Author Topic: Upper firewall paint changeover  (Read 546 times)

Bill

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Upper firewall paint changeover
« on: January 12, 2019, 07:28:23 AM »
Is there a known date for the upper firewall paint detail?

I know from personally tearing down 1584 (March 31st, 69 build date) that the firewall (and even the tops of the inner fender panels) showed signs of having grabber orange paint on them (thanks to my overuse of a high powered steam cleaner), and then were blacked out at the factory. Yet, I've seen other cars, both before and after, with a painted upper firewall.
Was this an error during restoration?
Were only certain colors subject to the upper firewall black out?
Or, was there a certain time period where the black out was a simple production line change over, or change out?

Just curious this cold and early AM.

Thanks in advance

Bill
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 07:30:07 AM by Bill »
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TOBKOB

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Re: Upper firewall paint changeover
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2019, 10:32:09 AM »
2060 Competition Red, April 7th build had no blackout on cowl or around windshield.

TOB
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 02:48:21 PM by TOBKOB »
1969 GT350 owned since 1970

Bob Gaines

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Re: Upper firewall paint changeover
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2019, 11:33:36 AM »
Is there a known date for the upper firewall paint detail?

I know from personally tearing down 1584 (March 31st, 69 build date) that the firewall (and even the tops of the inner fender panels) showed signs of having grabber orange paint on them (thanks to my overuse of a high powered steam cleaner), and then were blacked out at the factory. Yet, I've seen other cars, both before and after, with a painted upper firewall.
Was this an error during restoration?
Were only certain colors subject to the upper firewall black out?
Or, was there a certain time period where the black out was a simple production line change over, or change out?

Just curious this cold and early AM.

Thanks in advance

Bill
The blackout changeover was a time period change on the Ford Dearborn line and did not having to do with a specific color. I have never heard of a exact specific changeover date. It was however in the general time frame of your car. I am a little surprised for instance that the reported no black out on 2960 for instance because typically it would have the blackout given the completion time period. There may have been other extenuating  circumstances in that case.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Bill

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Re: Upper firewall paint changeover
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2019, 12:55:48 PM »
The blackout changeover was a time period change on the Ford Dearborn line and did not having to do with a specific color. I have never heard of a exact specific changeover date. It was however in the general time frame of your car. I am a little surprised for instance that the reported no black out on 2960 for instance because typically it would have the blackout given the completion time period. There may have been other extenuating  circumstances in that case.

How about the body color found all the way up to the corner of the radiator support on the upper inner fender panels? With Grabber Orange being so "opaque", do we think they would have had to lay it down further from the body/firewall?

« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 12:58:55 PM by Bill »
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TOBKOB

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Re: Upper firewall paint changeover
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2019, 02:50:07 PM »
Quote
I am a little surprised for instance that the reported no black out on 2960 for instance because typically it would have the blackout given the completion time period.

Sorry Bob it is 2060...my mistake...corrected.. ::)

TOB
1969 GT350 owned since 1970

Bill

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Re: Upper firewall paint changeover
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2019, 08:32:25 PM »
Color on the front face of the radiator support is something unrelated I believe - typically passenger side upper near where the buck tag would end up

Agreed, as the front fenders and hood had paint work done in the early 70's. Yet the body color under the original black out is what I was more interested in, as it reaches further forward on this car than any other car I've torn down in the past. Even my Sunlit Gold 68 Mustang (GT) convertible did not have color further forward than the edge of the front inner fender panel/shock tower, and that car was 100% original when I purchased it in 1981.

Bill
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J_Speegle

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Re: Upper firewall paint changeover
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2019, 09:26:15 PM »
Very common mistake in many restorations. Some of this may be due to builders discovering body color in these areas even though at the factory they may (depending on production date at Dearborn) would have been blacked out with engine compartment black.

Have an approximate date I found many years ago and haven't made other findings that would alter it I believe. Checked my spread sheets and it suggests that the change over took place in April 69 at Dearborn. Do have one orphan example with a build date of March 31 but allot of body color examples after that particular car. Might have taken a few days to get all the shifts on the same page 

How about the body color found all the way up to the corner of the radiator support on the upper inner fender panels? ..................

Color on the front face of the radiator support is something unrelated I believe - typically passenger side upper near where the buck tag would end up
Jeff Speegle- Mustang & Shelby detail collector, ConcoursMustang.com babysitter :) and Judge

J_Speegle

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Re: Upper firewall paint changeover
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2019, 09:28:20 PM »

Agreed, as the front fenders and hood had paint work done in the early 70's. Yet the body color under the original black out is what I was more interested in, as it reaches further forward on this car than any other car I've torn down in the past. Even my Sunlit Gold 68 Mustang (GT) convertible did not have color further forward than the edge of the front inner fender panel/shock tower, and that car was 100% original when I purchased it in 1981.

Have run across odd ball cars every once in a while from each plant where the painter got carried away and applied body color all the way up to the radiator support. Possible the new kid. Sure one of the regulars got them into line and to stop wasting time, product and effort.
Jeff Speegle- Mustang & Shelby detail collector, ConcoursMustang.com babysitter :) and Judge

Bill

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Re: Upper firewall paint changeover
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2019, 07:29:02 AM »

Agreed, as the front fenders and hood had paint work done in the early 70's. Yet the body color under the original black out is what I was more interested in, as it reaches further forward on this car than any other car I've torn down in the past. Even my Sunlit Gold 68 Mustang (GT) convertible did not have color further forward than the edge of the front inner fender panel/shock tower, and that car was 100% original when I purchased it in 1981.

Have run across odd ball cars every once in a while from each plant where the painter got carried away and applied body color all the way up to the radiator support. Possible the new kid. Sure one of the regulars got them into line and to stop wasting time, product and effort.

Thanks Jeff  8)
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cj750

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Re: Upper firewall paint changeover
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2019, 12:07:44 AM »
This was a topic of considerable debate among '69 Cougar Eliminator owners a while back, eventually leading to an online poll. Since all Eliminators were built on the same Dearborn line as Mustangs, the data should be relevant. What we found is that the earliest reported build date for an Eliminator with a black upper cowl was 4/17/69. From 4/25/69 on, they were all black. In between was a mix, with black paint becoming more prevalent on the later dates. 
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carm

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Re: Upper firewall paint changeover
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2019, 07:23:35 AM »
2139 with April 21,69 build date has no upper firewall blackout. Also lots of Body Color found on driver side shock tower.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 05:58:05 PM by carm »

Special Ed

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Re: Upper firewall paint changeover
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2019, 09:08:09 AM »
I have always thought it was a 69 boss 302 thing since they all had the blackout hood & cowl panel treatment so the area under the cowl panel where the open vents are wouldnt show body color on top of the cowl when looking thru the cowl panel & where the hood & cowl panel meet that gap wouldnt show body color thru where the firewall & top of cowl are spotwelded together especially on light colored cars like white. The 69 boss 302s came out in early april & thats when the lh ribbed apron starts showing up replacing the smooth flat type lh apron & the ribbed type apron would help support the new first time used 69 b2 rev-limiter since it mounts where the added ribs are for extra strenght. I have seen many early 69 cars restored with later 69 & 70 ribbed service replacement lh panel & the rh dozb battery apron since those are the 2 front aprons ford sold as service replacements so as to 1 size fits all for both years but not concours correct for 69 cars built before april 69 anyway.

5s386

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Re: Upper firewall paint changeover
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2019, 12:50:21 PM »
983 has the cowl blackout, and underneath the black is body color (red).

J_Speegle

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Re: Upper firewall paint changeover
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2019, 10:47:58 PM »
I have always thought it was a 69 boss 302 thing since they all had the blackout hood & cowl panel ntreatment so the area under the cowl panel where the open vents are wouldnt show body color on top of the cowl when looking thru the cowl panel & where the hood & cowl panel meet that gap wouldnt show body color thru where the firewall & top of cowl are spotwelded together especially on light colored cars like white.


If so then it would have been a Mach I thing :)

Plenty of earlier 69 Shelbys can be found with black  rattle can clean ups and the owners added the black over the body color since it was much easier and looked to many cleaner
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Special Ed

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Re: Upper firewall paint changeover
« Reply #14 on: Today at 01:26:04 AM »
Yes jeff i know  all mach 1s had hood blackout but starting in early april mach 1s AND boss 302s had blackout hood treatment so thats why i think that was the start of the blackout cowl paint. I never seen any ford docs on this but by looking at unrestored cars built in early april 69 era dearborn cars thats what i have found in my research but we need to find a closer date changeover ( from unmolested cars only) at the dearborn plant anyway since b9s b2s shelbys cougars & many mach 1s were built there. We just had a 70 b9 in shop that the PO had painted the cowl area body color & its not an easy fix to go back black. Has anybody seen an early built unmolested 69 b2 with original body color cowl paint?
« Last Edit: Today at 01:38:52 AM by Special Ed »