The Cars > 1968 Shelby GT350/500/500KR

428CJ Starter, FE hot start real or?

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Craner:
GT500KR Starter, should I rebuild it orÖ.? To prevent hot starting potential problem.

This car had the starter replaced under warranty at Gotham Ford @ 2836 miles. From what I can determine by reading the shop order, it was related to heated starting. The starter was replaced with PN C8AZ 11002 A. ($27.18)

The case stamping and front nose casting engineering numbers) donít seem right, but this may have been replaced again at some point. ( 15k mile on odometer)

If this car has good cabling, battery, starter solenoid and grounding, can I use an original starter without having starter ď failureĒ due to heat?

Iíve included photos of the starter markings for any comments..

PrettyMuchAShelbyGuy:
I had a horrible hot start problem on a 428 cobra jet back in the day, even with good strong battery cables and good grounding. I think the core issue is more around the rebuilt starters just donít have the torque that a new manufacture starter would. You might also want to check the cooling system to make sure itís cooling as good as it can and not running hot.

shelbydoug:
First off, you are presuming that the starter was replaced due to starter failure. It is more likely that it was just how the service department reacted to a hard start complaint.

Welcome to the world of big block Mustangs.


There are several things going on with hot re-starts. It isn't necessarily that the car is over heating. It probably wasn't.

On a stock BB, you get heat soak of the carb within a half a minute or so of shutting down and often vapor lock in the fuel line.

The original carb gaskets are not heat isolating parts.

SOMETIMES the fuel will BOIL out of the bowls and SPILL INTO THE INTAKE MANIFOLD and flood the engine out.

In addition, the original battery cables and starter cable are too small a gauge.


You need to deal with those issues first.


Some have found using an aftermarket type of starter necessary. I use them on all three of my cars. It isn't just the BB's that can have issues but I'd recommend that you go to at least a 0 gauge cable. A 00 is what I use as well as dealing with isolating the carb(s) and fuel lines. Success so far.

ACCELL makes a large type starter that looks just like the original Ford. You can camouflage it to look like the Ford. That one I have in my Pantera. Without that starter, the car can be temperamental on a hot restart depending on the circumstances.



My GT500 and GT350 both have Tilton race starters in them. Those happen to be re-packaged Toyota starters. They are both fantastic and have never failed.

If you intend to show the car in judged Concourse, go the ACCELL big starter route with a can of Ford blue spray paint.



My '67 GT500 AND '68 GT350, both benefited from replacing the original fuel log with a Delrin fuel log. That really helps. You could feel the original fuel log very hot to the touch on hot engine. Too hot to touch really.

Delrin never gets hot or cold. It does not absorb or loose heat calories. The fuel log will not be hot to the touch on a hot engine. So the fuel in it won't be heated either.

There is also a Delrin fuel pump gasket that helps isolate the mechanical fuel pump from the engine block.



All three needed the heavy gauge cables. The GT350 is a 347 and was really having hot restart issues. It has 2-4's on a C60A "trans-am" intake so it got a Delrin fuel log also.


I should mention that drag racers often use carb heat isolaters made of PLYWOOD.  Mine are just plain ole' black Delrin.


So here's the thing. You can be original or you can eliminate the problems. You can't have both simultaneously.

TLea:
First of all that is not an original cobra jet starter. Cobra jet starter should have a C8 AF. Second of all thatís just for a point of authenticity having the right starter. The problem with the starters is the people that rebuild them donít really know what theyíre doing. The guy I use can make a high powered starter out of any case itís all about the windings and setting it up and building it correctly. Weíve probably got 40 or 50 big block rebuilds and Iíve never had an issue

Bob Gaines:

--- Quote from: TLea on October 24, 2021, 05:32:16 PM ---First of all that is not an original cobra jet starter. Cobra jet starter should have a C8 AF. Second of all thatís just for a point of authenticity having the right starter. The problem with the starters is the people that rebuild them donít really know what theyíre doing. The guy I use can make a high powered starter out of any case itís all about the windings and setting it up and building it correctly. Weíve probably got 40 or 50 big block rebuilds and Iíve never had an issue

--- End quote ---
+1 what he said.  High torque windings are what I get my rebuilder to use. They cost more but have benefits . Also your timing has to be right to allow the engine to spin easier. A over bored engine that gets hot will also complicate things. Some rebuilt engines are built tight which buts a strain on a hot starter. If you are running headers you can try to heat wrap the starter but if you already gone down the day 2 road just get one of the various make gear reduced starters and be done with it. If you have gone headers the authenticity of the original starter will not make a difference one way or the other.

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