Author Topic: better option than detroit locker?  (Read 5253 times)

98SVT - was 06GT

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #60 on: January 15, 2021, 11:21:02 AM »
When you get serious you'll need a spool. My 1997 Mustang TA/GT1 track day toy. Being finished with a 67 TA tribute look.
Previous owner 6S843 - GT350H & 68 GT500 Convert #135.
Mine: GT1 Mustang Track Toy, 1998 SVT Cobra, Wife's: 2004 Tbird
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pbf777

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #61 on: January 15, 2021, 12:30:27 PM »
When you get serious you'll need a spool.


     Before the Detroit Locker, if one was truly "serious" then a popular option was the "Lincoln-Locker"; then the commercially available spool appeared in the market place.

     These "locked" & "locking" type units (this versus others better described as "slipping" units) benefit from a more aggressive driving style where the tire absorbs a greater responsibility proving slip in concert with the differential for more acceptable results; and this is anticipated in racing applications    :)

     Scott.


     

mygt350

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #62 on: January 15, 2021, 01:08:38 PM »
My personal opinion for what its worth, is that the only real option for a real 65 GT350 is a real 28-spline locker.
By the way, Randy, you ever decide to let the locker you have squirreled away go the a new home?

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gt350hr

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2021, 02:19:58 PM »
  No not yet.
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

98SVT - was 06GT

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2021, 03:14:19 PM »
     These "locked" & "locking" type units (this versus others better described as "slipping" units) benefit from a more aggressive driving style where the tire absorbs a greater responsibility proving slip in concert with the differential for more acceptable results; and this is anticipated in racing applications    :)
Sometimes the tires don't slip enough. When the car was build he put in the lighter drilled axles. Second outing at Laguna Seca and it snapped one making the left hander into the corkscrew. Now it's got the solid NASCAR axles in it.
Previous owner 6S843 - GT350H & 68 GT500 Convert #135.
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Royce Peterson

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #65 on: January 15, 2021, 03:21:10 PM »
Actually no, the Detroit Locker doesn't spin any tire at 5MPH or at any MPH while turning. You are simply mistaken.

  Some don't care if both tires spin or not.
     The choice is up to you in the end.
  Randy

Technically yes, it's my choice BUT the local PD considers spinning tires a racing offense and they impound cars for that here.

The locker spins the inside tires very antagonistically even at like 5mph. That nearly got me arrested.

When the Traction-lok goes a Tru-trac is probably the way to go. I have heard though that they have issues with high HP engines? I'll investigate that at the appropriate time.
1968 Cougar XR-7 GT-E 427 Side Oiler C6 3.50 Detroit Locker
1968 1/2 Cougar XR-7 428CJ Ram Air C6 3.91 Traction Lock

Royce Peterson

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #66 on: January 15, 2021, 03:33:05 PM »
I had a friend named Ruben Lopez (RIP) who raced SCCA autocross driving a 1967 Cougar with a very warm Boss 351 (real not imagined) four speed top loader close ratio box and 9 inch rear with 28 spline Detroit H series locker. Ruben sold me his race car when he was tired of it in the mid 1990's and I parted it out. Both of the 28 spline axles were twisted in the splined area as much as 90 degrees!

The H series DL's are very much like the OEM Detroit Lockers Ford used in the 1960's. They make a glorious, wonderful noise going around corners much like a roller coaster ratcheting up a hill.


As an addendum, how many splines are on a 66 Hertz? And why are 31 better than 28? Is it the hardening process or some other methodology in the manufacturing that differentiates then?

    The '66 Shelby is 28 spline as Jim mentioned. The 31 is about 1/8th larger in diameter which doesn't sound like much but is HUGE in terms on strength. 31spline axles were ONLY made in '65-66 for the 427 SOHC A/FX Mustangs in the correct length. I have two sets.. They were first used on Galaxies ( Longer) and ThunderBolt Fairlanes in '64. In a "drag only" situation , the 28 spline driver's side axle will break at around 450 "wheel HP" . The 31 spline axle was designed for 600 wheel hp. Mine haven't failed despite being 55 years old. 3,200 lb high ten /low 11 second '66 Hertz.
  Randy
1968 Cougar XR-7 GT-E 427 Side Oiler C6 3.50 Detroit Locker
1968 1/2 Cougar XR-7 428CJ Ram Air C6 3.91 Traction Lock

Bigfoot

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #67 on: January 15, 2021, 04:16:02 PM »
^^

I like that roller coaster reference Royce!
And I love my Locker.
Right on!
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shelbydoug

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #68 on: January 15, 2021, 04:39:18 PM »
I had a friend named Ruben Lopez (RIP) who raced SCCA autocross driving a 1967 Cougar with a very warm Boss 351 (real not imagined) four speed top loader close ratio box and 9 inch rear with 28 spline Detroit H series locker. Ruben sold me his race car when he was tired of it in the mid 1990's and I parted it out. Both of the 28 spline axles were twisted in the splined area as much as 90 degrees!

The H series DL's are very much like the OEM Detroit Lockers Ford used in the 1960's. They make a glorious, wonderful noise going around corners much like a roller coaster ratcheting up a hill.


As an addendum, how many splines are on a 66 Hertz? And why are 31 better than 28? Is it the hardening process or some other methodology in the manufacturing that differentiates then?

    The '66 Shelby is 28 spline as Jim mentioned. The 31 is about 1/8th larger in diameter which doesn't sound like much but is HUGE in terms on strength. 31spline axles were ONLY made in '65-66 for the 427 SOHC A/FX Mustangs in the correct length. I have two sets.. They were first used on Galaxies ( Longer) and ThunderBolt Fairlanes in '64. In a "drag only" situation , the 28 spline driver's side axle will break at around 450 "wheel HP" . The 31 spline axle was designed for 600 wheel hp. Mine haven't failed despite being 55 years old. 3,200 lb high ten /low 11 second '66 Hertz.
  Randy

I thought I drove over a Police motorcycle? It buffed out though? ::)
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pbf777

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #69 on: January 15, 2021, 04:57:27 PM »
Sometimes the tires don't slip enough. When the car was build he put in the lighter drilled axles. Second outing at Laguna Seca and it snapped one making the left hander into the corkscrew. Now it's got the solid NASCAR axles in it.


     And, with "Locking" or "Locked" type units the axles, each individually, must be capable of the full torque capacity transmitted from the drivetrain, to the total capability of the traction of the singular tire which may present traction, as these units will provide either a 50/50 division or 100/0 torque transfer to which ever tire/wheel resists motion.

     Hence, any of these being utilized will in the advent of one axle failure transmit 100% torque to the remaining intact axle (up to the limitation of tire to road surface traction) and this will general create a torque-steer phenomenon unless the remaining axle instantly fails from the overload.  This not being so prevalent in the "slipping" differential units because despite the claims of their ability to "transfer torque to the wheel with traction", they are truly only "resistance" to the differential action, and generally the "friendlier" they may present themselves, the less capable the prove to be.    ;)

     On the torque steer phenomenon, I had an F350 4 X 4 P.U. I used to off-road regularly, and a broken axle was common enough we would often even carry a spare to change-out in the field so to speak.  I had "Lincoln-Lockers" facilitated front and rear in this truck, and when it would break the rear driving axle, the advantage to the 4 X 4 (and the "full-floating" axle assembly) was one would just engage (lock-in) the front axle and drive home, no wrecker required, but with the "locked" front axle one could not steer the truck with both axles locked-in on hard pavement, so I would just lock-in one side driving with a one wheel drive on the front steer axle of a four wheeled vehicle.  This worked fine with "very" progressive application of the throttle for acceleration or deceleration function, but if abrupt the truck went left or right, like it or not, depending on which: accel or decel and which one axle was locked-in!     :o

     And this driving challenge would general be at the end of the day, with the beer cooler being nearly empty (remember always take more supplies out into the field then you'll need)!     ::)

     Scott.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 05:12:42 PM by pbf777 »

Bob Gaines

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #70 on: January 15, 2021, 05:14:32 PM »
I sold a 65 GT350 to a guy who was clueless about 65 Shelby's .He had several modern Ferraris , Porsche etc. when he got the car home and drove it a little he called all upset because he said the rear end was broken. He said it made all kinds of noise going around a corner and so he  took it to his high end mechanic who immediately pronounced it broke. I had to use great restraint to explain to them both that it was normal for that old technology competition locker to make noise without sounding condescending. I don't know if they believed me . I heard later he changed out the rear end for something quieter. He also complained of how loud it was. I got the impression he only bought the car for bragging rights because I got the impression that he didn't like to drive it.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

pbf777

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #71 on: January 15, 2021, 05:28:56 PM »
     And, if you think a Detroit Locker mounted in a passenger car makes a loud noise, you should hear the noise made with the Detroit Lockers mounted in my M813 5 ton 6 X 6 army truck; that's with the dual rear drive axles and no inter-axle differential,...........everything is bigger, a lot bigger, (each axle assy. weighs more than any Mustang) including the "KA-POW"      :o

     Scott.

427heaven

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #72 on: January 15, 2021, 06:11:40 PM »
I believe you need to figure what type of driving you are going to be doing. Best all around would be the locker , best Drag Race rear end would be a spool, best street fart around driving would be the less expensive clutch pack units. I for one just love the very loud popping cracking and lurching of the locker in my performance cars or race cars. I dont want that action when I am driving around all day with a daily driver type car, my 66 coupe that has a 3.25 trac loc and is very tame for all around usage. Just my experience with different rear end types.