Author Topic: Cobra Owners -> '63 Fairlane w/ K Code Driveline on Craigslist  (Read 1346 times)

JWH

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Cobra Owners -> '63 Fairlane w/ K Code Driveline on Craigslist
« on: January 22, 2022, 11:39:21 PM »
Here is a Craigslist ad for a 1963 Fairlane advertised to have an original K Code driveline

https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/d/westminster-1963-code-ford-fairlane-500/7436016100.html

63 k code orig 289 hipo engine, 4 speed, single exhaust, 9" rear 43k orig miles. Not orig radiator or carb. Runs but needs tune and valves adjusted I'm sure. Been sitting many years. Side trim superb, paint is partially original, rust above rear wheels and behind front wheels. Factory reverb in the trunk, drives excellent. I bought from orig owners family and was going to restore but recent health issues is preventing that. Looking for best cash offer or a trade, 1961 through 1972 American car plus or minus cash no projects. If I could do a semi project, this one would be it. If you're inquiring, you know what this is, please make the trade worth you knowing what this is as well. I do like strong cars that need rear tires often...opportunity of a lifetime in my opinion. If you wanted Fords new hipo 289 engine in 1963 you could only get it on a Fairlane or an AC Cobra from Shelby.
Looking for a trade but if cash is all you have make an offer, I don't have a set price. Id put it on ebay if I wanted just cash. Last picture is an email I got from a guy who has 2 of these. Yes the engines go into the 63 cobras and are correct thus the price but it should give an idea of value since I've been asked many times.

Scode67FB

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Re: Cobra Owners -> '63 Fairlane w/ K Code Driveline on Craigslist
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2022, 04:15:45 AM »
It's an interesting car, but I thought the early HiPos didn't get the VIN stamped on the block?

shelbydoug

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Re: Cobra Owners -> '63 Fairlane w/ K Code Driveline on Craigslist
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2022, 06:51:30 AM »
You may be in a slightly different world of how the K cars were built then since it is so early?

For one thing, I see a vacuum advance on the distributor?

Are you sure that you can compare a 64-5 hp to a '63 and expect exactly the same build method? I'm not and I'm not sure that a 289 Cobra engine should be the yardstick to compare to?
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Dan Case

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Re: Cobra Owners -> '63 Fairlane w/ K Code Driveline on Craigslist
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2022, 08:06:22 AM »
289 High Performance engine production started the first week of March 1963. The first ignition distributor for them was very similar to the 260 High Performance engine made in small numbers. The first production C3OF-12127-F mechanical dual point units were built up from an existing main housings. Those housings had large holes where vacuum advance units went on single point vacuum advance assemblies. Housings for advance units were made with no internal parts and a steel plug was included to close off the big holes in the housings.

Circa June 1963 a running change occurred introducing a new housing for mechanical dual point units without provision for vacuum advance in new engines, the new assembly was C3OF-12127-D. Yes suffixes do not seem to make order sense but preproduction test engine samples under both numbers have been seen dated in 1962. (Dates sub assemblies were made, dates they went into new engines at the Ford engine plant, when a vehicle was scheduled to be assembled or when it was actually manufactured are all different subjects.)

Yes, Cobras received engines manufactured that way. Ford made the engines and somebody pulled engines from stock and sent them to a vehicle assembly plant. Random chance dictated whether a new HP289 engine found its way to a Fairlane, a Cobra, or something else. Cobra wise, for their use, Ford iron exhaust manifolds got replaced by AC Cars supplied Cobra parts for the job and an oil temperature sensor was added to the oil pan.  Chassis CSX2001 through CSX2125 used a 1962 Fairlane 260 fuel pump made by Holley Carburetor Company. CSX2126 onward used a 1963 Fairlane fuel pump.

All Experimental High Performance 260, High Performance 260, and High Performance 289 engines made between 1962 and July 1964 were given serial numbers by Ford. Ford stopped giving HP289 engines serial numbers when the first HP289 engines of the new 1965 model year were made in August 1964. (Note: 1963-1964 HP289 engine serial numbers added to production engines by Ford in the Cleveland engine plant and chassis vehicle identification numbers Ford added to engines going into matching number new cars are totally different subjects.)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 10:54:43 AM by Dan Case »
Dan Case
1964 Cobra owner since 1983, Cobra crazy since I saw my first one in the mid 1960s in Huntsville, AL.

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Re: Cobra Owners -> '63 Fairlane w/ K Code Driveline on Craigslist
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2022, 08:45:23 AM »
There was not just one version of five bolt bell housing HP289 engine between the preproduction units made in 1962 and the strange engines made for new Cobras after six bolt engine production started. Ford made groups of subassembly changes in April 1963, May-June 1963, February 1964, April 1964, May 1964, June 1964, and August 1964 for Shelby American.

By far, the toughest engines to find day one parts for engineering and date codes wise is the version between the start of March 1963 and about April 15, 1963.

Having done so before three times, it is extremely time consuming and pretty expensive to come up with a completely like day one engine for a Fairlane or Cobra one part at a time.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 10:40:35 AM by Dan Case »
Dan Case
1964 Cobra owner since 1983, Cobra crazy since I saw my first one in the mid 1960s in Huntsville, AL.

shelbydoug

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Re: Cobra Owners -> '63 Fairlane w/ K Code Driveline on Craigslist
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2022, 09:22:04 AM »
Thank you Professor. I love attending your lectures.  ;D
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69mach351w

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Re: Cobra Owners -> '63 Fairlane w/ K Code Driveline on Craigslist
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2022, 12:18:29 PM »
Dan, comes through again with the encyclopaedic brain about those K's  ;)
Rich

shelbymann1970

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Re: Cobra Owners -> '63 Fairlane w/ K Code Driveline on Craigslist
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2022, 01:03:20 PM »
I know the original owner of one. His son says just 220 built and 75 out there found. Had 25K miles most from being towed to the dragway when the car was returned to the street in the early 90s. Blue, blue 4 speed bench seat. original 1963 plate is on the car.
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69mach351w

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Re: Cobra Owners -> '63 Fairlane w/ K Code Driveline on Craigslist
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2022, 01:18:26 PM »
I know the original owner of one. His son says just 220 built and 75 out there found. Had 25K miles most from being towed to the dragway when the car was returned to the street in the early 90s. Blue, blue 4 speed bench seat. original 1963 plate is on the car.
Sweet!

A friend of mine back in the mid/late 70's had a 64 Fairlane and I remember it being a 289 4-speed, but he swore it was a high performance (we didn't say Hipo back then ;)), So really I don't know positive if it was but that Fairlane ran like a scolded Dog.
It could've very well been a Hipo. But no one will ever know  :o

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Re: Cobra Owners -> '63 Fairlane w/ K Code Driveline on Craigslist
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2022, 04:41:19 PM »
I know the original owner of one. His son says just 220 built and 75 out there found. Had 25K miles most from being towed to the dragway when the car was returned to the street in the early 90s. Blue, blue 4 speed bench seat. original 1963 plate is on the car.

Not all March 1963 through June 1963 289 High Performance engines went into Fairlanes but Ford shipped out to some assembly plant or another over 1,500 engines made in those months. No HP289 engines were made in July 1963. The 1964 run was longer between August 1963 and July 1964. Bob Mannel indicates Ford shipped out about 5,400 1964 model year engines. The highest serial numbered engine we know is also the most recent manufacturing date we know. The engine number is just under 6,500 and the assembly date was July 11, 1964. 500+ engines combined, including 1963 and 1964 engines, went to Shelby American. Starting June 8, 1964 Bob Mannel reports that Mustangs started getting 1964 five bolt HP289 engines until the six bolt production models started in August.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 04:44:28 PM by Dan Case »
Dan Case
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Re: Cobra Owners -> '63 Fairlane w/ K Code Driveline on Craigslist
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2022, 05:01:28 PM »
Dan, comes through again with the encyclopaedic brain about those K's  ;)
Rich

289 High Performance engines made between prototypes through preproduction and then production makes for a very complicated study. To have any clue how one might have been assembled in Cleveland you have to know the engine assembly date and the engine sequential serial number. Why? Because dates and serial numbers did not align in strict order of manufacturer. Ford made changes often.

Just for 1963-64, quick ones that come to mind:
-   More than one raw block casting was used to build 289 High Performance engine block assemblies.
-   Two different ignition distributors.
-   More than one revision level of secondary ignition wires.
-   Four different carburetors.
-   More than one carburetor spacer.
-   Multiple PCV valve systems and valves.
-   Engines for use with manual transmissions and late in 1964 production ones of automatic transmissions.
-   Two different versions of special water pump assemblies (two impeller sizes)
-   Three different cylinder head castings.
-   At least three versions of cast iron intake manifold.
-   At two different timing cover assemblies.
-   More than one fuel pump and filter assembly.
-  Two different starters.
To add to the fun dealing with these engines Ford did not service every part that went into them. I go looking in old Ford Master Parts Catalogs and some little parts are not in exploded view drawings or in service parts lists.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 06:14:28 PM by Dan Case »
Dan Case
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Survivor

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Re: Cobra Owners -> '63 Fairlane w/ K Code Driveline on Craigslist
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2022, 10:03:26 AM »
So, are we saying the engine in the listing appears correct?

shelbymann1970

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Re: Cobra Owners -> '63 Fairlane w/ K Code Driveline on Craigslist
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2022, 11:30:30 AM »
I know the original owner of one. His son says just 220 built and 75 out there found. Had 25K miles most from being towed to the dragway when the car was returned to the street in the early 90s. Blue, blue 4 speed bench seat. original 1963 plate is on the car.
Sweet!

A friend of mine back in the mid/late 70's had a 64 Fairlane and I remember it being a 289 4-speed, but he swore it was a high performance (we didn't say Hipo back then ;)), So really I don't know positive if it was but that Fairlane ran like a scolded Dog.
It could've very well been a Hipo. But no one will ever know  :o
This car I posted above was Ford's test vehicle for a manual 3 speed on the floor. His dad bought it off of the "B" lot in 1963.
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Dan Case

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Re: Cobra Owners -> '63 Fairlane w/ K Code Driveline on Craigslist
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2022, 01:43:08 PM »
So, are we saying the engine in the listing appears correct?

Looks can be deceiving.  I would not recommend a purchase or emulation based only on that partial engine picture and the text going with it.  The advertisement calls out an incorrect carburetor and that is a rare big expense item. It does not have the fuel pump or ignition coil it would have had day one. The correct fuel pump has gotten very expensive as even a nasty core and pre-1965 ignition coils that can be cosmetically restored are not all that easy to come up with. The orange oil fill cap is not in focus well and might not be an assembly line one painted over;  originals are very tough to find in good to great condition. We cannot see the PCV system. New old stock PCV valves are not that rare but all the other system bits are.

Cars with 289 High Performance engines tended to be abused, they were made for that. Engine repairs and or updates were common.  You never know for sure what is in an engine until you dismantle it.  Example, a common finding in "unrestored" engines are cylinder head assemblies from a later time frame. Ford started making HP289 head castings with new a combustion chamber shape in March 1964. The head assemblies with new combustion chamber shape received larger diameter intake valves. Some people updated prior engines. Or, just something happened to the engine's original parts over time. We bought with car with whose original engine was assembled in August 1964. Upon disassembly we found head castings were produced in very late 1965. The seller of the car claimed that the engine was all original, meaning at the time, just as Ford built it.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 04:27:24 PM by Dan Case »
Dan Case
1964 Cobra owner since 1983, Cobra crazy since I saw my first one in the mid 1960s in Huntsville, AL.