Author Topic: NOS original script dual points, questions !  (Read 7364 times)

CharlesTurner

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Re: NOS original script dual points, questions !
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2019, 10:33:29 AM »
I was told by a long term Senior Judge, to do just that, take pictures of items that are " original " to the build dates and times of the cars that you will not be able to see when asembled.
Date codes, part numbers, correct scripts and part names>> autolite, rotunda, FoMoCo, motorcraft etc >> are just those points.

In the judging organizations I've been involved in, if we can't see it, we don't judge it.

Pictures would not be useful as there's no way to validate those pictures are of the same car being judged.
Charles Turner
MCA/SAAC Judge

Harris Speedster

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Re: NOS original script dual points, questions !
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2019, 11:06:41 AM »
CharlesTurner,
I think Bob touched upon this.
Organizations and Judges all have their own criteria.
I have always found it Crazy that common items shared with Mustang would be different then Saac points judging for the same, but that is the point in basics.

Amelia, Pebble, Greenwich and more, everything counts.
Pedigree, accuracy and Provenance reign supreme
So >>>> I respectfully agree to disagree.
John
Is this the first futuristic exotic in the world?
Size of an ac cobra, but built in 1935 !
https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/features-stories-and-photos/harris-fwd-speedster-the-story/?PHPSESSID=v4pqtv6hep4ff4rvalrc9qsnj7

acman63

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Re: NOS original script dual points, questions !
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2019, 11:06:52 AM »
Cmon John  ;  out of sight out of mind. its only your satisfaction that you have original points.  Theres no way any concours event would spend time opening up a dist to check the guts.  Ive watched them judge at PB  AI and the quail concours and they dont do stuff like that.   
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 11:09:37 AM by acman63 »
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CharlesTurner

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Re: NOS original script dual points, questions !
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2019, 11:20:45 AM »
Agree that everything counts and while the judges will give a pass on items we can't see in concours/thoroughbred, I personally would still install FoMoCo points and things that couldn't be seen.  For some, it's not about the points, it's about making the car the best it can be.
Charles Turner
MCA/SAAC Judge

Bossbill

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Re: NOS original script dual points, questions !
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2019, 01:00:19 PM »

In the judging organizations I've been involved in, if we can't see it, we don't judge it.

Pictures would not be useful as there's no way to validate those pictures are of the same car being judged.

When I was taking down judge's comments as a scribe at the last SAAC convention I was lead to believe that owners should have photos to document things the judges can't see.

I've been scrupulous about documenting things like the paint colors on my original leaf springs so that I can replace those markings to "as originally made."

I understand the issue with bogus documentation, but how can I prove what I've done without including my vin tag in every photo -- which would also not prove it's my car that I'm photographing?
Bill

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polyglas

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Re: NOS original script dual points, questions !
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2019, 02:04:51 PM »
Bill, It's recommended to document original markings & colors on your car especially if they are not "typical". If judges question originality you have pictures. During judges introduction to car owner the lead judge will ask the owner if there is anything not typical about the car that should be discussed before judging begins. Undercarriage primer color is a good example.
 If a judge cannot see something (lack of Lubriplate on original FoMoCo brake shoes ) the owner is not required to have pictures of the parts not visible during judging. Many owners/restorers do take pictures of everything, however not required in SAAC or MCA judging for parts not visible during judging.

J_Speegle

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Re: NOS original script dual points, questions !
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2019, 02:27:36 PM »
And as always try (yes in some venues it can be difficult to impossible given the way things are done) and understand the requirements.

Have seen where 6 items (kept secret until needed) were used to break ties or determine Best of the Best or Best of Show. Recall points being one of them one year. DO your best, be prepared, make your choices and live with them.
Jeff Speegle- Mustang & Shelby detail collector, ConcoursMustang.com mentor :) and Judge

Harris Speedster

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Re: NOS original script dual points, questions !
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2019, 02:54:24 PM »
Big Jim,
To my best knowledge, paperwork which is turned in with applications, covers everything from nuts, bolts, cloth wire,  to clips.

If a person has went all out, the pictures taken of the points, count as being more original than one with points from autozone.

If somebody would protest, guess a person would just loosen the clamps if the picture is not sufficient evidence..

Not arguing big Jim,
For the most part, there is an adage, yea with the most money to buy 100% correct original goodies>>>  wins hands down.
That is SAAC's guidelines for the best of the best, isn't it ?

Why would a person even consider paying $2000. for a carb, which has numbers you can not see ???????

It is all relevant, and with Senior Judges  dealing with 18 countries last year at Pebble, some being world leaders, yep,  pissing rights reign supreme and who has the biggest wallet, they all want the same thing, top Honors.

They have one chance at Pebble, you wait 5 years to submit again. Exception, same owner can strip it and start all over again, or if t found a new owner  they can submit the car for years, and sometimes never get an Invitation.

Bossbill, you are 100% right, keep the docs, and continue to keep documentation.
I have done the same with the Speedster and many other cars I have had.
J Speegle, spot on , thanks

Seems the portfolio adds value when its sold too ?

BIG Jim you made me smile as always, they are out of Coopers collection, and yeah it is fun to bring forth such oddities, >>> but at the same time, with two car's being perfect and equal, who would win with documentation displayed, in all out competition ?

Geez, now I am afraid to bring out the Ford Script condenser >> smile guys.

Anybody going to the Cincinnati Concours d'Elegance this weekend? Cooper will be there with the Cobra Coupe of Miata's, one of only two original factory backed cars ever built. Yes, turned in obscure facts when submitting for an  Invitation.
It sat center stage last year up by an Invitational by Chicago, shred the stage with a factory werks 906 Porsche , and two other factory manufacturers werks cars.

Shooting for Special Invitation next year at Amelia for all out factory team werks car competition..

Respectfully submitted,,
John
Is this the first futuristic exotic in the world?
Size of an ac cobra, but built in 1935 !
https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/features-stories-and-photos/harris-fwd-speedster-the-story/?PHPSESSID=v4pqtv6hep4ff4rvalrc9qsnj7

Harris Speedster

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Re: NOS original script dual points, questions !
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2019, 02:57:23 PM »
Agree that everything counts and while the judges will give a pass on items we can't see in concours/thoroughbred, I personally would still install FoMoCo points and things that couldn't be seen.  For some, it's not about the points, it's about making the car the best it can be.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That is being in the spirit of true competition and making it the best it can be !!!
Thank you Charles, I agree with your philosophy.
Best regards,
John
Is this the first futuristic exotic in the world?
Size of an ac cobra, but built in 1935 !
https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/features-stories-and-photos/harris-fwd-speedster-the-story/?PHPSESSID=v4pqtv6hep4ff4rvalrc9qsnj7

gt350hr

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Re: NOS original script dual points, questions !
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2019, 12:52:22 PM »
   Finding original tune up parts that "should have been used up " long ago is always pleasant.
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

Bossbill

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Re: NOS original script dual points, questions !
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2019, 01:16:15 PM »
Are these the "gray paper" version and would be correct for my Mar 2 car?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 01:18:22 PM by Bossbill »
Bill

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gt350hr

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Re: NOS original script dual points, questions !
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2019, 01:59:07 PM »
 "In my personal experience" Yes.
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

Bossbill

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Re: NOS original script dual points, questions !
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2019, 02:27:01 PM »
That's good, since I just bought a pair with the Autolite stamping!

Out of sight, not out of mind.
Bill

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70 B302   6/6/70  0T02G160xxx

Harris Speedster

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Re: NOS original script dual points, questions !
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2019, 07:06:39 PM »
Are these the "gray paper" version and would be correct for my Mar 2 car?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bill,
Are they Ford script ?
Are they for an early 67 or ?
Thanks
John
Is this the first futuristic exotic in the world?
Size of an ac cobra, but built in 1935 !
https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/features-stories-and-photos/harris-fwd-speedster-the-story/?PHPSESSID=v4pqtv6hep4ff4rvalrc9qsnj7

Bossbill

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Re: NOS original script dual points, questions !
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2019, 07:42:55 PM »
   John ,
     If the distributor housing is an Autolite , it certainly would have Autolite points . "I" feel that even if the distributor housing says FoMoCo  , a '67 GT350 would have had Autolite points with the gray paper insulator because the Autolite Division ( that made the distributors) would have the fastest turn over of points compared to a "dealers" shelf. Bob or Jeff would certainly know what is "acceptable" without a point deduction.
     Randy

Randy had a really good answer, so I'll quote him.
The gray versions I bought say AUTOLITE on the pivot end.

There is no point deduction for any breaker points since concours judges don't look inside of assemblies. They don't verify you have a tomahawk inside your engine or if your toploader has been converted to Jerico internals.

On my car any parts that should be natural are restored that way. So far I have not painted anything that left the assembly line as bare with a faux paint.
This is a tough road as you can't hide repairs behind paint, so you end up having to restore to a much higher level.

That's why the car deserves things like AUTOLITE points.
Bill

67 GT350 Actual Build 3/2/67  01375
70 B302   6/6/70  0T02G160xxx