Author Topic: springs restoration  (Read 853 times)

johnzajc@gmail.com

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springs restoration
« on: February 11, 2020, 02:26:42 PM »
Hi--how to accomplish-oil quenched heat treated [heat treating would require metal to be heated to 1,500 degrees requiring to have owen]----or did they just heated to certain temp. and then give them oil bath---hope to find way to restore springs correctly-- thank you----I am referring to front springs on 69 shelby
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 02:28:17 PM by johnzajc@gmail.com »

pbf777

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Re: springs restoration
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2020, 05:45:31 PM »
     A re-oil-quench heat treatment process attempt would not be advised, unless one knew what one was doing in the processes and equipment required (and no, a "Rosebud" & oil can won't get-it!), in which case one wouldn't be inquiring here.

    Let me just say, it ain't that easy, first annealing, then shaping, then heat treatment, then tempering, then re-arcing (leaf) or twisting (coil), and not being the manufacture with the knowledge of the specific steel alloy, with experience in its' reaction to these processes, well suffice to say, "close enough" just won't get it!        ;)

    Just watch those guys on the knife making T.V. show (forget the name?), upon attempting to "heat treat" their steel blades, they F.U. all the time, with blades cracking, breaking on impact, not holding an edge, etc.; and the leaf or coil spring is much more complicated in its' requirements.           

    Or, read up on the difficulties experienced with the early vs. later alloy selection and heat treat procedures for the 1903 Springfield rifles; and realize these were people who supposedly knew what they were doing!       :o

     Scott.

johnzajc@gmail.com

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Re: springs restoration
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2020, 05:57:24 PM »
Scott- thank you for advice, you are more than correct, absolutely it is assignment for shop that specializes for steel treatments. However I was more interested in possibility if in all those years of restorations someone has come up with process that would restore springs to what they were in appearance cosmetically and would constitute concourse correct.  I very much appreciate your express concern that gives me feeling of being part of group that cares .  THANKS AGAIN

pbf777

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Re: springs restoration
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2020, 09:11:42 PM »
     As far as to answer your question of specific processes to acquire the "correct" finish for the springs, with the exception of paint color indicator(s) for application identification the springs I believe since you were asking of how to recreate the production finish, perhaps they were "natural", unpainted otherwise; yes?, no?, I think so, but not betting my meager existence on it!; somebody help out here, before I bury myself!          :-\

    If so, the problem is what is the "natural" finish appearance? In most instances spring steels post heat treat are shot-peened to clean the surface of the impurities (e.g. scale, etc.), blend imperfections in manufacturing (e.g. scores on the surface from the drawing in the forming process, general deburing), and for the further treatment of the surface as in compacting such to add additional resistance to fracture formation, and etc. (yep, I didn't include everything, but........).  In this process most if not all of the coloration from the heat treating is lost (unlike the color case hardening on ones' 1886 Winchester lever action), and one would be left with the effect of the heat generated in the deformation process and in trading of surface material mixing with the base material, creating a color of steel of neither.

    And looking at N.O.S. or original unrestored components, unless sealed against oxygen contact since produced, in paint, & removed in such a fashion as not to change the coloration, & some surface coatings do breathe, grease/oils, although in time this may stain the surface causing discoloration, as petroleum products do oxidize, and before one says nay, what do you have to compare it to?        ;)

    So?  I don't think I helped, but I was trying to perhaps provide a better understanding of what exactly would be the right finish? 

    O.K., so after all that B.S., were they just painted some sorta black?         ::)

     Scott.

   

johnzajc@gmail.com

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Re: springs restoration
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2020, 10:37:01 PM »
Thank you for help---In one of previous post Mr. Spigel mentioned that over the counter replacement were painted black as to protect them from elements while being on shelve. Maybe one of judges will confirm what is correct and acceptable  ---thank you

J_Speegle

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Re: springs restoration
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2020, 11:13:30 PM »
The original heat treated oil quench look can be reproduced in a number of ways depending on your planned usage and access to the tools and products needed.  The clamps would be bare regular steel and should provide a notable contrast to the springs

Of course it all starts out by evaluating the current condition of the springs you have to work with. Right application and markings, shape of the leaves (often one or more may have been replaced over the years) and the condition of the metal (rust pitting and the like) The original surface can look much like bare steel with a little texture or a surface with what appears to look like slightly raised sections with irregular edges if the quenching oils were dirt or right before it was changed out. If all of these meet your needs then they are disassembled and individually cleaned

Some choices for the finishes

1- Painted with just enough to look like the original steel. This finish is likely the easiest but the use and movement of the car will chip and rub off the paint in certain areas and this will invite rusting to start in those areas. Touching up or repairing these areas can be a challenge since if using a spray paint you need to worry about overspray and paint getting on surfaces that would not be that color such as insulators and the clamps. Often to get the tome correct you will need to spray with a couple of different paint colors/formulas some with clears that offer a little metallic to the look.  Too much paint will make them look painted - Not what youíre looking for


2- Plating or dying. You can send them out and have them phosphate at a lower heat (don't want to affect the temper of the springs just color them)  and burnish or work them back to an original look or do them at home using other chemicals. If doing them at home you will need to buy/get/build a large tank or basin - does not have to be a permanent one to hold the leaves during the process. Cold processes (Insta-Black, gun blueing repair fluid and so on) are available as well as heated ones (again with the warning) . After recoloring/plating they will need to be protected with a long term protective oil of your choice, touched up and maintained as time goes by.


Hope this helps

Considered posting a few examples but understand that what we see on our computers is not likely what they look like in person so choose not at this time to add any 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 11:50:57 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle- Mustang & Shelby detail collector, ConcoursMustang.com babysitter :) and Judge

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: springs restoration
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2020, 11:29:53 PM »
Be wary of plating springs.
Hydrogen embrittlement is a real thing.

I have plated springs incorrectly on purpose to find failures, Iíve seen springs literally snap, pop, and break in front of me.

Black oxide and certain phosphating techniques would be best.

johnzajc@gmail.com

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Re: springs restoration
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2020, 02:12:01 AM »
Thank you ---I am sure with all this help I will be able to complete task of rear springs---last question- front springs do they get same treatment????  after all that I think I need drink

J_Speegle

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Re: springs restoration
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2020, 04:07:00 AM »
Thank you ---I am sure with all this help I will be able to complete task of rear springs---last question- front springs do they get same treatment????  after all that I think I need drink

Yes - Basically your aiming for the same treatment/look on the front coil springs as on the leaves that make up the rear leaf spring assembly
Jeff Speegle- Mustang & Shelby detail collector, ConcoursMustang.com babysitter :) and Judge

johnzajc@gmail.com

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Re: springs restoration
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2020, 10:53:28 AM »
thank you

polyglas

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Re: springs restoration
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2020, 07:17:20 PM »
John, typically the front coil springs were painted black on Dearborn 69 Mustangs. Verify your original finish before you restore. A good place to start is under the spring rubber. Black paint is concours correct per MCA & SAAC judging.

johnzajc@gmail.com

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Re: springs restoration
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2020, 07:39:59 PM »
thank you

kingchief

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Re: springs restoration
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2020, 08:47:59 AM »
Here is a photo of a great looking set of restored springs courtesy of Maple Leaf Restoration.

Cheers,

Steve
SFM 6S406

JWH

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Re: springs restoration
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2020, 08:57:46 AM »
I recall reading that the leaf springs should not be blasted. Can anyone verify if this weakens the spring or damages in some way?

CharlesTurner

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Re: springs restoration
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2020, 09:51:38 AM »
Here is a photo of a great looking set of restored springs courtesy of Maple Leaf Restoration.

Those are painted to simulate original finishes. 
Charles Turner
MCA/SAAC Judge