Author Topic: Race Fuels, Additives, and Octane Booste? What's real, what's BS, what to use?  (Read 2308 times)

Blackcar

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Tetraethyl lead is still available this is what was removed from leaded gasoline  for purchase in quart bottles 1.8oz to 1 gallon adds 5 points. Octane supreme 130 is the product.

werthie

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is it possible to buy non-enthanol at the pump anywhere near Los Angeles, California?

alan

427heaven

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Well all good points given. First and foremost you want to give your engine what it needs.  95 percent of all cars on here will live great on gas station fuel, mash on the throttle when it is up to operating temps in the environment it will be running in, do you here a rattling or preignition sound in your engine? If not things are looking up for you most engines built today are around 9-10 to one compression ratio pump gas is just fine for this application. If you have a hot tune up in it and it just starts to make some unwanted noises you can take a little timing out of it retard the ignition. Toluene is the main component of all Fuel BOOSTERS so yes don't pay big bucks at the parts store go to your hardware store and get a gallon of it. DONT use av gas I know it smells good but it is designed for high altitude CONSTANT rpm of a airplane engine. Race engines or hot street engines need high octane levels but they need all the other STUFF that makes up race gas for hard loads and variable rpms this is why it costs 15-20 gallon depending on what your engine needs. similar to putting an oversized carb on your car all carbs are not created equal and you probably don't need an excessively large carb for most applications. Race gas has a shelf life of a few weeks so don't filler up and hope things will be good in 6 months it wont be especially where its hot on the left coast. We don't have moisture problems out west so put the least amount in that you will need that way each time you will have some bodacious fuel for your pride and joy to inhale. :)

CSX 4133

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is it possible to buy non-enthanol at the pump anywhere near Los Angeles, California?

alan


Check with any stations in close proximity for non ethanol fuel, good luck.

https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CA
~Steven

 6S1806 B.Prod.Shelby

kingchief

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Yes, good thread.  I have several stations that sell 90+ ethanol free gas nearby.  I shall start using it.

Should I continue to use sta-bill for long term protection with the ethanol free fuel???

Thanks,

Steve
6S406

CSX 4133

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Stabil is just plain cheap insurance, the Stabil 360 protects fuel tanks intentionally kept at less than full by preventing corrosion/rust issues.



https://www.goldeagle.com/product/sta-bil-360-performance/
~Steven

 6S1806 B.Prod.Shelby

Side-Oilers

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I have a VP Racing Fuel distributor near me, so I run straight 110 leaded in both my Kirkham and KR. 

Each car has an aluminum side-oiler (468-cid/10.5 compression/580hp KR; 482-cid/10.5 compression/600 hp Kirkham) and they love the extra oomph of the race gas.

Yes, it's $9/gallon, but is worth it to me. I don't put a ton of miles on my cars, and want to be able to drive them on hot days without detonation or cranky manners due to California's crappy pump gas.

Plus, who doesn't love the sweet smell of race fuel in the exhaust...and knowing you're spewing enough hydrocarbons to offset the earth-saving smugness of about 500 Priuses every time you drive it.
Current:
1968 GT500KR owner since 1982
Kirkham Cobra 427

Don Johnston

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This might be of help, especially if you are driving to car shows:

https://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html

 8)

Blackcar

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I have a VP Racing Fuel distributor near me, so I run straight 110 leaded in both my Kirkham and KR. 

Each car has an aluminum side-oiler (468-cid/10.5 compression/580hp KR; 482-cid/10.5 compression/600 hp Kirkham) and they love the extra oomph of the race gas.

Yes, it's $9/gallon, but is worth it to me. I don't put a ton of miles on my cars, and want to be able to drive them on hot days without detonation or cranky manners due to California's crappy pump gas.

Plus, who doesn't love the sweet smell of race fuel in the exhaust...and knowing you're spewing enough hydrocarbons to offset the earth-saving smugness of about 500 Priuses every time you drive it.
With lead added 100 octane comes out to about $4 a gallon with east coast pump prices. A 68 owners manual calls for premium fuel of 99 octane for a 390GT which had 10.5 compression.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 10:30:52 PM by Blackcar »

Side-Oilers

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Currently in SoCal, pump super unleaded is around $4.00/gallon where I live..and I've seen nearly $5.00 in parts of Los Angeles...Newport Beach, Beverly Hills.

Makes race fuel seem downright reasonable.
Current:
1968 GT500KR owner since 1982
Kirkham Cobra 427

2112

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I build all my engines in the 10:1-11:1 compression ratios and run them on 92 pump (38 degrees total advance)

I only add octane boost as a safety measure against lesser grade fuels. (5-10% Toluene)

Are you actually getting benefit of 100+ octane if you aren't running 13:1 compression?

Yes I know it smells good, but so does chloroform.

shelbydoug

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Of the four Ford V8 engines I have experience with, the 302, 347, 351c, 428 (Q), the small blocks are the least sensitive to detonation and actually run rather well on even 87 pump gas. I haven't run them over 10.8:1 and would only use 87 in some kind of a pinch.

92-93 pump gas is all they need. There have been a number of fuel "articles" that show data agreeing basically with what Randy said about fuels, i.e., that the 87 actually produces more heat then 92 does and as such shows a little more power.

Bottom line, a Ford small block doesn't need racing fuel or any additives.



My first Cleveland was built with TRW 11.8:1 pop-up pistons and quench heads. It ran fine on leaded SUNOCO 103 from the pumps until that was discontinues in about 1977 or 78. After that nothing that was unleaded would keep it from running without detonation so severe that it would actually shut itself off at about 4700rpm.

Moroso fuel additive to unleaded 93 would help but it would no longer run with power all the way to the red line without pinging. It had to be limited to about 32 degrees total advance but the key was to slow down the advance curve and go back to the thick heavy "stock original" distributor advance springs.

My current 351c is right at 10.0:1 and runs fine with pump premium and medium rate advance.


My 428 is apart getting rebuilt so I can't add anything to the discussion about it but I expect the distributor advance to be slowed down and to be limited to less then 36 degrees to run hard on 93.

SUNOCO premium here is still listed at 94 in the pumps. As far as I know, SUNOCO still refines it's own fuels to it's own formula and is not a batch commodity premium sold at different stations like other "premiums" are at 92-93.


I do know that running on SUNOCO 106 leaded racing gas that you can buy at race tracks will drop the idle rpm's down about 200 rpm at idle.


It is my understanding from reviewing data in the past that octane ratings have to do with resistance to detonation. The higher the number, the higher the resistance to that.

Higher octane fuel doesn't produce more power. In fact it produces less. The higher power is obtained by running higher static compression ratios without detonation.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 07:42:18 AM by shelbydoug »

deathsled

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Interesting and informative. Thank you shelbydoug
"Low she sits on five spoke wheels
Small block eight so live she feels
There she's parked beside the curb
Engine revving to disturb
She's the princess from his past
Red paint gold stripes damned she's fast"

shelbydoug

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Interesting and informative. Thank you shelbydoug

That's about what I know with the exception that there is no difference in running an aluminum head and an iron head about resistance to detonation.

Detonation is simply caused by squeezing the fuel to a point where it explodes without a spark. That is simply cylinder pressure caused by static compression ratio.


The racers adage about adding 1 compression point with an aluminum head was about equalizing horse power with the iron head.

So far there is no data that agrees with that. In fact most of the data I see on aluminum head engines is that they make more hp AND torque BUT there are so many combinations available you can no longer compare apples to apples.


I still have three gallons of Moroso fuel additive left in the garage. Anyone who wants to try it can trade me something of added value.

I personally don't like handling anything "hydrocarbon". You need "mad scientist" gloves with this stuff so that you don't absorb it through your skin. You do not want to know the long term prognosis for your health with it.

It DOES work and turns your non-leaded into 106 leaded but caution needs to prevail.


Oh...in my experience if you go over about 11.0:1 cr, a Ford starter won't be able to handle a hot engine re-start. I had to go to Tilton type race starters in every case. There is an Accell in my Pantera that you can paint blue to look stock. It works well.

A Tilton in my 68 with the 347. Lots of folks are using them in BB Mustangs as well. Once you see your starter wire and starter relay SMOKING and the engine won't quite turn over, you will get a flash back on this post for sure.  ;)

Something to consider also.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 10:34:48 AM by shelbydoug »

gt350hr

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  Fuels are "made" from "base stocks" with very specific types and quantities of additives "blended" in to produce the final product. Different fuel companies have their own "secret" blends which can actually be analyzed in a chemical lab. Another popular "additive'' is acetone. The internet has videos of how to add it to gas for great results.  All this stuff is great but "simply" pouring "X" amount into the tank is DANGEROUS. This isn't magic it's science. Off the shelf additives are on the conservative side to prevent damage to your engine. Using the chemicals by themselves "can" produce power as well as damage if the "balance" of the fuel is out of control. 100+ octane fuels should be restricted to cast iron headed engines over 11-1 and aluminum headed engines over 12-1. If the compression is less than that "I" suggest running 50/50 or 75/25 mix of pump and race gas.
       427heaven brings up a valid point about AV gas. It should not be used in ''pure" form and if mixed , never more than 50/50. This wasn't always the case as we"used to" be able to run it straight out of the pump. In the last 30 years it has gone to "low lead" and the formulation lacks several "must have" components. In any case AV gas is NOT the gas of choice for performance use but mixing will allow it to work. Carburetor jetting must be adjusted . AV gas and several race gasolines are tough on rubber hoses. "Most" will cause cracking of the rubber hose after as little as a year's use and steel braided hoses ( non teflon) are the most problematic. These fuels are very "drying" and evaporate quickly.
     Randy
Celebrating 44 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.