »
Great thread, cbrown and 68gtcoupe thanks for the story behind the purchase of the Cobra !

Not a Shelby, but much the same,

Reminds me of Canadian rocker Rompin' Ronnie Hawkins going into a dealer in 1967 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and looking at a

 Rolls Royce. The salesman blew him off, so he went to the bank drew out $18,500 Canadian put it in a bag returned to the dealer

 and dumped the money on the floor, and drove away in the car. The part I like is he asked the manager what the salesman's

commission would be, $1,500, took that money out of the bag and bought the car   8)

Gordon Lightfoot, another Canadian singer, wrote a song about it called  "Silver Cloud Talk'n Blues"

Mike
« Last Edit: March 15, 2021, 10:14:19 AM by honker »

6R07mi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 240
  • SAAC Member
    • View Profile
Re: Leno and Herbie Hancock Cobra
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2021, 02:02:53 PM »
Not a Shelby, but much the same,

Reminds me of Canadian rocker Rompin' Ronnie Hawkins going into a dealer in 1967 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and looking at a
 Rolls Royce. The salesman blew him off, so he went to the bank drew out $18,500 Canadian put it in a bag returned to the dealer
 and dumped the money on the floor, and drove away in the car. The part I like is he asked the manager what the salesman's
commission would be, $1,500, took that money out of the bag and bought the car   8)
Mike

Reminds me of back in the late 70's I was working at a Mercury dealer in NW Detroit,
one day a guy comes in in his "super fly" disco outfit and pulls enough cash out of his fanny pouch to buy a Lincoln Continental,
bright blue, white interior, with white vinyl top, on the spot.
We all were betting the likelihood the cash was the product of certain non-legal activities !!??

regards,
jim p
Former owner 6S283, 70 "Boss351", 66 GT 6F07, 67 FB GT
current: 66 GT former day 2 track car 6R07
20+ yrs Ford Parts Mgr, now Meritor Defense