Author Topic: Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters  (Read 1999 times)

rkm

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Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters
« on: June 08, 2021, 01:19:00 PM »
For the past 25 years or so, I have used Pennziol 25w50 Racing oil exclusively in all my flat tappet engine cars. Never a problem. I ate a camshaft once before that when Pennzoil took all the ZDDP out of there street car oil 20w50.
Last year, after Pennzoil was sold to Shell, they discontinued the product and it is now unobtainium.
I did a pile of research on the Internet and decided that Valvoline VR1 Racing oil would be the stuff to use. Didn't want to start mixing my own oil etc. I looked at all the alternatives. There is a lot of junk on the Internet. But I bought $500.00 of the stuff to make the switch.

But just to be safe, I had the old stuff (of which I still have a bottle or two) analyzed along with the VR1.
Low and behold, it has only 65% of the zinc that the Pennzoil has. VR1 1304 ppm, phosphorus 1179 ppm. Pennzoil zinc 2014 ppm, phosphorus 1826 ppm.
I can post the reports as soon as my kid shows me how. But this is no bs, virgin new oil samples. So forget any hype you read elsewhere. "designed for flat tappet engines" etc. All bs.

My question to the gurus is, now what? I know I am not the only one with this issue.

shelbydoug

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Re: Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2021, 01:30:41 PM »
Look at Compcams break-in oil. You may like the specs. I did.
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Bob Gaines

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Re: Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2021, 01:38:56 PM »
I typically add the ZDDP sold additive to along with the oil during a oil change.This procedure satisfies my concern about the missing properties in the modern oil used in flat tappet engines.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 01:40:30 PM by Bob Gaines »
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gt350hr

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Re: Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2021, 02:20:20 PM »
    VR1 is fine for flat tappet cams. There are other factors (lobe taper , lifter radius, and valve spring pressure) that also cause lobe failure regardless oil /zinc load. Once a cam is broken in the zinc level can be reduced as the parts have lapped in.
    Randy
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

NC TRACKRAT

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Re: Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2021, 01:18:49 PM »
BradPenn (now Penngrade1) the original green oil that Kendall used to make, has been serving me well.  Check 'em out at www.Penngrade1.com.  I purchase a couple of cases at a time directly from the local distributor.
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FL SAAC

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Re: Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2021, 03:07:29 PM »
Been saying this for years. Real easy Mobil 1,  how much do you want?

Zinc levels
1300
1750
1850

truly don't need any more than this
These cars are meant to be driven so enjoy the hell out of all of it. Not just the look of it when its all cleanCS

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Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas

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Re: Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2021, 05:17:10 PM »
BradPenn (now Penngrade1) the original green oil that Kendall used to make, has been serving me well.  Check 'em out at www.Penngrade1.com.  I purchase a couple of cases at a time directly from the local distributor.

+1 great stuff
Owned since 1971, now driven over 242,000 miles, makes me smile every time I drive it and it makes me feel 21 again.😎

FL SAAC

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Re: Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2021, 05:47:40 PM »
Good stuff not better than Mobil 1

BradPenn (now Penngrade1) the original green oil that Kendall used to make, has been serving me well.  Check 'em out at www.Penngrade1.com.  I purchase a couple of cases at a time directly from the local distributor.

+1 great stuff
« Last Edit: June 22, 2021, 05:50:42 PM by FL SAAC »
These cars are meant to be driven so enjoy the hell out of all of it. Not just the look of it when its all cleanCS

A person without a sense of humor is like a wagon without springs.It's jolted by every pebble on the road

Florida S.A.A.C Love All-Serve All, Take Time To Be Kind

I have a UNGOLD car

NC TRACKRAT

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Re: Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2021, 08:14:53 PM »
Both will get the job done but if you compare MOBIL1 Racing vs. PennGrade1 at either the distributor or retail level and I think PennGrade will win the ZDDP battle on price.
5S071, 6S1467

rkm

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Re: Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2021, 10:32:09 PM »
Thank you all for the advice. I settled on "Driven" break in oil from Joe  Gibbs racing. 1800 ppm zinc. 20w50 wt.

I will let you all know how it works.

Now...what to do with all that Valvoline?..

shelbydoug

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Re: Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2021, 07:32:54 AM »
I would just add to this discussion that a solid lifter 427 doesn't need any different of a break in oil then any other solid lifter engine does.
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FL SAAC

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Re: Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2021, 08:53:45 AM »
Both will get the job done but if you compare MOBIL1 Racing vs. PennGrade1 at either the distributor or retail level and I think PennGrade will win the ZDDP battle on price.

Well if you want to WIN on the battle on price, we can always buy from Shiiiiinaaaa  ! Probably has more ZDDP and other ingredients than Penn or Mobil
These cars are meant to be driven so enjoy the hell out of all of it. Not just the look of it when its all cleanCS

A person without a sense of humor is like a wagon without springs.It's jolted by every pebble on the road

Florida S.A.A.C Love All-Serve All, Take Time To Be Kind

I have a UNGOLD car

gt350hr

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Re: Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2021, 11:25:25 AM »
   Let me know how that works for you Tony! I'll keep on using "green oil" in my race engines , VR1 in my flat tappet engines , and conventional or synthetic in factory roller engines. Oil is one thing you shouldn't cheap out on.
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

pbf777

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Re: Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2021, 11:26:30 AM »
I typically add the ZDDP sold additive to along with the oil during a oil change.This procedure satisfies my concern about the missing properties in the modern oil used in flat tappet engines.

     Just to pass along a comment in two separate communications I have had with 'real' oil engineers on this topic; this being that in reality it is not known (without testing), and highly doubtful when realizing what is required to accomplish, that any store bought additive is doing anything but taking money out of our pocket, and then just laying in the bottom of the oil pan!   :o   The idea that one can just pour some foreign chemical composition additive into some complex refined oil product and be successful in achieving the desired effect is going to be definitely questionable.   :-\ 

     This regardless of any claims made on the label!   ::)

     And as a note: realize that the composition of ZDDP, although found in, is not technically considered a lubricant, in the typical sense, but rather is a sacrificial metal additive package to aid in extending the lubricant's otherwise more limited capability.     :)

     Scott.

     
« Last Edit: June 23, 2021, 11:33:48 AM by pbf777 »

gt350hr

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Re: Oil for 427 Medium Riser mechanical lifters
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2021, 11:38:14 AM »
   +1 "oil" can ONLY hold SO many additives in suspension and oil company engineers design the oils with that in mind. So "additives" fall out onto the bottom of the oil pan EXACTLY as Scott mentioned. I found this out the hard way when during break in of a new engine I had a main seal leak ( imagine that) . I pulled the pan to find a thick gray "sludge" covering the bottom of the pan and it looked "metallic" in nature. Sure enough it was the "zinc additive" put in for camshaft break in. It wasn't doing a damn bit of good laying on the bottom of the pan
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.