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GT500KR Water Pump, Question about casting part number

Started by Craner, October 09, 2021, 01:28:49 PM

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Craner

I getting ready to send out parts for rebuild and I noticed 1969 Casting Numbers on my KR water pump.
I believe the pump is original to the car, as are most items, other what has been replaced due to accidents...
The date code seems correct/possible for my car.
The question I have is, was the updated 1969 water pump design used on late builds of the 1968 GT500KRs?
Has anyone else observed this on a late build KR?
See attached photo for the casting number and build date. 
Thank you for all comments!
Fran

Bob Gaines

#1
Quote from: Craner on October 09, 2021, 01:28:49 PM
I getting ready to send out parts for rebuild and I noticed 1969 Casting Numbers on my KR water pump.
I believe the pump is original to the car, as are most items, other what has been replaced due to accidents...
The date code seems correct/possible for my car.
The question I have is, was the updated 1969 water pump design used on late builds of the 1968 GT500KRs?
Has anyone else observed this on a late build KR?
See attached photo for the casting number and build date. 
Thank you for all comments!
Fran
Unlike many things water pumps commonly get replaced.Most likely the pump was changed by a PO. I haven't seen or even heard of anecdotal evidence  for finding a C9AE  water pump on 68 a undisturbed survivor car. A C8AE casting is what would be expected.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby


Craner

Thank you both!
The reason for my question was based on the build date on my engine tag aligning with the casting date on the pump. Same month. (June)

The car had the original PN hoses and belts on the car when I bought it. The belts were actually locked on the pulleys when I bought the car. The car had sat in that same spot for 20+ years
15k on the odometer. I believe that mileage to be true.. based on the condition of the internals of the engine when that was rebuilt last fall. (Matching serial number.)
The pump casting marking is a 6, guessing this is the an earlier casting revision to what is shown on the 428cj site.

Attached are a couple photos for you to understand why I asked the question.
Engine tag, couple more photos of the pump. 

Tired Sheep

I think "8G10" is July 10, 1968

Was you car built after that date?

J_Speegle

Since the engine tag is dated for the same month as the water pump  would be interested in other casting and production dates of the other parts of the engine though many of the cast items I would predict will be prior to July

Tag does appear to be the original

Agree that the real completion date at NJ would be of help to the discussion 
Jeff Speegle- Mustang & Shelby detail collector, ConcoursMustang.com mentor :) and Judge

Royce Peterson

#6
They made water pumps in large batches because they were not specific to the 428CJ - that same pump could have come on any 360 pickup, 390 Galaxie / Mustang / Comet / Fairlane / Marauder etc. I would look at the stamped build date of the engine (not the car) and the logistics of it being ready for installation on the engine at DEP on the same day it was cast.
1968 Cougar XR-7 GT-E 427 Side Oiler C6 3.50 Detroit Locker
1968 1/2 Cougar XR-7 428CJ Ram Air C6 3.91 Traction Lock

Craner

Thanks Royce..
Dump question.
- Where would I find the stamped build date on the engine?
I think I know where to look...
Guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Fran

Royce Peterson

This is one of mine. It's the boss located just forward of where the transmission is attached on the driver side. This car was assembled (actual date) May 13, 1968. Engine assembly was dated 8E3 so about 10 days before the car's build date.
1968 Cougar XR-7 GT-E 427 Side Oiler C6 3.50 Detroit Locker
1968 1/2 Cougar XR-7 428CJ Ram Air C6 3.91 Traction Lock

Bob Gaines

Quote from: Royce Peterson on October 11, 2021, 07:10:10 PM
This is one of mine. It's the boss located just forward of where the transmission is attached on the driver side. This car was assembled (actual date) May 13, 1968. Engine assembly was dated 8E3 so about 10 days before the car's build date.
I wanted to add that if you the OP didn't find the metal stamp on the rear boss because another location that is used is in the same location but in the front of the block (above oil filter adapter) is also used as a engine assembly build date stamp location.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Craner

Thank you!
I was able to locate stamp marks on the motor as advised (drivers side back tab location).
I believe the stamping is "23" possibly. There  looks like another marking or markings before that, but I can't quite pick that out.
I could use some help on your thoughts about that, as I really don't know what to expect.
The build date for the car as per the build sheet is 29 U (see photo of build sheet)

J_Speegle

#11
Quote from: Craner on October 12, 2021, 02:27:45 PM
The build date for the car as per the build sheet is 29 U (see photo of build sheet)

That is not the real build date of your car. Just an estimate/guess made by an employee possibly months earlier. Just like the date that you will find on a door/warranty tag on the drivers door. You would have to get the real date (and you should IMHO) from Kevin Marti by purchasing one of his reports that will include that info and much more
Jeff Speegle- Mustang & Shelby detail collector, ConcoursMustang.com mentor :) and Judge

S7MS427

Roy Simkins
http://www.s-techent.com/Shelby.htm
1966 G.T.350H SFM6S817
1967 G.T.500 67400F7A03040

Royce Peterson

Looks like 8 _ _ 23 __

So not very decisive since the month is illegible.


Quote from: Craner on October 12, 2021, 02:27:45 PM
Thank you!
I was able to locate stamp marks on the motor as advised (drivers side back tab location).
I believe the stamping is "23" possibly. There  looks like another marking or markings before that, but I can't quite pick that out.
I could use some help on your thoughts about that, as I really don't know what to expect.
The build date for the car as per the build sheet is 29 U (see photo of build sheet)
1968 Cougar XR-7 GT-E 427 Side Oiler C6 3.50 Detroit Locker
1968 1/2 Cougar XR-7 428CJ Ram Air C6 3.91 Traction Lock

Craner

Royce,
Makes sense.. thank you for your experienced eye and comment.

so my best guess..
- based on the motor tag date of July (small aluminum tag, yes it's original) & my limited understanding that motors would be built a week or two before the car is actually built, the motor build date would be July 23rd.

I will contact Kevin Marti (Report) for the actual NJ build date of the car, and see what he has on this car.
I do have a copy of the IBM punch card for this car build, and a copy of a hand written shipping ledger.
I also have all the documents that Lois Eminger provided years ago.
God bless her for keeping all those documents safe long before people tracked these cars to this level. 
Fran