65/66 sway bar appearance

[gt350hr]

     Charles,
       That is entirely possible, Stroppe used H&L Metals also on Signal Hill for all of their bending as they didn't have a tube / steel bender.

[Bob Gaines]

65 /66 1 inch sway bar used on the GT350 is a different shape and different diameter compared to the 67/68 15/16 diameter sway bar used on the Shelby.

Ok, I was thinking that. 

Back to my original post with the image of the stack of sway bars.  I don't agree that those are take-off bars, they look like 1" bars.  And the whole point of posting that is to show that there appears to be a shine to the bars, like they were painted.

The other pic I posted of underside is likely an early prototype, as noting slot screws for the oil pan... I'm not sure that comparing that car to other normal production cars would help what we're discussing.  Maybe it would have been best that I didn't post it.

Where I'm at with all this is:
      -the stock Mustang 65-66 13/16" sway bars were not painted, they were a heat treated dark appearance
      -there may have been 2 suppliers of '65 (or possibly '66) 1" SA sway bars.  Based on the LAX pic, some of the '65 ones may have been painted black (as they do appear to be painted, at least to me)

The pile does not look like it is effectively staged for items ready to be installed on the SA assemblyline. The pile looks typical of a haphazard junk pile of take off parts would have been treated based on other type pictures. I have seen SA pictures of piles take off cast iron intakes and exhaust manifolds stacked up in similar fashion . To me the bars look thinner then 1 inch . The eyelet ends look different and the shiny black paint looks different. That is the reason I have my point of view. If you don't agree with my opinion then lets agree to disagree.

[CharlesTurner]

The pile does not look like it is effectively staged for items ready to be installed on the SA assemblyline. The pile looks typical of a haphazard junk pile of take off parts would have been treated based on other type pictures. I have seen SA pictures of piles take off cast iron intakes and exhaust manifolds stacked up in similar fashion . To me the bars look thinner then 1 inch . The eyelet ends look different and the shiny black paint looks different. That is the reason I have my point of view. If you don't agree with my opinion then lets agree to disagree.

How do you explain the larger 1" style sway bar to body bushings on them?   That style bushing was never used on the assembly line 13/16" sway bar.

The eyelet ends look exactly like the sway bar on 5S003.

[s2ms]

Agreed on the Ford assembly plant installed sway bars.....

When did the 65-66 GT350 sway bars start being installed at SJ?

[CharlesTurner]

When did the 65-66 GT350 sway bars start being installed at SJ?

Good question... I side-stepped that one a bit in my responses :-)

If SJ ever did them, my guess would be in the '66 model year.

[gt350hr]

   I have never seen anything to show they did install them there until '67 when they were on the DSO sheets. If some one has a '66 DSO sheet it would certainly be called out there IF SJ did it on the line.

[J_Speegle]

   I have never seen anything to show they did install them there until '67 when they were on the DSO sheets. If some one has a '66 DSO sheet it would certainly be called out there IF SJ did it on the line.

For 66 production the 1" bars were not installed at San Jose but at Shelby. Interesting part (my opinion) is that the cars were built without sway bars but hardware was included with the cars- Brackets, bolts and end links

[s2ms]

   I have never seen anything to show they did install them there until '67 when they were on the DSO sheets. If some one has a '66 DSO sheet it would certainly be called out there IF SJ did it on the line.

For 66 production the 1" bars were not installed at San Jose but at Shelby. Interesting part (my opinion) is that the cars were built without sway bars but hardware was included with the cars- Brackets, bolts and end links

Thanks, was asking because I had not heard anything about 65-66 bars being installed at SJ. The "French Film" shows a pile of bars at SAI in early March 1966, screenshot from the 1:57 mark.....

[Bob Gaines]

   I have never seen anything to show they did install them there until '67 when they were on the DSO sheets. If some one has a '66 DSO sheet it would certainly be called out there IF SJ did it on the line.

For 66 production the 1" bars were not installed at San Jose but at Shelby. Interesting part (my opinion) is that the cars were built without sway bars but hardware was included with the cars- Brackets, bolts and end links

Thanks, was asking because I had not heard anything about 65-66 bars being installed at SJ. The "French Film" shows a pile of bars at SAI in early March 1966, screenshot from the 1:57 mark.....

That is a example of a neat organized stack. I may be missing it but I don't see any bushings installed on the bars .Unfortunately the resolution is not good enough to make out what the end link eyelet looks like.

[Karguy]

Bob and Charles, since the two of you have essentially agreed to disagree, or so it appears, how would your differing opinions affect Concours judging? Just curious how situations like this work out at a SAAC or MCA concours event.

[Bob Gaines]

Bob and Charles, since the two of you have essentially agreed to disagree, or so it appears, how would your differing opinions affect Concours judging? Just curious how situations like this work out at a SAAC or MCA concours event.

In respect to what specifically ?

[J_Speegle]

Often, if there is a disagreement within the team that is judging your car, it's discussed and if there is not an agreement and the rules are not specific, then the detail and in turn car, gets the benefit of doubt for that event. The team can also, if possible on site, get input from a third party if time and situation allows.  The benefit of doubt agreement would include the agreement, within the group, to research further and agree to come together before the next show so they are all informed. Just about always the owner is also contacted so they benefit from the research and the sheets/rules can be modified if its felt the recording of the outcome would benefit others in the future.

In almost all situations the point or so that the details is assigned does not make a difference in award possibly being earned at the show.

At least that is how we have agreed in similar situations that I've seen.

[Karguy]

I suppose in regards to how you would each judge the same concourse level one car if you each have a different opinion on the swaybar finish or shape. Just curious. Looks like Jeff just answered my question. Thank you

[CharlesTurner]

Let's see if I can help explain why I think that pile of sway bars on the floor at LAX are 1" bars...

Below are 3 pics:

The first is the 1" style sway bar to body bushing.  SA sourced Ford for the bushing (C0AA-5493-A) and the bracket (C0DD-5486-A)

Second pic is what the regular Mustang sway bar to body bushing looked like.  Note it did not have the cupped sides like the Shelby bushing.

Last pic is a blow up of the stack of sway bars... there are 4 bushings showing clearly, they all have the cupped sides, which is why I don't think they are Mustang take-off bars.

[CharlesTurner]

Throwing an additional pic out there for consideration... this is the '65 GT350 parts layout photo, not sure if it was Venice or LAX... most likely LAX.  A close up of the sway bar shows a high reflection like paint.  Unfortunately, I don't have a better resolution.

For at least '65 GT350, my suggestion would be that natural OR painted black were possible.



Original pic: