1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302

[deathsled]

An interesting review of the two engines.
https://youtu.be/VkJqw4Zx8M0

[Royce Peterson]

Interesting that Ford had a camshaft that had more lift and less duration. Also interesting to me - the Z28 was far more common even though the 302 version was only produced 1967 - 69. I can't recall ever seeing a 1970 (not a real model year at Chevy) or 71 Z28.

[deathsled]

I only saw 1970 Z/28 knock off cars myself. But growing up in Toronto, the US got all the hotter cars. Fact of life.

[sd427]

The 2nd generation Z28 Camaros starting in 1970 had the 350cc LT-1 motor.

[deathsled]

The 2nd generation Z28 Camaros starting in 1970 had the 350cc LT-1 motor.

Yes quite true. The Trans am Camaros had to be destroked to 5.0 to be allowed to compete however.

[crossboss]

The street versions of the Boss 302 and DZ302, were quite comparable in performance. Some points were better on the Boss, while the Z/28 had theirs also. Very closely matched. The T/A cars were just the opposite. The Boss had the horsepower advantage, while the Z had better weight bias. What made the difference, race to race: the drivers. Sometimes Parnelli had the advantage, sometimes Donohue. The rest is history...

[deathsled]

The street versions of the Boss 302 and DZ302, were quite comparable in performance. Some points were better on the Boss, while the Z/28 had theirs also. Very closely matched. The T/A cars were just the opposite. The Boss had the horsepower advantage, while the Z had better weight bias. What made the difference, race to race: the drivers. Sometimes Parnelli had the advantage, sometimes Donohue. The rest is history...

In 1969 I also believe that the Firestone wheels kept blowing out on the Boss 302 hampering Ford's Manufacturer's win.  (Among the other factors you mentioned.)

[crossboss]

The street versions of the Boss 302 and DZ302, were quite comparable in performance. Some points were better on the Boss, while the Z/28 had theirs also. Very closely matched. The T/A cars were just the opposite. The Boss had the horsepower advantage, while the Z had better weight bias. What made the difference, race to race: the drivers. Sometimes Parnelli had the advantage, sometimes Donohue. The rest is history...

In 1969 I also believe that the Firestone wheels kept blowing out on the Boss 302 hampering Ford's Manufacturer's win.  (Among the other factors you mentioned.)

It was among many things. The Firestone tires, American Racing wheels were known to crack. The biggest factor in the '69 T/A race was the St Jovite crash. It almost destroyed all the Boss cars in one fell swoop. They never recovered from it.

[TA Coupe]

Scott, the second I saw the topic for this discussion I knew you would hop on it .
Another big reason Ford lost in 69 was because Penske had wheels with the lug nuts attached to the wheels and the 200s wheels Ford started out using had to have every lug started by hand which was not easy to do. Fords pit stops cost them about 1min per stop because of those wheels, hard to make up for ☹️

        Roy

[FL SAAC]

Scott, the second I saw the topic for this discussion I knew you would hop on it .
Another big reason Ford lost in 69 was because Penske had wheels with the lug nuts attached to the wheels and the 200s wheels Ford started out using had to have every lug started by hand which was not easy to do. Fords pit stops cost them about 1min per stop because of those wheels, hard to make up for ☹️

        Roy

+ 1

[FL SAAC]

Have driven both cars and owned a 69 Z, the BOSS had more torque and power. 

But a nice set of 4 + gears would really awake either car and surprise anything on the street or track

[crossboss]

Roy,
Absolutely correct. Penske/Donohue were a force to be reckoned with. Remember, the book "The Unfair Advantage"? It was true...
Anyways, Chevy won '69, and Ford won 1970. Both excellent cars, and teams. We will never see it again...at least we can 'relive it' @ the vintage races!

[98SVT - was 06GT]

I was working at the local Chevy dealer (HS auto shop work experience) when their 1st 1967 Z28 rolled off the trailer. The UAW guys couldn't figure out how to install the Hurst shifter so I was tasked with fixing it. The trans/rearend guy I was working with told me to take it for a "good" test drive. Since school was just getting out that is where I took it to do some burnouts. When I got back the tuneup guy stuck it on the chassis dyno they had and he guestimated it was making 430+ hp at the crank.
That was the same engine design Chevy used for the whole series. After 67 Ford was playing catchup. The TP heads might have worked if Ford had let Shelby build the engines but the UAW guys didn't have the necessary tools/skills/parts to do it right. The cloned big block Chevy heads on the 302 did work but too many other problems beset the teams.
Penske perfected his wheel changing on pitstops when he changed the Javelins to 4 lug wheels - 20% less time tightening lugnuts - can anyone say "Unfair Advantage"?

[Side-Oilers]

My good friend Tom McIntyre (long-time CSX3000 owner) also owns/restored/vintage races the '68 T/A champion Camaro of Penske/Donahue. 

A lot of you have probably seen it run. Bitchin car.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

My good friend Tom McIntyre (long-time CSX3000 owner) also owns/restored/vintage races the '68 T/A champion Camaro of Penske/Donahue. 

A lot of you have probably seen it run. Bitchin car.

Another gem Tom found/restored before the old TA cars caught on and became kazillion dollar assets.