Author Topic: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs  (Read 4790 times)

shelbydoug

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2019, 09:09:04 AM »
At this point it could be a lot of things including a bad ring or cylder wall and for that matter a broken intake manifold with a leaking runner.

We could start a pool and bet on what we think it is and give a prize to the winner.

It's just at a point where the only way to find it is to disassemble.

There are lots of strange things happening. For me, intake gaskets are not matching up well. Early intake manifolds are not fitting up well to later blocks and heads.

I've got a thermostat housing leaking fluid and the only thing left is that the housing itself is porous and leaking right through the casting.

Some items like that never had any consideration of still being in use 50 years later.

Although a ring issue is a possibility, the quantity of oil being consumed doesn't line up with that. We're dealing with probability now, not possibility because literally anything is possible.

That no longer matters. The top or the engine has to come apart with AT LEAST the intake coming off.

I'd bet on the intake manifold misalignment to the ports on the heads, but that's just the latest guess. I just did my own T/A intake install and it's very fair to say that the intake gaskets were an issue.

Third time install was a charm...except for that thermostat housing. That's not done yet.  ;) Two sets of head gaskets. Issues that didn't exist 30 years ago.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 09:12:11 AM by shelbydoug »

SFM6S087

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2019, 05:16:16 AM »
At least you can see the smoking. I was losing a quart of oil for every 100 miles driven. Never a wisp of smoke and only an occasional drop on the ground under the engine. The baffles in the valve covers had been gutted for clearance over roller rockers. The oil was getting sucked up the PCV valve to the intake and then the cylinders to be burned and exhausted. So why no smoke? I wondered the same thing until I saw an article by Curt Vogt in the last printed Shelby Annual. He says that synthetic oil will not smoke when burned in the engine like petroleum based oil. And Iíve been using synthetic. But I can tell you it will foul your spark plugs. Ha, ha!

Steve

cob4ra

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2019, 10:37:56 PM »
bills 852 at the ford store was scoped and tested for intake manifold leaks! The cylinders were oily wet and one picture will show you some disconcerting bore scraping!
1966 Shelby GT350 Hertz 1680 ( previously 6s1842;6s1818)                                                  2000 Saleen S281 Speedster.                              Previously two sunbeam tigers and have owned 24 mustangs ; 4 Mercury Cyclones and one 1960 Fiat 600!

cob4ra

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2019, 10:41:50 PM »
They ran a device that would have pulled smoke? If the Intake manifold gaskets were leaking and it was sealed tight so they detected no leaks to the intake manifold gaskets
1966 Shelby GT350 Hertz 1680 ( previously 6s1842;6s1818)                                                  2000 Saleen S281 Speedster.                              Previously two sunbeam tigers and have owned 24 mustangs ; 4 Mercury Cyclones and one 1960 Fiat 600!

shelbydoug

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2019, 07:43:13 AM »
The scoring marks are upsetting but they aren't radical enough to be causing this situation. The source of the oil is from the top of the engine.

Still the most likely source of that QUANTITY of oil is through the intake manifold.

Valve guides can leak due to the vacuum put on them by the downward movement of the pistons but I've never seen "rebuilt heads" with the leak that much oil consistently from cylinder to cylinder.

Many freshly rebuilt heads don't even need valve stem seals. One exception would be that if the rebuilder knurled the guides to tighten up clearances rather then replace the guides themselves. But the guides need to be completely replaced not just sleeved and reamed.

That procedure is going to leak a lot of oil too. You need an entire new guide installed in the head.


Incidentally, if you should happen to remove the heads for any reason, before reinstalling the heads, make sure you take a good shop vac and clear out the space between the pistons and the block walls.

Scoring is going to be caused by something stuck in there between the piston and the bore. It could be carbon particles, small pieces of the coating from the head gaskets or something in the anti-freeze that is going to get in there when you break the seal of the head and the gasket.

It's difficult if not impossible for something to get between the ring and the block bore because of the ring tension.

gt350hr

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2019, 10:57:35 AM »
bills 852 at the ford store was scoped and tested for intake manifold leaks! The cylinders were oily wet and one picture will show you some disconcerting bore scraping!

   For a newly rebuilt , low mile engine the pictures show UNACCEPTABLE bore conditions. Those vertical scratches are "In My Professional ( yes I do this everyday) Opinion" excessive and will prevent proper ring seal. This situation will not fix itself over any amount of time. It is imperative to ( on tear down) determine the ACTUAL cause of those scratches and eliminate the cause before repair/ reassembly. If this was a 50-60,000 mile engine I would expect what is shown. With low miles it is a serious issue.
    Randy
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

cob4ra

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2019, 02:15:03 PM »
Iíve suspected that the Dyno guys may have caused this condition if they did not run a correct break in procedure ? But the scoring of the bore? Dirt or grindings in bore not properly cleaned properly?
1966 Shelby GT350 Hertz 1680 ( previously 6s1842;6s1818)                                                  2000 Saleen S281 Speedster.                              Previously two sunbeam tigers and have owned 24 mustangs ; 4 Mercury Cyclones and one 1960 Fiat 600!

Side-Oilers

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2019, 02:22:02 PM »
Was the engine builder a shop that you or a car buddy has used before? 
Current:
1968 GT500KR owner since 1982 (now running Shelby aluminum 427 S-O)
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gt350hr

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2019, 03:16:55 PM »
Iíve suspected that the Dyno guys may have caused this condition if they did not run a correct break in procedure ? But the scoring of the bore? Dirt or grindings in bore not properly cleaned properly?

      Without seeing the piston out of the bore it is difficult to see the cause. It could be ring material off of the second ring becoming embedded into the piston skirts , rings butting . or some other possibilities. I'll stay tuned for more pictures.
    Randy
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

cob4ra

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2019, 03:21:07 PM »
You will all be in the Loop on what we find when it comes apart ! and side oilers I do not know who this builder is ?? he talked the talk and it was a California builder not sure of the name of the company but my friend Bill is the one who researched and found them! Sooo! As the saying goes! On calm seas a sailor never learns  how to be a great Sailor !
1966 Shelby GT350 Hertz 1680 ( previously 6s1842;6s1818)                                                  2000 Saleen S281 Speedster.                              Previously two sunbeam tigers and have owned 24 mustangs ; 4 Mercury Cyclones and one 1960 Fiat 600!

Bob Gaines

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2019, 05:36:14 PM »
You will all be in the Loop on what we find when it comes apart ! and side oilers I do not know who this builder is ?? he talked the talk and it was a California builder not sure of the name of the company but my friend Bill is the one who researched and found them! Sooo! As the saying goes! On calm seas a sailor never learns  how to be a great Sailor !
I can only assume given the nothing has been said that the CA engine builder is not standing behind the problem ?
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

gt350hr

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2019, 06:12:06 PM »
  Lots of "discovery" is needed before constructing the "hanging tower".
      Randy
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

427heaven

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2019, 07:10:31 PM »
You will all be in the Loop on what we find when it comes apart ! and side oilers I do not know who this builder is ?? he talked the talk and it was a California builder not sure of the name of the company but my friend Bill is the one who researched and found them! Sooo! As the saying goes! On calm seas a sailor never learns  how to be a great Sailor !
OR NO ONE CAN PUT BETTER COMBINATIONS OF FOUL WORDS AND PHRASES TOGETHER THEN A DRUNKEN SAILOR. ;)

cob4ra

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2019, 10:32:15 PM »
Bill researched this engine builder by a mustang Magazines article and it gave him the assurance that they were the right guys to rebuild his unopened original engine, I got to go over by phone some wants on the rebuild (based on my engines experience from when Mine was done)with the senior guy there . JGM ?  Iíve never heard of them but I hope that they will take care of Bill after he gets it torn down and we all analyze it !

1966 Shelby GT350 Hertz 1680 ( previously 6s1842;6s1818)                                                  2000 Saleen S281 Speedster.                              Previously two sunbeam tigers and have owned 24 mustangs ; 4 Mercury Cyclones and one 1960 Fiat 600!

427heaven

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Re: New engine rebuild smoking and oil fouling plugs
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2019, 11:57:59 PM »
All the racers on the left coast of heard of grubbs shop. They are first class, hope it gets figured out!