Author Topic: GT500KR Water Pump, Question about casting part number  (Read 1072 times)

Royce Peterson

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Re: GT500KR Water Pump, Question about casting part number
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2021, 08:57:08 AM »
Since the car was assembled at Metuchen, and the engine assembled at Dearborn Engine Plant, the assembly date on the block would likely be at least a month prior to the car's assembly date. Engines and other parts were shipped by rail to New Jersey where they had to be unloaded and staged before the car could be assembled.


Royce,
Makes sense.. thank you for your experienced eye and comment.

so my best guess..
- based on the motor tag date of July (small aluminum tag, yes itís original) & my limited understanding that motors would be built a week or two before the car is actually built, the motor build date would be July 23rd.

I will contact Kevin Marti (Report) for the actual NJ build date of the car, and see what he has on this car.
I do have a copy of the IBM punch card for this car build, and a copy of a hand written shipping ledger.
I also have all the documents that Lois Eminger provided years ago.
God bless her for keeping all those documents safe long before people tracked these cars to this level. 
Fran
1968 Cougar XR-7 GT-E 427 Side Oiler C6 3.50 Detroit Locker
1968 1/2 Cougar XR-7 428CJ Ram Air C6 3.91 Traction Lock

Tired Sheep

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Re: GT500KR Water Pump, Question about casting part number
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2021, 09:34:07 AM »
The time between when the block was cast and the scheduled build date of the car could be as short as a week. The average length was longer, but it depends on your specific set of dates.

At some periods during production the times were extended. There are no hard fast guidelines
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 09:36:35 AM by Tired Sheep »

Special Ed

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Re: GT500KR Water Pump, Question about casting part number
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2021, 10:45:21 AM »
Block assembly date isnt a clear stamp and water pump and bypass hose looks to be original blue  paint and reman or nos water pumps were bare steel when installed so they would have to be painted before or after being installed and if the fan snout  had any blue paint as that are was kept bare to install fan bolt holes to not have any paint in that area and all hardware would be blue paint also. One way of knowing if the pump was replaced is seeing how the 4 bolts were installed as most people dont notice the rh bottom bolt is short without lockwasher (wet application) as that bolt screws into block wall coolant and thats why it dont have a split lockwasher to keep water from seeping out the split washer. This is a FE thing and many people installed all 4 split lock washer bolts thinking they should all be the same and the old AMK kits came with all 4 bolts the same till i corrected him on that but problem is there should be installation instructions explaining this so people understand. So craner did u document where or how these 4 bolts were installed before removal as the lockwashers will leave a witness mark when torqued down?

Craner

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Re: GT500KR Water Pump, Question about casting part number
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2021, 08:46:51 PM »
I did take photos of the motor when I first pulled the engine ,and then again when I took the motor to the machine shop for the rebuild last fall. I have all of the water pump bolts that I removed in zip locked bag and labeled.  Iíll also look for witness marks on the pump ( the pump is uncleaned other that what I did to see the casting  # & dates.
Iíll need a few days before I can respond back. 
Thank you.

- I love the wealth of knowledge from everyone on this forum.
It just amazes me ..

Fran

Craner

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Re: GT500KR Water Pump, Question about casting part number
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2021, 02:52:43 PM »
I have a few photos to share.
Engine casting date codes and bolts that where used to fasten the water pump(this is a photo right after the water pump plus a few other items were removed). I know for sure that I put the hardware back in the locations where they were originally installed. (I believe I have complete engine photos before any tear down too. )
It is interesting that 1 of the water pump fastening bolts was different and didn't have a washer.

Thank you for any feedback.
Fran




Bob Gaines

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Re: GT500KR Water Pump, Question about casting part number
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2021, 05:09:06 PM »
It is not too much of a stretch to think that upon replacement the same water pump fasteners were used in the same locations. We are only talking about 4 bolts after all.  Of course there is a possibility that it was not changed but given the evidence or lack of and others first hand study of similar engines what is more likely ? The water pump was replaced like so many have or it is a one of few or none anomaly? Occam's razor basically says "The simplest explanation for some phenomenon is more likely to be accurate than more complicated explanations ".  I think it will be difficult to convince most knowledgeable Ford enthusiasts of the possible anomaly. At the end of the day it is your car so do what you think is right for you. Best of luck regardless.   
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Royce Peterson

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Re: GT500KR Water Pump, Question about casting part number
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2021, 09:50:22 PM »
Disagree completely. No way a 428 from DEP could be assembled and shipped to Metuchen and installed in a week.


The time between when the block was cast and the scheduled build date of the car could be as short as a week. The average length was longer, but it depends on your specific set of dates.

At some periods during production the times were extended. There are no hard fast guidelines
1968 Cougar XR-7 GT-E 427 Side Oiler C6 3.50 Detroit Locker
1968 1/2 Cougar XR-7 428CJ Ram Air C6 3.91 Traction Lock

TLea

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Re: GT500KR Water Pump, Question about casting part number
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2021, 08:20:07 PM »
Disagree completely. No way a 428 from DEP could be assembled and shipped to Metuchen and installed in a week.
Oh there be a way. Many documented case show otherwise. I have one example of Jan 6 head casting dates, Jan 10 engine assembly and Jan 17 metuchen build date. And yes head has VIN stamp

Royce Peterson

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Re: GT500KR Water Pump, Question about casting part number
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2021, 09:04:55 PM »
Replacement engine.


Disagree completely. No way a 428 from DEP could be assembled and shipped to Metuchen and installed in a week.
Oh there be a way. Many documented case show otherwise. I have one example of Jan 6 head casting dates, Jan 10 engine assembly and Jan 17 metuchen build date. And yes head has VIN stamp
1968 Cougar XR-7 GT-E 427 Side Oiler C6 3.50 Detroit Locker
1968 1/2 Cougar XR-7 428CJ Ram Air C6 3.91 Traction Lock

TLea

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Re: GT500KR Water Pump, Question about casting part number
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2021, 12:17:01 AM »
Replacement engine.
Uh huh sure. Nice try   You may want to go back and reread the post about the heads that had the VIN stamped in them. Pretty sure they werenít doing that on replacement engines