Help Identifying a Weber Intake for a Pantera...

[JD]

Can some of you help Identifying the source of this Weber intake for a Pantera?

The guy that bought my dad's '72 Pantera is trying to find out who made these. 

(He also needs some help with tuning the carbs (48 IDA's) but that's another topic.)

He sent me a photo I couldn't find of how the rear deck lid and top grille was modified.

Upload folder is full can't add images.

Intake has DETOMASO PANTERA cast in the top and "507 01 007 - 1" cast into it too.

"Cobra Jeff" you out there?

(Lost my license in this car, dad was in the passenger seat)

[2112]

Does the car still have the group 4 flares and awesome Turbine wheels?

[JD]

Flares are still there but he's put some other wheels that look very good.  The guy bought the car almost 40 years ago, looks the same.

(up-loaded photos the not as easy way)

[TransamEd]

Waiting for an answer from a guy who used to wrench on several Panteras.
Meanwhile another interesting Hall-Pantera set-up, I spotted at a recent local meeting from a Pantera restorer. Unfortunately I did not take his business card, but he certainly returns next time.

or bigger size

http://www.ponysite.de/hall_pantera_set-up.jpg

[2112]

Oh man, that is one the finest excecutions of Pantera I have seen, been a fan for 40+ years.

Looks like the new wheels, which are nice, are 17" diameter.

[BGlover67]

Looks really sharp in 'Fly Yellow'.

[shelbydoug]

+

Can some of you help Identifying the source of this Weber intake for a Pantera?

The guy that bought my dad's '72 Pantera is trying to find out who made these. 

(He also needs some help with tuning the carbs (48 IDA's) but that's another topic.)

He sent me a photo I couldn't find of how the rear deck lid and top grille was modified.

Upload folder is full can't add images.

Intake has DETOMASO PANTERA cast in the top and "507 01 007 - 1" cast into it too.

"Cobra Jeff" you out there?

(Lost my license in this car, dad was in the passenger seat)

It's the original Weber manifold made for the Group 4 Panteras.

The story is that is was originally designed and built by Holman-Moody for Detomaso at Fords orders.  It's unknown who did the castings but suspect the usual sources such as Buddy Barr, Edelbrock or Offenhuauser.

It's said that Ford gave the tooling to Detomaso as well as the rights to it. It definitely is very high quality tooling and as such, has Ford's fingerprints all over it.


Detomaso had them for sale in the mid to late '70s. It's unknown how many were actually made or sold. I have a letter from Detomaso with the price of the entire setup, price and ordering instructions.


A few have been surfacing lately for sale at exorbitant prices. As far as I know they were only made for the iron 4v Cleveland heads and the 9.2" block and the linkage used is unique to the Pantera and uses the center pivot.


I purchased my first Weber manifold from Hall Pantera about 1978. In a discussion about it with Gary Hall, he said his manifold was based upon the Detomaso version but was cast thicker in key areas like the carb mounting flanges.

My first Weber set up was installed on my '68 GT350 in which I had installed a Boss 351 in 1975.

That engine was sold off and the 302 re-installed as a 347 with a Holley 2x4 set up.


When I bought my Pantera in 1985, I built a 351 Cleveland for it with Ford A3 aluminum high port heads, Webers and 180 degree headers. Those are still in the car now.

Hall cast up a second version of their manifold. The second type fit the high port heads with the top of the intake port raised about 1/4".


Detomaso factory records being what they were, it isn't really know how many European street cars the Webers were installed in but they definitely were installed on the factory Group 4 racing cars where the rules permitted them. Something like 8 Group 4 cars were built.

It's unknown how many manifolds were cast, but Buddy Barr would do low numbers for Holman-Moody. Edelbrock and Offenhauser had minimum orders of 100. It's doubtful that there were hundreds of these made but unlikely that only a couple of dozen were made also.

I guess around 100.

Offenhauser did a lot of the final machining for Ford, even if they were cast elsewhere. They would stamp the manifold with OECO somewhere on the manifold.



They are strictly a Detomaso Euro thing. There the factory would build whatever a customer wanted. In the US, it was a Ford show and the Panteras all conformed to the US safety and emissions laws.

As far as I know, anyone who wanted them needed to go to Detomaso in Italy to get one. The 10" Campi's also. They were NA from any US Ford Dealers officially since they were never in the Ford Service Parts system.

I can't post a picture. The picture upload isn't working for me again. Sorry



As far as modifying the rear deck, here's an interesting bit, there are at least two types of Pantera rear decklids. Some US cars do not need to be cut for clearance. Some do.

The Group 4 cars have an aluminum skinned version but that's not the significant variation. That is the Group 4 cars have a different window opening that do not need to be notched for clearance.

It's thought that there are some US street cars stamped from the same dies and have the same change. You wouldn't be able to tell unless you tried to fit Webers on your street Pantera.

Mine will actually clear without the notch in the decklid. Lots of crazy things happen with these small manufacturers. Some never get noticed.

[JD]

ShelbyDoug, THANKS for your reply and insight.  This helps!!

(also, I e-mailed Jeff Burgy and he concurs with your statement)

Doug the owner may need some Weber tuning help, I'll try and put him in touch with you.

TransamEd, thanks too, will keep checking back to see what/if you find some more info too.

Thanks all

[Thomas Kuester]

Shelbydoug posted a response to a question I had regarding a DeTomaso Weber manifold sitting on my motor. JD was kind enough to ask the question on my behalf because I was not a Forum member which I just became. In the response, Shelbydoug stated 'I have a letter from Detomaso with the price of the entire setup, price and ordering instructions'. Is there any way I could get a copy of this letter? Although I've owned this Pantera for almost forty years there are a few items that I would like to know more about, and the Weber manifold is a missing link. Thank you, Tom

[shelbydoug]

I'll give anyone any kind of help I can with Webers. I'm not highly intelligent but I'm highly experienced. As Jimmy Hendricks asked, "are you experienced?"

The letter surfaces every so often here in my office. It's kind of like the tide and sometimes at low tide it just pops up? I found my baseball cleats from when I was 16. The letter...apiece of cake!

I just saw it recently this year. I put it in a safe place. So safe, I forgot where that is?

[TransamEd]

Thomas, regarding Euro Pantera parts it might be at least an interesting read aside from the already given answer by shelbydoug to dive in the Pantera Road and Track post (30 pages), some links to documents may help there..

If you need help with the french language or posting there, PM me. You may have to register ... to see the pics.

http://www.autodiva.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1183

[2112]

JD, Did your dad build the flares? Are they Steel"

I generally love the Group 4 cars (Minus any wings) but these flares are just so, so right.

[JD]

Yes, they are steel and were done a year or two after getting the car.

[2112]

Yes, they are steel and were done a year or two after getting the car.

I love the 70's.

[1968GT500CS]

Jd,

Do you have more pictures of Hall-Pantera Weber intake setups?

Thank you