Author Topic: The Parts Date Code Rabbit Hole  (Read 1514 times)

Bob Gaines

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The Parts Date Code Rabbit Hole
« on: August 30, 2021, 02:05:37 PM »
 This topic has to do with parts and not body ,paint and build techniques which are all just as important but not discussed here. This topic does have to do with relevance of date codes as it pertains to Concours judging.  Date code relevance has been discussed before and it bears repeating again . First thing to get out of the way is that regardless of SAAC or MCA all concours classes expect the car and parts to look as new from the dealer to the first customer. I thought it is good to keep in mind that a concours judge would only be looking for or at dates in DIV I or MCA Thoroughbred . The DIV II  and MCA trailer concours the parts are expected to look correct but they don't have to be date correct. There are no bonus points for dated parts in those classes.  Good reproductions like heater hose and radiator hose ,tires ,regulator ,exhaust to name a few are no point deduction in those similar class/venues. The DIV I /MCA Thoroughbred car is expected to only have original assemblyline parts and no reproduction. Every part would be expected to be date code correct like on original battery,tires , alternator belt, fuel pump, brake hose's ,Glass etc.  Approximately 97 percent or more that enter concours enter in DIVII or MCA trailered. Both class's regardless of venue are expected to look as new and not driven. Striving for everything to be correct is admirable but unless every part follows the same pattern per the class it is expected to get judged in then a few parts that are dated correct will not make a difference in the big picture . I hate to see enthusiasts get wrapped up on date codes for some parts and miss opportunities to get correct parts for their cars waiting for that correct particular date or dates on already extremely rare parts. Just me. It also doesn't make reasonable sense to be obsessed with correct date codes on some parts and then overlook and have incorrect parts in highly visible areas IMO. I think a good strategy is to find the correct part first and then upgrade to the correct date part next because you may not get another chance to get the correct part let alone one dated correct for your specific car IMO. Just trying to help get the best out of the Shelby experience.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas

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Re: The Parts Date Code Rabbit Hole
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2021, 04:51:22 PM »
Wise words from a guy who knows
Thanks Bob 👍
Owned since 1971, now driven over 242,000 miles, makes me smile every time I drive it and it makes me feel 21 again.😎

J_Speegle

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Re: The Parts Date Code Rabbit Hole
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2021, 07:28:33 PM »
Of course there are plenty of owners who's focus is on making their restorations better, and their cars closer to how they were originally. The great thing is that there is room enough for all,  be it the drivers, the day two guys, or top of the heap cars as well as all the points in between. Each should be celebrated for having a dream and plan, as well as seeing it through.
Jeff Speegle- Mustang & Shelby detail collector, ConcoursMustang.com mentor :) and Judge

427heaven

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Re: The Parts Date Code Rabbit Hole
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2021, 09:07:05 PM »
Amen Jeff -there is a place for all in the SHELBY/COBRA sandbox to play if they choose. What seems to have happened over the past 60 years is the division of one group over the others. Everyone has a dream... and how they want that dream to be! In the words of one Rodney King, Cant we just all get along.

J_Speegle

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Re: The Parts Date Code Rabbit Hole
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2021, 11:05:53 PM »
We can definitely all get along and we do, generally speaking.

One thing about doing your own thing is you don't have have to ask allot of questions of others :) so they appear to be under represented  in print here.
Jeff Speegle- Mustang & Shelby detail collector, ConcoursMustang.com mentor :) and Judge

Karguy

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Re: The Parts Date Code Rabbit Hole
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2021, 11:52:14 PM »
Well said as usual Jeff. It is nice to know in this hobby there is room enough for all. 6S281 had a bit of a tough life over the years, partly due to me as a 17 year old beating the hell out of the poor car in the 70s after inheriting it from my 23 year old brother in 1974, Thankfully it survived me.
Chasing parts and date codes is definitely as Bob said a rabbit hole, But to me its worth going as far and as deep down the rabbit hole as I can or justify financially. One of the most rewarding parts for me is the amazing history and facts Ive learned about 66 Shelbys and specifically early non-carryover 66 cars from some very wise, helpful and patient members of this forum. I also get great satisfaction out of tracking down the CORRECT parts for my car as much as is possible.
I have made up my mind that when I do find the CORRECT parts for my car,  date codes and condition, I will buy them if at all possible. Fortunately I have found almost everything I need to begin the restoration of 6S281, hopefully very soon. Even though many of these really nice CORRECT parts may not benefit my car in division two Concours as Bob says, it is still worth the attempt and effort to me. I want my car to be the best Division II car I can make it. I will be using brand new Koni shocks and new reproduction Goodyear blue dots, but I would not be interested in spending a lot of money on parts that were obviously the wrong date codes for my car, id rather wait, be patient and eventually track down the CORRECT things with CORRECT date codes that belong on my car wether it makes sense in division two or not. I think the goal of all of this hard work and effort we do is about a lot more than whether it helps in a particular Concours division or not. It is purely about the pride of the accomplishment and continuing to improve the cars and the hobby, IMHO.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2021, 12:19:15 AM by Karguy »
6S281, in my family from 1972-1983. Back home January 2017, will not leave again!

Bob Gaines

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Re: The Parts Date Code Rabbit Hole
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2021, 12:27:08 AM »
Not to let things go off the rails here but the purpose of this thread is not to tell people that they can't put icing on the cake as in dated correct parts on a otherwise DIVII catagory car. It is to let people know that they do not have to limit themselves by only putting dated correct parts on a car IF they are using the concours class categories as yard sticks. I hear all of the time people saying that this certain part would not be concours correct on their car. Well it depends on what class concours that they are prescribing to. Informing for a better understanding may help them decide what to do or not to do.  If they are not using concours class categories as yardsticks or mixing the different categories that is fine. It is their car and they can do as they like with it . With the correct information a owner can make a informed decision on what is right for them. Some people can get frustrated because they can't find that correctly dated part or if they can it cost too much in their mind. Others get frustrated because they found a great date coded part but the can't see the historical forest for the trees and let other more visible items be substandard. The information we are discussing is meant to help inform enthusiasts for a better understanding as it relates to concours class venues only . It is not meant to IMPOSE preset standards on anyone unless and only then if they are following the concours rules of historical accuracy established by SAAC or MCA venues.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

J_Speegle

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Re: The Parts Date Code Rabbit Hole
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2021, 01:27:47 AM »
.... I have made up my mind that when I do find the CORRECT parts for my car,  date codes and condition, I will buy them if at all possible. Fortunately I have found almost everything I need to begin the restoration of 6S281, hopefully very soon. Even though many of these really nice CORRECT parts may not benefit my car in division two Concours as Bob says, it is still worth the attempt and effort to me. I want my car to be the best Division II car I can make it. I will be using brand new Koni shocks and new reproduction Goodyear blue dots, but I would not be interested in spending a lot of money on parts that were obviously the wrong date codes for my car, id rather wait, be patient and eventually track down the CORRECT things with CORRECT date codes that belong on my car wether it makes sense in division two or not. I think the goal of all of this hard work and effort we do is about a lot more than whether it helps in a particular Concours division or not. It is purely about the pride of the accomplishment and continuing to improve the cars and the hobby, IMHO.

Fully understand and your goals are reflected by many owners but not all.  I've heard from plenty of owners that want to reach higher. Maybe it's to hopefully increase the value of the car, show dedication, commitment  or simply the desire of the current owner. Of course if this level of detail is carried through the restoration it will typically do well on the judging field also.

I always figured that if I have to buy a part then might as well search out one a dated one to match the car.  If it's holding up a project that has a target date then sometimes you have to settle or purchase a place holder until you find the perfect part. Of course if a part is not exactly what I'm looking for I would not pay top dollar for it either, saving some for something else or for the right part if I find it.


Do not mean to speak for Bob and I believe I understand his stated intent was to remind people who's goal is an award. A different way of saying it is that you only need to reach the minimum requirement for that goal your aiming for nothing more.  Be it easier or more difficult based on your resources and the car one started out with. If your real focus is on the bottom ($$$) line and an award is your goal, spending any more time, effort and money than need be would be, in a word, silly. My words and understanding of this belief held by some owners/builders.

I find it good that we can discuss things like this openly and it is  IMHO a healthy thing for the forum
 
Jeff Speegle- Mustang & Shelby detail collector, ConcoursMustang.com mentor :) and Judge