Author Topic: C7ZE-A HiPo heads  (Read 1005 times)

Bossbill

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C7ZE-A HiPo heads
« on: June 15, 2018, 03:29:48 PM »
I've now come across two HiPo engines in Shelbys that have C7ZE-A heads. I lead a sheltered life.

Mannel's H6 section makes the inference (maybe it's just me) that these heads were made specifically for the introduction of T/E in April of 1967.
However, it appears the base head with all of the required features for T/E was made well before that date --  I have now seen two examples of C7ZE-A heads cast in December 1966.

I know it's tough to view the extra casting around the exhaust port that identifies these heads externally, but I'm wondering who has seen or have these C7ZE-A heads and what would be the earliest date of introduction?

I have other questions about these heads, but let's start with introduction date.
Bill

67 GT350 3/2/67
70 B302   6/6/70 0T02G160xxx

silverton_ford

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Re: C7ZE-A HiPo heads
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2018, 04:33:08 PM »
I have a pair dated 7B3 without T/E.
Thank you, Brian Littlefield

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and a few other Fords.

gt350hr

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Re: C7ZE-A HiPo heads
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2018, 05:18:36 PM »
 Bill,
    Ford cast engine parts in advance of vehicle introduction so engines would be available when new model production started. C7ZE heads were produced with and without the smog passages drilled. The addition of the boss interferes with the flow characteristics and made those castings less desireable to "hot rodders" in the day" Companies like Crane , Mondello, Valley Head Service , etc shunned the C7ZE head in favor of the C5OE castings. They were of course standard equipment on every '67 GT350 or K code Mustang produced. I have never seen a '67 with a C50E head "from the Cleveland engine plant " unless they were added after the car was sold by SAI.
   Randy
Celebrating 44 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

Bossbill

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Re: C7ZE-A HiPo heads
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2018, 05:56:09 PM »
Randy -- I got the idea of a later introduction of the C7 head from the Mannel book:
7B2 -- "Through the early part of 1967, the 289 HiPo head was the same as in 1965/66.
... So about in April 1967, Ford responded by incorporating the external air log T/E system into the Cleveland designed HiPo heads. Ford also changed the head casting number by marking one side C7ZE."
H6 -- "In 1967, Ford used two different cylinder heads for the 289 HiPo.The first head was a continuation of the C5OE-A head used since 1965."

You can see why I asked the question! I'm not doubting you -- just showing why the question arose.

I don't have the benefit of viewing large numbers of these cars out in the wild. I can't count on the examples I see in club venues as being correct.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 06:11:02 PM by Bossbill »
Bill

67 GT350 3/2/67
70 B302   6/6/70 0T02G160xxx

Bossbill

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Re: C7ZE-A HiPo heads
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2018, 06:17:20 PM »
I've learned a long time ago that in forums you ask only one pertinent question at a time. Combining many questions in one post always leads the discussion off track.

So, 67 GT350s came with Cleveland Foundry C7ZE heads right out of the gate.

When was the first 67202 or 67203 made -- the first T/E car?

Bill

67 GT350 3/2/67
70 B302   6/6/70 0T02G160xxx

gt350cs

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Re: C7ZE-A HiPo heads
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2018, 07:06:04 PM »
From what I can tell the 67202 and 67203 both began production in mid May 1967. I don't have full access to my Data Base right now, but I think the mid May is what you will find. I also believe that the 67212 and 67213 were at about the same time.

SFM5S000

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Re: C7ZE-A HiPo heads
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2018, 09:34:17 PM »
I too own a set of C7ZE HiPo heads without the T/E dated 7B3. My set have been beautifully and fully ported with banana ports welded closed. 47cc chambers with the porters stamp HU (according to Randy these were done my Louie Unser or "Heads by Unser" as I was told.
Also, with 1.94 and 1.600 valves.

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~Earl J
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 "      "         "    2012

1175

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Re: C7ZE-A HiPo heads
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2018, 12:25:46 AM »
All but very early 67 k codes should have the C7ZE heads based on my research.  Prior to Dec 66, I believe should be C5OE castings. I think first castings were dec 66 and I have seen both thermactor and non thermactor versions.  The next batch I have seen would be 7B3 dated ones followed by 7E8 dates and 7E11 dates.  By June 67, they were replaced by the C8ZE heads. I have seen those both drilled and not drilled.

I have yet to see a Jan, March or April 67 dated head.  Not to say they don’t exist, but I have not seen any.

Jon
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 12:28:16 AM by 1175 »

Bossbill

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Re: C7ZE-A HiPo heads
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2018, 07:45:57 PM »
The heads on my car are the 6M8 C7ZE non-T/E heads. Meaning, no drilled holes.
The next set I looked at were 6M22 C7ZE T/E heads with drilled holes, but capped.

I'm waiting to see how much information the owner wants to share about the later.
Bill

67 GT350 3/2/67
70 B302   6/6/70 0T02G160xxx

Bossbill

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Re: C7ZE-A HiPo heads
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2018, 07:15:02 PM »
Does anyone have any C7ZE heads earlier than 6M8?
Bill

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70 B302   6/6/70 0T02G160xxx

gt350cs

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Re: C7ZE-A HiPo heads
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2018, 10:49:16 AM »
Bill,

I had the opportunity to look closer at my records this morning and found the following first date of production for the Thermactor cars:

67202 - Tuesday - May 16, 1967: 02584, 02585, 02586, 02587, 02588 and 02703

67203 - Wednesday - May 17, 1967: 02543, 02589 and 02590

67212 - Tuesday - May 16, 1967: 02546, 02591, 02594, 02595 and 02659

67213 - Monday – May 15, 1967: 02466, 02467 and 02666

Since the motor in 02584 was replaced in the early 1970s, I cannot give you any information on the heads. Hopefully someday someone will reunite the motor with the car, though probably not in my lifetime.

Hopes this helps you in your research,

Dennis





gt350hr

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Re: C7ZE-A HiPo heads
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2018, 11:20:20 AM »
   BossBill,
     
        While to some not agreeing with Bob Mannel is akin to tugging on Superman's cape , I offer the following.
  The use of additional engine items "requires"  planning by the Experimental Engine group so the prints/ processes can be implemented . There is allot of paperwork (red tape) involved with the process and all changes MUST be finalized before parts can be produced. In the case of the 289 high po thermactor equipped engine It would have to be "ready to go"  by new model introduction. Engines would be pre built and sent to the appropriate vehicle assembly plant. To test Bob Mannel's  statement we would have to see an early '67 where the DSO or the Marti calls out the thermactor. I know the DSO calls out the thermactor as I have a set of DSO papers for a group of 350s with the thermactor engine. There are many low serial # owners in SAAC and if one of them is certain they have THE original engine/components in their car it would be interesting to see which heads they have. The date code is easily seen and would correlate to a casting number without pulling the  head.
    BTW the heads are designed in Dearborn and cast in Cleveland. Plus I want to make it perfectly clear that I feel Bob's book is THE finest book EVER on the small block Ford engine. I have been "hot rodding" them since '65 but still learned a few things and saw pictures of parts I had never seen. A small amount of items out there still didn't make the book because no one can be "everywhere" or  know it "all".
      Randy
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Bossbill

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Re: C7ZE-A HiPo heads
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2018, 05:54:06 PM »
I agree that Bob's book is the definitive small block tome. I haven't implied anything else.

Your reply to my first post stated that " They [C7ZEs] were of course standard equipment on every '67 GT350 or K code Mustang produced."
I added Bob's quotes to say that he had seen early HiPos with C5OE-A heads and that later Ford switched to C7ZEs.

Later I stated "So, 67 GT350s came with Cleveland Foundry C7ZE heads right out of the gate" so we could get beyond either statement and move on to the title topic.

Due to flow time the C7ZEs came out many months before the requirement (April) to fit them to the HiPo. As noted earlier, I have a set of 6M8 C7ZE heads with no holes. I also have some pictures of a 6M22 C7ZE head with the holes but they are plugged.

Since there is a many month lead time between head introduction and delivery of the car this suggests that some HiPo engines may have been delivered in the April/May (or even later) time frame with the C7ZE plugged heads if the supply of T/E heads was greater than non-T/E heads.

Bill

67 GT350 3/2/67
70 B302   6/6/70 0T02G160xxx

gt350hr

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Re: C7ZE-A HiPo heads
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2018, 06:50:54 PM »
   Bill we are all good. My concern ( Maybe "I" need proof") is of a C5OE head on a '67 engine from the Cleveland engine plant. Maybe a 6L or M date code too.
   Randy
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J_Speegle

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Re: C7ZE-A HiPo heads
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2018, 08:48:29 PM »
Since there is a many month lead time between head introduction and delivery of the car this suggests that some HiPo engines may have been delivered in the April/May (or even later) time frame with the C7ZE plugged heads if the supply of T/E heads was greater than non-T/E heads.

I think this may be an assumption without a basis.  Many things "could” have happened but the availability of parts does not mean IMHO that something did take place.  Not like the plant could not just make more head or would use heads designed for another application in the middle of the production year. Just saying ;)

I've not see evidence of this on Hipo nor non-hipos delivered to states and regions that didn't require thermactor systems over 40 plus years
Jeff Speegle- Mustang & Shelby detail collector, ConcoursMustang.com babysitter :) and Judge