Author Topic: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?  (Read 4488 times)

Coralsnake

  • SAAC Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • The original Influencer
    • View Profile
    • theCoralsnake.com
Re: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2021, 06:17:56 AM »
Of course, I had completely forgotten about 1954 Studebakers...

..and Facebook



« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 06:38:00 AM by Coralsnake »

cboss70

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • SAAC Member
    • View Profile
Re: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2021, 08:05:16 AM »
I have an April built 69 and if I remember correctly the date codes seemed correct but there was no VIN stamping on the engine - matching the Shelby # or otherwise. The previous owner believed it may have not been stamped in error.  I know I've seen earlier original cars with extra VIN's, No VIN's and, mixed VIN's. I've seen 69/70 cars with partial VIN's on shock towers (maybe plant code and sequential number). However, it sounds like from these posts that its unlikely a 69/70 Shelby or Mustang got out the door without the VIN on the engine?  If that's the case I'll have to try and get to it again and relook but I'm pretty sure there's nothing at all.  Great topic, thanks.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 08:07:01 AM by cboss70 »

Coralsnake

  • SAAC Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • The original Influencer
    • View Profile
    • theCoralsnake.com
Re: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2021, 08:59:28 AM »
Things have to be taken in totality, the history of the car, the casting dates and the stampings.

I believe the original post is specifically about stamping VINs on engines.

These numbers were supposed to be hidden.

Most times when people say they are missing, they are looking in the wrong places or the stampings are not cleaned off properly. The stampings can easily be painted over or covered by corrosion . Some have other agendas.

Some are seeking a loose interpretation so they claim matching numbers. It is really not that big of a factor for most people.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 09:03:34 AM by Coralsnake »

Bob Gaines

  • SAAC Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Original Posts:14706
    • View Profile
Re: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2021, 09:38:33 AM »
Things have to be taken in totality, the history of the car, the casting dates and the stampings.

I believe the original post is specifically about stamping VINs on engines.

These numbers were supposed to be hidden.

Most times when people say they are missing, they are looking in the wrong places or the stampings are not cleaned off properly. The stampings can easily be painted over or covered by corrosion . Some have other agendas.

Some are seeking a loose interpretation so they claim matching numbers. It is really not that big of a factor for most people.
+1 .Well said.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

98SVT - was 06GT

  • SAAC Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
    • View Profile
Re: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2021, 11:02:05 AM »
At least San Jose started Job 1 for 68 production for all engine and transmission combinations. Guess to get a head start on the 1/1/68 requirement.  Sure no one at the plants wanted to get hit with penalties and such

Guess the current DOT site could be in error or its a misprint. Likely no one there now that was around back then :)  Kind of like when Ford put out that they didn't stamp all engines and transmissions except for high performance engines in one of their brochures a few years back.

Read took effect January 1, 1969 for yourself - Section II Paragraph I. Yes nobody is still there from the time but all their paperwork is. Before the law was written all the manufacturers would have been given an opportunity to comment and get a a head start on the future.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/fmvss/VIN_Final_Rule_April_08.pdf
Previous owner 6S843 - GT350H & 68 GT500 Convert #135.
Mine: GT1 Mustang Track Toy, 1998 SVT Cobra, Wife's: 2004 Tbird
Member since 1975 - priceless

Bob Gaines

  • SAAC Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Original Posts:14706
    • View Profile
Re: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2021, 11:46:24 AM »
At least San Jose started Job 1 for 68 production for all engine and transmission combinations. Guess to get a head start on the 1/1/68 requirement.  Sure no one at the plants wanted to get hit with penalties and such

Guess the current DOT site could be in error or its a misprint. Likely no one there now that was around back then :)  Kind of like when Ford put out that they didn't stamp all engines and transmissions except for high performance engines in one of their brochures a few years back.

Read took effect January 1, 1969 for yourself - Section II Paragraph I. Yes nobody is still there from the time but all their paperwork is. Before the law was written all the manufacturers would have been given an opportunity to comment and get a a head start on the future.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/fmvss/VIN_Final_Rule_April_08.pdf
Given the back and forth I decided to googled the subject.  From the Federal Register , Daily Journal of the United States Government .https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2008/04/30/08-1197/vehicle-identification-number-requirements   . It appears to be a DOT document which it is reasonable to assume carries credibility.  . If you scroll down to  A. History and Overview of the VIN System in regard to VIN info it states what took effect January 1 of 1969 was - That standard required each passenger car to have a VIN that is permanently “sunk or embossed” on a part of the vehicle visible through the glazing by a person standing at the left windshield pillar. Although VIN related this Jan 1 of 1969 mandate does not appear to apply to subject of the thread which is when the VIN was added to the engine and trans.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Coralsnake

  • SAAC Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • The original Influencer
    • View Profile
    • theCoralsnake.com
Re: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2021, 01:51:00 PM »
I think we might also add a requirement does not preclude Ford from doing it voluntarily.

So far I havent seen any “evidence” they were not stamped in accordance with production manuals.

J_Speegle

  • SAAC Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Just here to help :)
    • View Profile
    • ConcoursMustang.com
Re: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2021, 02:15:00 PM »
Read took effect January 1, 1969 for yourself - Section II Paragraph I. Yes nobody is still there from the time but all their paperwork is. Before the law was written all the manufacturers would have been given an opportunity to comment and get a a head start on the future.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/fmvss/VIN_Final_Rule_April_08.pdf

Believe we are "talking" past each other and not about the same thing My references and focus was towards the stamping of engine and transmissions
Jeff Speegle- Mustang & Shelby detail collector, ConcoursMustang.com mentor :) and Judge

shlb69

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • View Profile
Re: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2021, 09:11:24 PM »
So where should the vin be on a early 69 gt350 engine

Royce Peterson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2021, 09:18:23 AM »
It should be here:

http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/8-280221162833.jpeg

So where should the vin be on a early 69 gt350 engine
1968 Cougar XR-7 GT-E 427 Side Oiler C6 3.50 Detroit Locker
1968 1/2 Cougar XR-7 428CJ Ram Air C6 3.91 Traction Lock

69 GT350 Vert

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • View Profile
Re: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2021, 09:26:04 AM »
My December 1968 completed shelby has the last 5 digits of the vin on the rear of block, and on top of fmx transmission. 

Coralsnake

  • SAAC Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • The original Influencer
    • View Profile
    • theCoralsnake.com
Re: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2021, 09:29:39 AM »


Rear face of block as installed, just below left cylinder head on 351.


Coralsnake

  • SAAC Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • The original Influencer
    • View Profile
    • theCoralsnake.com
Re: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2021, 09:34:15 AM »
...right where the Ford book says

« Last Edit: March 05, 2021, 10:51:37 AM by Coralsnake »

Coralsnake

  • SAAC Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • The original Influencer
    • View Profile
    • theCoralsnake.com
Re: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2021, 09:38:11 AM »
Back to the original poster...

If you have matching date codes that is not the same as “matching numbers”

Big difference. Please let Facebook know that

shelbymann1970

  • SAAC Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
    • View Profile
Re: When we’re the VINs added to the Engine and Trans for 69s?
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2021, 12:28:03 PM »
Not all factory VIN's were stamped on the block in 1969, some had them had partial, rough, hand stamped VIN's into the back of the drivers side head.


Bill
you mean like this?  ;D
Shelby owner since 1984
SAAC member since 1990
1970 GT350 4 speed(owned since 1985).
  MCA gold 2003(not anymore)
1969 Mach1 428SCJ 4 speed R-code (owned since 2013)