Author Topic: better option than detroit locker?  (Read 2370 times)

gt350hr

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2020, 12:45:16 PM »
   I have no knowledge or experience with a locker made in China.

   Jim ,
      The locker you have is from the time where the springs were in question. Older Ford Motorsport catalogs use to show the date which had "the wrong" springs in them. I don't have one in front of me to tell you how to ID it.
     Randy
Celebrating 44 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

deathsled

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2020, 01:48:29 PM »
I have a Detroit Locker in my Shelby as well. It makes a few noises on occasion and tends to "drag" one tire a bit in turns but nothing annoying enough to be problematic.  The one quirk, if you will is a low speed roll out in first and a quick shift to second and hitting it a bit. The car squats down, front end comes up and the rear pushes right.  Even with 255 tires in the rear there is no chance of traction.  The up side is they are solid.

                                                                                            -Keith
That sounds scary and thrilling at the same time. And that is what Shelbys are. I wouldn't ever trade in the times I've had in mine.
"Low she sits on five spoke wheels
Small block eight so live she feels
There she's parked beside the curb
Engine revving to disturb
She's the princess from his past
Red paint gold stripes damned she's fast"

deathsled

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2020, 02:13:02 PM »
As an addendum, how many splines are on a 66 Hertz? And why are 31 better than 28? Is it the hardening process or some other methodology in the manufacturing that differentiates then?
"Low she sits on five spoke wheels
Small block eight so live she feels
There she's parked beside the curb
Engine revving to disturb
She's the princess from his past
Red paint gold stripes damned she's fast"

acman63

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2020, 02:29:38 PM »
28 for 65/66 .  31 axles are bigger in diameter
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gt350hr

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2020, 03:44:24 PM »
As an addendum, how many splines are on a 66 Hertz? And why are 31 better than 28? Is it the hardening process or some other methodology in the manufacturing that differentiates then?

    The '66 Shelby is 28 spline as Jim mentioned. The 31 is about 1/8th larger in diameter which doesn't sound like much but is HUGE in terms on strength. 31spline axles were ONLY made in '65-66 for the 427 SOHC A/FX Mustangs in the correct length. I have two sets.. They were first used on Galaxies ( Longer) and ThunderBolt Fairlanes in '64. In a "drag only" situation , the 28 spline driver's side axle will break at around 450 "wheel HP" . The 31 spline axle was designed for 600 wheel hp. Mine haven't failed despite being 55 years old. 3,200 lb high ten /low 11 second '66 Hertz.
  Randy
Celebrating 44 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

deathsled

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2020, 04:02:11 PM »
10 to low 11 seconds is pretty damned fast.  I baby my car along. I don't do burnouts or anything like that. Just spirited driving with quick but smooth pullaways. Like Vin Diesel might say...granny shifting along the way.  I do like the idea of heavy duty items on a car even when their strength isn't tested.  The Detroit Locker has me sufficiently interested. I don't believe mine has one but maybe in the future.

Thanks for the info gentlemen. It was also interesting to see the pics on how they look and the videos helped on how they work.
"Low she sits on five spoke wheels
Small block eight so live she feels
There she's parked beside the curb
Engine revving to disturb
She's the princess from his past
Red paint gold stripes damned she's fast"

gt350hr

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2020, 05:34:41 PM »
   I really enjoy the dependability of my Detroit Locker in my race car. I have at least ten set up with various ratios . I am currently using the 5.29 gear set. The traction lock is NOT a good road "race" unit as Royce mentioned. The heat generated by the clutch discs REALLY heats up the oil not to mention all of the clutch material going through the gears and bearings. For real corner RACING the True track , Wave lock, Gold track , and similar "worm gear" units are the smoothest. These are NOT at home on the drag strip. It all boils down to a person's driving style when it comes to cornering and the track being raced on. Some drivers like Dan Gurney(rip) was faster with a "locked" ( read broken ) very high end ( read $2500 in '69 money)Wiseman locker in the Shelby T/A Team car at Laguna Seca in '69. A crew member discovered the car was "dragging" a tire in the pits. Changing to a "working" unit slowed his subsequent lap times by a second and a half! This is obviously why people a so passionate about the style of traction device THEY like. Some don't care if both tires spin or not.
     The choice is up to you in the end.
  Randy
Celebrating 44 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

shelbydoug

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2020, 08:45:11 PM »
  Some don't care if both tires spin or not.
     The choice is up to you in the end.
  Randy

Technically yes, it's my choice BUT the local PD considers spinning tires a racing offense and they impound cars for that here.

The locker spins the inside tires very antagonistically even at like 5mph. That nearly got me arrested.

When the Traction-lok goes a Tru-trac is probably the way to go. I have heard though that they have issues with high HP engines? I'll investigate that at the appropriate time.

pbf777

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2020, 01:15:11 PM »
    O.K., here's another individual's opine on the subject.       ::)

    The Detroit Locker, not something manufactured overseas almost copy for less (as in the Jeep video, a real piece of.........), has proven to be the strongest, least prone to failure, "differential" device one can utilize, the only unit, that when both tires are spinning,  both tires are spinning at the same R.P.M.; and the only thing stronger is a "spool", period!

     Note that as stated by Randy, "Worm-Gear" units are not good drag race applications, and are not as strong and do wear, causing a loss of effectiveness, and even, as observed, apparently when heated (over-heated?) from functioning, an odd occurrence of individual wheel "locking", causing an upsetting re-directional torque steering effect!       :o

    It is an old school ratchet mechanism originally designed for heavy truck use where "friction" type units prove ineffective and unreliable, and therefore suffers some in the N.V.H. department so highly regarded in today's automotive engineering endeavors, but hey, that's part of the fun of old cars, right!       8)

    B.T.W., the Detroit Locker is not (if functioning properly) dragging the inside tire around in a turn, but rather the outside wheel has "unlocked" and is ratcheting ahead of the inside of the turn wheel (this will produce the ratcheting clicking noise, but this is not obtrusive), so now 100% of the torque is applied to this tire and it spins (if a concern, driver control required).  Now, the "big-bang" happens when this slipping/spinning inside wheel catches up to the R.P.M. of the outside wheel which then "re-locks", as either (only one at a time) may turn faster, but neither may turn slower than the ring gear, the torque is now split between the two tires, their mass and their grip, torque now being supplied to the outside wheel, and a torque applied loss to the inside wheel which now stops slipping/spinning, not enough torque/power being supplied to spin both tires, so one experiences the "BIG-BANG", which by the way is not from the locker, but rather a culmination of the movement induced upon the surrounding components of the axle assembly, suspension and even the body work in it's function.

    With the above in mind, one can understand the possible polar opinions on the the driveability of Detroit's, as if one enters turns on trailing throttle, applying throttle mid-turn with any power sum to cause the inside tire to spin, then one receives the experience of the "Locker-Lurch"; but in my opinion and experience, if one "drives" thru the turn under throttle (the way I prefer, as if the rear tires aren't chasing the fronts, then you ain't trying), then although the differential in tire rotation versus distance is coped with by tire slippage, the control is far more calculable.  This is one reason why "Roundy-Rounders" will run spools and stagger tire sizes.  I have also driven several of my vehicles with locked differentials (even my F350 4 X 4 was equipped with "Lincoln-Lockers"    ::) ) as daily drivers, and granted tire wear is unappreciated, and extra care in the rain prudent (I am in Florida), but for aggressive, wanting to "throw- it-around" driving style it works!     ;)

    So in conclusion, if "correct" one runs the Detroit Locker, it-is-what-it-is, and it-is-what-its'-suppose-to-be, ...........be a "MAN"; otherwise, choose one of the other.............. "softer", "gentler", "kinder" differentials,............. and you won't get your  knickers in bind!     

    B.T.W., easy on the rock throwing, I bruise easily.        ::) 

     Scott.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 01:36:16 PM by pbf777 »

deathsled

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2020, 02:06:15 PM »
Interesting dissertation on Detroit Lockers Scott and thank you. I'm going to look into it. The R Models has Detroit Lockers didn't they and the cleaned up at the tracks of I am not mistaken. Three years B production champions. Right? And the U.S. is the biggest racetrack in the world. (Kidding. I observe all posted speed limits. I observe them through my windshield and that's about it.)
"Low she sits on five spoke wheels
Small block eight so live she feels
There she's parked beside the curb
Engine revving to disturb
She's the princess from his past
Red paint gold stripes damned she's fast"

pbf777

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2020, 08:18:29 PM »
Is there a quick an easy way to determine if there is a Detroit Locker in it or do I have to drain the diff oil and tear it apart?
Best,
Richard E.

    Sorry, I didn't respond to your inquiry in my previous post; but the answer is yes!

    Lift one (only one) of the rear tire/wheel off the ground, turn it rearward, it will stop, then with a quick snap and reasonable force rotate it forward direction (sometimes you kinda need to bounce it off the reverse stop), this should, aided with the inertia of the mass, cause the ratchet to open allowing the wheel to be rotated forward ahead of the ring gear and D.L. case, with the click, click, click, clicking sound as the side gear cams.  This may require a couple of attempts as it does require the right touch if the unit just fails to cooperate. Then reverse the rotation, and the unit should re-lock.........."CLUNK"  Only the Detroit does this, so if it does............ and you don't have one...........then something is F.U.!         ;)

     Scott.

tinman

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2020, 09:28:44 AM »
Quote
  I have no knowledge or experience with a locker made in China.

   Jim ,
      The locker you have is from the time where the springs were in question. Older Ford Motorsport catalogs use to show the date which had "the wrong" springs in them. I don't have one in front of me to tell you how to ID it.
     Randy
According to the 92 Motorsport catalog Randy mentioned: all motorsport lockers built after Nov. 15, 1990 have the heavy duty spring (72lbs vs 58lbs). Lockers are dated date - # /month - letter/ year-#. example - 16 M 91 would be December 16, 1991

Mike

deathsled

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2020, 10:03:27 AM »
Is there a quick an easy way to determine if there is a Detroit Locker in it or do I have to drain the diff oil and tear it apart?
Best,
Richard E.

    Sorry, I didn't respond to your inquiry in my previous post; but the answer is yes!

    Lift one (only one) of the rear tire/wheel off the ground, turn it rearward, it will stop, then with a quick snap and reasonable force rotate it forward direction (sometimes you kinda need to bounce it off the reverse stop), this should, aided with the inertia of the mass, cause the ratchet to open allowing the wheel to be rotated forward ahead of the ring gear and D.L. case, with the click, click, click, clicking sound as the side gear cams.  This may require a couple of attempts as it does require the right touch if the unit just fails to cooperate. Then reverse the rotation, and the unit should re-lock.........."CLUNK"  Only the Detroit does this, so if it does............ and you don't have one...........then something is F.U.!         ;)

     Scott.
Thank you Scott. I'm going to give it a shot this weekend. Intellectual curiosity..
"Low she sits on five spoke wheels
Small block eight so live she feels
There she's parked beside the curb
Engine revving to disturb
She's the princess from his past
Red paint gold stripes damned she's fast"

gt350hr

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Re: better option than detroit locker?
« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2020, 10:11:55 AM »
    Thanks Mike ! Saved me looking it up.
  Randy
Celebrating 44 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.