Author Topic: Cam Suggestions  (Read 3396 times)

gt350hr

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Re: Cam Suggestions
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2019, 11:36:02 AM »
  Ford Racing E303 or Crane 2020. Great for a 331 auto. AFR 205s are TOO big in this case , I have to agree with Doug. But since you already have them , a short duration , fast action,  hydraulic roller  will get back the lower end performance. Advance it 4 degrees too ( or at least check to see that it is 4*s advanced when installed). No real need for a custom cam in a street application.
   Randy
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

mygt350

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Re: Cam Suggestions
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2019, 01:54:12 PM »
I went with the AFR 185 heads and the Comp Cams XE274HR. Checked with Comp Cams who said the XE274HR has 4 degrees advance built in so no need to do anything at crank sprocket. All forged rotating assembly with H-beam rods. Originally was a 347 but I decided to go with the 331  instead. Pistons have valve reliefs and should give me close to 10.4:1 compression.
Martin
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Re: Cam Suggestions
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2019, 02:27:19 PM »
+ 1

You match the springs to the cam. Not the opposite.

I'd expect that on a street driven car with an C4 automatic the cam selection is going to be milder just for the necessity of living with an automatic.

That probably means selecting one that will idle at around 800 rpm and give 15 inches of vacuum.
Right there, that is somewhat of a mismatch with those heads.

It would be a very good idea to run that by a cam grinder and consider a custom cut hydraulic roller. I don't see anything off the shelf that matches the outline.

There are pluses and minuses to those heads. A plus is that you don't need a lot of lift and if you wind up with something around .550 you are about as good as you will get.


Have you thought about using the c-4 overdrive transmission from the mid 70's like in the Granada? That would give you a 4 speed automatic and can help you out with gearing and thus cam selection?
These cars are meant to be driven, so enjoy the hell out of all of it. Not just the look of it when its all clean. Carroll Shelby

A person without a sense of humor is like a wagon without springs. It's jolted by every pebble on the road.

Florida S.A.A.C Love All-Serve All, Take Time To Be Kind

1967 eight barrel

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Re: Cam Suggestions
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2019, 05:11:09 PM »
You may not want 4 degrees advanced. You only run the advance when the cam is retarded 4 degrees, which many manufacturers used to incorporate in their design. You should have it degreed if you don't have the tools and knowledge to do it yourself.
My custom grind was ground with no retard. Skipping these kind of things is why people wind up tearing down engines a half dozen times.
I also bought the billet roller timing chain keyed for different timing.
Don't do it half-assed. You're not going to be happy in the end.

gt350hr

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Re: Cam Suggestions
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2019, 10:45:25 AM »
  Running a cam in the advanced position is common when the cylinder head is bigger than what is needed or the cam is a little too long on duration. Early intake valve opening lowers the torque curve a bit and improves bottom end performance. It is a rare occasion when it doesn't help. "Ideal" cam timing ( one that is "most powerful" without advance or retard) takes allot of testing to achieve. In my 50+ years of racing and performance engine building , "I" have only seen it a couple of times. If a cam runs better retarded , it is too short on duration and later opening at faster piston velocity helps fill the cylinder better with the lesser timing.

       Randy
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

1967 eight barrel

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Re: Cam Suggestions
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2019, 06:10:39 PM »
Randy, you and I both know many cams are ground with a 4 degree retard. This is why I never trust a cam out of the box. Someone like you taught me how to degree and to check specs. I used an excellent grinder who does them in-house. However, Chinese manufactured junk doesn't help the issue.
                                                                                     -Keith

shelbydoug

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Re: Cam Suggestions
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2019, 07:11:44 PM »
Most of the cam grinders I've seen state the timing events of their cams. I don't see any with retarded timing built into the cam. Compcams for instance, lists every Ford cam with a built in 4 degree advance.

Ford installed some production cams in the early '70s with retarding built into some of the cams. It depends on the application. One that I can think of is the '72 351c CJ.

Some cam manufacturers are making "vintage muscle cams" and IF someone made a '72 351c CJ cam, I would want to see the specs on the cam first.

I would think that a cam purchaser is an educated consumer and as such considers the timing events on the camshaft he is buying? You just don't walk into a gun shop and say "give me a gun" do you?
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Re: Cam Suggestions
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2019, 08:00:35 PM »
Sadly, some do. They know nothing about the events listed in the cam sheet. They look at lift and duration.  Little else. Despite this, you should ALWAYS check the cam against the sheet.
                                                              -Keith

pbf777

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Re: Cam Suggestions
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2019, 08:06:46 PM »

 You just don't walk into a gun shop and say "give me a gun" do you?

     I think today this would fall under poor etiquette, and a less than recommended practice; and if you did, I would assume one is pointed at you!     :o

     Scott.

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Re: Cam Suggestions
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2019, 08:09:06 PM »
So the word "gun" is offensive now? Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.  If gun bothers you I'd suggest you ask your significant other to return your testicles from said place of safe keeping.
                                                                             -Keith

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Re: Cam Suggestions
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2019, 08:14:01 PM »
So the word "gun" is offensive now? Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.  If gun bothers you I'd suggest you ask your significant other to return your testicles from said place of safe keeping.
                                                                             -Keith


lmao that's funny, carry on with the topic at hand
These cars are meant to be driven, so enjoy the hell out of all of it. Not just the look of it when its all clean. Carroll Shelby

A person without a sense of humor is like a wagon without springs. It's jolted by every pebble on the road.

Florida S.A.A.C Love All-Serve All, Take Time To Be Kind

mygt350

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Re: Cam Suggestions
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2019, 08:22:05 PM »
Keith
Almost fell out of my chair. Hysterically funny. I do appreciate all the information about cam selection. Please, everyone, check the Politics at the door. Its about the cars. But, when I do walk into a gun store, I tell the clerk I need a gun and I add it to the collection. Sorry, not politically correct.
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Re: Cam Suggestions
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2019, 08:26:06 PM »
Please, everyone, check the Politics at the door. Its about the cars. But, when I do walk into a gun store, I tell the clerk I need a gun and I add it to the collection. Sorry, not politically correct.

+ 1
These cars are meant to be driven, so enjoy the hell out of all of it. Not just the look of it when its all clean. Carroll Shelby

A person without a sense of humor is like a wagon without springs. It's jolted by every pebble on the road.

Florida S.A.A.C Love All-Serve All, Take Time To Be Kind

1967 eight barrel

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Re: Cam Suggestions
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2019, 08:49:52 PM »
Well, not to get too off thread. I served almost eight years as an infantry officer, two actions Grenada and Panama and eight years active as a CHP, retired with tweleve and a half years post 18 surgeries that was necessitated by a drunk illegal with two prior drunk driving convictions.
I know legal gun ownership with 400,000,000 firearms in hands like mine aren't the problem. I own weapons from about 1700-current. I got put through the ringer for a Federal license to own an original FBI Thompson Sub Machine Gun. They harm no one. I love to target shoot, but I don't even hunt.  I am a historian.
It's pathetic when people are so weak-minded that they blame a tool for the criminal actions of humans. Humans will always find a tool to do their bidding if that is their intent. Classifying a murder as hate crime is ridiculous. People don't kill you because they like you and it doesn't change the crime. It's still murder.
This country makes me sick and it spits right in my face for paying my debt of gratitude for having opportunities like no other nation has.
I saw socialism first hand, and these liberal idiots and longing for it. I did what I did for nothing.

                                                                     -Keith

shelbydoug

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Re: Cam Suggestions
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2019, 07:26:15 AM »
Well, not to get too off thread. I served almost eight years as an infantry officer, two actions Grenada and Panama and eight years active as a CHP, retired with tweleve and a half years post 18 surgeries that was necessitated by a drunk illegal with two prior drunk driving convictions.
I know legal gun ownership with 400,000,000 firearms in hands like mine aren't the problem. I own weapons from about 1700-current. I got put through the ringer for a Federal license to own an original FBI Thompson Sub Machine Gun. They harm no one. I love to target shoot, but I don't even hunt.  I am a historian.
It's pathetic when people are so weak-minded that they blame a tool for the criminal actions of humans. Humans will always find a tool to do their bidding if that is their intent. Classifying a murder as hate crime is ridiculous. People don't kill you because they like you and it doesn't change the crime. It's still murder.
This country makes me sick and it spits right in my face for paying my debt of gratitude for having opportunities like no other nation has.
I saw socialism first hand, and these liberal idiots and longing for it. I did what I did for nothing.

                                                                     -Keith

Well I agree with you that guns are not the problem. Just like a high performance car, responsible use of them is expected.

I understand how being catagorized is offensive. I get catgorized all the time, then rated within that catagory. I don't care for that etither.

My point was, I was reaching out to you since I know you are an enthusiast of both firearms and high performance cars, that even though there is no requirement for knowledge of the use of the product required, it would be an awfully good idea to have more than just a little.

Just like firearms, there are basic camshafts and then there are highly specialized ones and probably everything in between.

Just like firearms, there are circles with camshafts where one can learn much from others highly experienced with them. From that comes understanding and from that comes respect.

The technology involved in both comes to be appreciated and it helps one understand both the tools limitations and the personal human limitations.

Ignorance creates the fear. Knowledge creates the respect.

I got over my ignorance of firearms at around 2 and am still working at getting over my ignorance of camshafts although I haven't needed an M15 or Laws rockets in over 40 years, I still need camshafts on occasion? I don't need my K-bar for camping anymore either. All former tools now considered obsolete (by me) and you know what? I don't miss them either?  ;)

Just my personal perspective and my way of reaching out.
68 GT350 Lives Matter!