65 Hipo Engine Balance

[mygt350]

Bob
That makes perfect sense to include the stuff unique to a standard. In the case of an automatic, wonder if they balanced the engine and  flexplate with auto trans mounted?

[Bob Gaines]

Bob
That makes perfect sense to include the stuff unique to a standard. In the case of an automatic, wonder if they balanced the engine and  flexplate with auto trans mounted?

I wish I knew for sure .

[mygt350]

Did auto transmissions have a removable access plate at front lower half that may be used to add weight if there was an imbalance issue? Know the standard shift plate was one piece. But since the torque converter mounts to the flexplate, the mounting bolts go thru the flexplate and thread into the converter. Only way to do that is a access plate. May be how they final balanced a engine with automatic transmission.

[J_Speegle]

Did auto transmissions have a removable access plate at front lower half that may be used to add weight if there was an imbalance issue? Know the standard shift plate was one piece. But since the torque converter mounts to the flexplate, the mounting bolts go thru the flexplate and thread into the converter. Only way to do that is a access plate. May be how they final balanced a engine with automatic transmission.

Since the lower access plate does not bolt to the flexplate it adds no weight to the rotating assembly just like the engine plate. It simply bolts to the bellhousing and because of this is was not in place when the engines were test run on the carriers.

There may be some confusion where some of use may have seen pictures of the engineering testing of completely assembled engines with transmissions and not the test running of the production engines before they were sent to the car assembly plant. Very different process

[gt350hr]

   "Adjustments " to the flex plates were done by spot welding various tabs of steel to the flex plate. On a manual , "plugs" were added to the round holes ( spring locator) or smaller tabs were added to the pressure plate by spot welding. My information came from Dan Nowak , a former DEP dyno operator.

[Helmantel]

   It was to counteract the heavier rods ( big end weight) It was also used on other "non production" engines like the Tunnel Port 302 and Boss 302 T/A engines.

I read that the reason for the hatched was to move some of the counterweight a little more inwards. The increase from 28 oz.inch inbalance to ~30 for the Hipo made the front end counterweight too heavy (too much bending forces) and so a 25 oz.in damper and 5 oz.in hatchet were used instead.

Any truth to that? It sounds logical in one way, but also like a lot of effort for a modest improvement.

[mlplunkett]

While you guys are thinking about harmonic balancers, can someone clue me in on what currently available balancer I should use on a new build (302) that would most accurately resemble/replicate the Hipo balancer used on the R model cars. Even if I could find an original or vintage copy, it doesn't seem like a great idea to put a 60 year old balancer on a new motor.

[CharlesTurner]

While you guys are thinking about harmonic balancers, can someone clue me in on what currently available balancer I should use on a new build (302) that would most accurately resemble/replicate the Hipo balancer used on the R model cars. Even if I could find an original or vintage copy, it doesn't seem like a great idea to put a 60 year old balancer on a new motor.

Original balancers can be rebuilt.  Otherwise, there was a C8 replacement available through Ford, they are usually half or less than half the cost of an original C5 balancer.

[1175]

https://store.cobraautomotive.com/harmonic-balancer-63-67-289-hi-po-28-oz-external-balance-for-3-bolt-crank-pulley/

[pbf777]

............... can someone clue me in on what currently available balancer..................... that would most accurately resemble/replicate the Hipo balancer used on the R model cars.

     This is a more complex problem than one might normally consider.  But first lets backup a bit, an not to berate anyone, but lets get our terminology right as there seem to be quite the variation of vocabulary used in the description of what otherwise would seem quite a simple device.   

     'Damper', 'Balancer', and with or without the word 'Harmonic' proceeding, these being the most common.  Proper termed "Harmonic Damper" or "Vibration Damper", would provide a more accurate description of the capital responsibility of this device, with the label of "balancer" only having any relevance in those engines which would exhibit an external 'counter-balance' sum being present as part of the damper unit's assembly but still probably not the better word to be applied.   

      So are you looking for a 'balancer', such a unit which would simulate the counter-balance sum as nearly as that as used in your inquiry; or a 'damper' that would provide the harmonic vibration damping value as near to that as of your inquiry, or one that just presents the best visual representation of the original?   

      Scott.

         

[J_Speegle]

While you guys are thinking about harmonic balancers, can someone clue me in on what currently available balancer I should use on a new build (302) that would most accurately resemble/replicate the Hipo balancer used on the R model cars. Even if I could find an original or vintage copy, it doesn't seem like a great idea to put a 60 year old balancer on a new motor.

Don't believe there is a reproduction of an R model balancer out there being made - available to simply order out of a catalog or web site.  As mentioned there are reproductions of the non-R model or the later C8 service replacements non-R model

[SFM5S000]

This IS an SAI R Model/Cobra FIA Balancer. It is fully degreed and machined in a certain way to the degree marks from the bevel. (See pics) This is the one on my car.
The R Model Balancer that CA offered at one time was close except the numbers were turned 90 degrees to the scribe marks but the machining details were correct.

Cheers,
~Earl J

[SFM5S000]

Here is a pic of the R Model Balancer that Cobra Automotive offered at one time. It was a special request as it was NOT in their catalog of parts. This was sent to me by Scott Hackenson before he retired or left CA.
Notice the placement/orientation of the numbers. Other than not having the cast Ford C3OE or C5OE markings in the front of the hub, it was identical to the SAI piece.

Cheers,
~Earl J

[mlplunkett]

https://store.cobraautomotive.com/harmonic-balancer-63-67-289-hi-po-28-oz-external-balance-for-3-bolt-crank-pulley/

To continue my series of dumb questions, will this harmonic balancer work on a later model 302 engine? Since I can't find a local engine builder I'm probably going to order a 302 stroker long block crate motor and add all the SAI externals to create the appearance of a Hipo.

[S7MS427]

https://store.cobraautomotive.com/harmonic-balancer-63-67-289-hi-po-28-oz-external-balance-for-3-bolt-crank-pulley/

To continue my series of dumb questions, will this harmonic balancer work on a later model 302 engine? Since I can't find a local engine builder I'm probably going to order a 302 stroker long block crate motor and add all the SAI externals to create the appearance of a Hipo.

mlplunkett, with out knowing any details about the crate motor, I'm going to say that the crate motor is probably already a balanced assembly.  Just throwing a different balancer on would likely destroy that balance. They really do need to be matched together.  It would probably work if you are willing to have a quality machine shop match the balance of the new part with the old part.  I'm sure others will chime in with their own opinions.

Best of luck with your project.