Author Topic: 1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302  (Read 1685 times)

deathsled

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1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302
« on: June 14, 2022, 10:19:40 AM »
An interesting review of the two engines.
https://youtu.be/VkJqw4Zx8M0
"Low she sits on five spoke wheels
Small block eight so live she feels
There she's parked beside the curb
Engine revving to disturb
She's the princess from his past
Red paint gold stripes damned she's fast"

Royce Peterson

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Re: 1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2022, 11:10:43 AM »
Interesting that Ford had a camshaft that had more lift and less duration. Also interesting to me - the Z28 was far more common even though the 302 version was only produced 1967 - 69. I can't recall ever seeing a 1970 (not a real model year at Chevy) or 71 Z28.
1968 Cougar XR-7 GT-E 427 Side Oiler C6 3.50 Detroit Locker
1968 1/2 Cougar XR-7 428CJ Ram Air C6 3.91 Traction Lock

deathsled

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Re: 1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2022, 11:26:01 AM »
I only saw 1970 Z/28 knock off cars myself. But growing up in Toronto, the US got all the hotter cars. Fact of life.
"Low she sits on five spoke wheels
Small block eight so live she feels
There she's parked beside the curb
Engine revving to disturb
She's the princess from his past
Red paint gold stripes damned she's fast"

sd427

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Re: 1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2022, 07:21:32 PM »
The 2nd generation Z28 Camaros starting in 1970 had the 350cc LT-1 motor.

deathsled

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Re: 1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2022, 10:02:04 PM »
The 2nd generation Z28 Camaros starting in 1970 had the 350cc LT-1 motor.
Yes quite true. The Trans am Camaros had to be destroked to 5.0 to be allowed to compete however.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 09:26:13 AM by deathsled »
"Low she sits on five spoke wheels
Small block eight so live she feels
There she's parked beside the curb
Engine revving to disturb
She's the princess from his past
Red paint gold stripes damned she's fast"

crossboss

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Re: 1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2022, 11:42:45 PM »
The street versions of the Boss 302 and DZ302, were quite comparable in performance. Some points were better on the Boss, while the Z/28 had theirs also. Very closely matched. The T/A cars were just the opposite. The Boss had the horsepower advantage, while the Z had better weight bias. What made the difference, race to race: the drivers. Sometimes Parnelli had the advantage, sometimes Donohue. The rest is history...
Past owned Shelby's:
1968 GT-350--Gold
1970 GT-500--#3129--Grabber Orange.
Current lifelong projects:
1969 Mustang Fastback/FOX chassis, 5 speed, 4 wheel discs, with a modern Can-Am 494 (Boss 429), Kaase heads, intake with a 1425 cfm 'B' Autolite Inline carb, ala Trans-Am style
1968/70 Olds 442 W-30

deathsled

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Re: 1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2022, 11:52:46 PM »
The street versions of the Boss 302 and DZ302, were quite comparable in performance. Some points were better on the Boss, while the Z/28 had theirs also. Very closely matched. The T/A cars were just the opposite. The Boss had the horsepower advantage, while the Z had better weight bias. What made the difference, race to race: the drivers. Sometimes Parnelli had the advantage, sometimes Donohue. The rest is history...
In 1969 I also believe that the Firestone wheels kept blowing out on the Boss 302 hampering Ford's Manufacturer's win.  (Among the other factors you mentioned.)
"Low she sits on five spoke wheels
Small block eight so live she feels
There she's parked beside the curb
Engine revving to disturb
She's the princess from his past
Red paint gold stripes damned she's fast"

crossboss

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Re: 1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2022, 12:43:42 AM »
The street versions of the Boss 302 and DZ302, were quite comparable in performance. Some points were better on the Boss, while the Z/28 had theirs also. Very closely matched. The T/A cars were just the opposite. The Boss had the horsepower advantage, while the Z had better weight bias. What made the difference, race to race: the drivers. Sometimes Parnelli had the advantage, sometimes Donohue. The rest is history...
In 1969 I also believe that the Firestone wheels kept blowing out on the Boss 302 hampering Ford's Manufacturer's win.  (Among the other factors you mentioned.)


It was among many things. The Firestone tires, American Racing wheels were known to crack. The biggest factor in the '69 T/A race was the St Jovite crash. It almost destroyed all the Boss cars in one fell swoop. They never recovered from it.
Past owned Shelby's:
1968 GT-350--Gold
1970 GT-500--#3129--Grabber Orange.
Current lifelong projects:
1969 Mustang Fastback/FOX chassis, 5 speed, 4 wheel discs, with a modern Can-Am 494 (Boss 429), Kaase heads, intake with a 1425 cfm 'B' Autolite Inline carb, ala Trans-Am style
1968/70 Olds 442 W-30

TA Coupe

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Re: 1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2022, 03:40:58 AM »
Scott, the second I saw the topic for this discussion I knew you would hop on it .
Another big reason Ford lost in 69 was because Penske had wheels with the lug nuts attached to the wheels and the 200s wheels Ford started out using had to have every lug started by hand which was not easy to do. Fords pit stops cost them about 1min per stop because of those wheels, hard to make up for ☹️

        Roy
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Overkill is just enough.

FL SAAC

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Re: 1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2022, 08:35:05 AM »
Scott, the second I saw the topic for this discussion I knew you would hop on it .
Another big reason Ford lost in 69 was because Penske had wheels with the lug nuts attached to the wheels and the 200s wheels Ford started out using had to have every lug started by hand which was not easy to do. Fords pit stops cost them about 1min per stop because of those wheels, hard to make up for ☹️

        Roy

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FL SAAC

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Re: 1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2022, 08:37:15 AM »
Have driven both cars and owned a 69 Z, the BOSS had more torque and power. 

But a nice set of 4 + gears would really awake either car and surprise anything on the street or track
Living RENT FREE in your minds...

Home of the Hertz Musketeers 

A person without a sense of humor is like a wagon without springs.  It's jolted by every pebble on the road

I have all UNGOLD cars

I am certainly not a Shelby Expert

Life is short B happy

crossboss

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Re: 1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2022, 11:51:50 AM »
Roy,
Absolutely correct. Penske/Donohue were a force to be reckoned with. Remember, the book "The Unfair Advantage"? It was true...
Anyways, Chevy won '69, and Ford won 1970. Both excellent cars, and teams. We will never see it again...at least we can 'relive it' @ the vintage races!
Past owned Shelby's:
1968 GT-350--Gold
1970 GT-500--#3129--Grabber Orange.
Current lifelong projects:
1969 Mustang Fastback/FOX chassis, 5 speed, 4 wheel discs, with a modern Can-Am 494 (Boss 429), Kaase heads, intake with a 1425 cfm 'B' Autolite Inline carb, ala Trans-Am style
1968/70 Olds 442 W-30

98SVT - was 06GT

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Re: 1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2022, 01:27:24 PM »
I was working at the local Chevy dealer (HS auto shop work experience) when their 1st 1967 Z28 rolled off the trailer. The UAW guys couldn't figure out how to install the Hurst shifter so I was tasked with fixing it. The trans/rearend guy I was working with told me to take it for a "good" test drive. Since school was just getting out that is where I took it to do some burnouts. When I got back the tuneup guy stuck it on the chassis dyno they had and he guestimated it was making 430+ hp at the crank.
That was the same engine design Chevy used for the whole series. After 67 Ford was playing catchup. The TP heads might have worked if Ford had let Shelby build the engines but the UAW guys didn't have the necessary tools/skills/parts to do it right. The cloned big block Chevy heads on the 302 did work but too many other problems beset the teams.
Penske perfected his wheel changing on pitstops when he changed the Javelins to 4 lug wheels - 20% less time tightening lugnuts - can anyone say "Unfair Advantage"?
Previous owner 6S843 - GT350H & 68 GT500 Convert #135.
Mine: GT1 Mustang Track Toy, 1998 SVT Cobra, Wife's: 2004 Tbird
Member since 1975 - priceless

Side-Oilers

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Re: 1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2022, 01:35:55 PM »
My good friend Tom McIntyre (long-time CSX3000 owner) also owns/restored/vintage races the '68 T/A champion Camaro of Penske/Donahue. 

A lot of you have probably seen it run. Bitchin car.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 01:53:31 PM by Side-Oilers »
Current:
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Formerly:
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98SVT - was 06GT

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Re: 1969 Boss 302 versus Chevy DZ302
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2022, 02:19:36 PM »
My good friend Tom McIntyre (long-time CSX3000 owner) also owns/restored/vintage races the '68 T/A champion Camaro of Penske/Donahue. 

A lot of you have probably seen it run. Bitchin car.


Another gem Tom found/restored before the old TA cars caught on and became kazillion dollar assets.
Previous owner 6S843 - GT350H & 68 GT500 Convert #135.
Mine: GT1 Mustang Track Toy, 1998 SVT Cobra, Wife's: 2004 Tbird
Member since 1975 - priceless