Author Topic: '69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?  (Read 2747 times)

BGlover67

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'69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?
« on: April 04, 2020, 05:37:57 PM »
I just finished watching Wayne Carinni's show where he finished restoring a 1969 De Tomaso Mangusta.  Beautiful restoration, but what surprised me is that is supposedly has it's original engine, but it had a Hipo 289.  Weren't they pretty much gone by 1969?
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JohnB

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Re: '69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2020, 06:08:41 PM »
I just finished watching Wayne Carinni's show where he finished restoring a 1969 De Tomaso Mangusta.  Beautiful restoration, but what surprised me is that is supposedly has it's original engine, but it had a Hipo 289.  Weren't they pretty much gone by 1969?

As far as I know....

289 Hipo = European market
302 = US market.




shelbydoug

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Re: '69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2020, 06:40:45 PM »
I believe that there is one. It is like the tale of the 427 Mustang. It's just an incorrect statement that gets repeated and repeated by journalists, or sales agents, etc.,  that couldn't known the difference and would know even less how to document anything.

Ford kept records of everything sold in North America. That means Marti has the official records.

Mangustas are pretty low production numbers. On the order of original 427 Cobras. Many have sold in the last couple of years for around $400 so you can see where there may be the tendency to embellish the story here and there?

Ford sent ALL engines to Detomaso. All were numbered and installed THERE. They were 68 304 4v with air injection. Detomaso made his own headers for them and installed a "jack-shaft" which brought the accessories to the rear of the engine.

i'm pretty sure that I remember Kevin stating there were no 289 Mangustas in his records. As I remember the one 289 car was some kind of a press car. I don't remember at this moment.

If you're interested though, go over to https://pantera.infopop.cc/ and use the search engine. I'm PanteraDoug over there if you want to say hi. ;)
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chris NOS

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Re: '69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2020, 08:30:26 PM »
i almost bought a 68 Mangusta really originals and it was NOT a 289 .

98SVT - was 06GT

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Re: '69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2020, 09:06:41 PM »
A friend that built the Pantera Mega Buck also rebuilt the 302 in the owners Goose. It was a pretty basic 302. If I remember oil pan was different because input shaft to trans ran under the axles rather than over like in the Pantera.
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shelbydoug

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Re: '69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2020, 09:57:53 PM »
A friend that built the Pantera Mega Buck also rebuilt the 302 in the owners Goose. It was a pretty basic 302. If I remember oil pan was different because input shaft to trans ran under the axles rather than over like in the Pantera.

Dude. The ZF in a Goose is a DF1. It mounts upside down compared a Pantera but similar to the GT40.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the engine oil pan. The input shaft connects to the clutch through the bell house, just like every other Ford engine does.

The engine is a box stock 68 J code.
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Bob Gaines

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Re: '69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2020, 01:11:09 AM »
The Mangusta is very primitive compared to the Pantera . It is ironic that back in the 70's ,80's and early nineties the Mangusta was looked down upon as the red haired step child what with it's lo po 302 ,electrical and over heating issues. In the 90's they started to go up in value and during the 2000's eclipsed the values of the more sorted out and powerful Pantera.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

shelbydoug

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Re: '69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2020, 09:49:37 AM »
The Mangusta is very primitive compared to the Pantera . It is ironic that back in the 70's ,80's and early nineties the Mangusta was looked down upon as the red haired step child what with it's lo po 302 ,electrical and over heating issues. In the 90's they started to go up in value and during the 2000's eclipsed the values of the more sorted out and powerful Pantera.

They were always a small niche group and as such kind of like tryin g to talk to a witches coven?

I remember maybe the first one from about 69 and it had the bell torn out from hitting a man whole cover.

The first one I tried to buy was in maybe 1982 of so? It was Nick Soprano in White Plains.
He wanted 25 for the car. Considering that 289 Cobras were hovering around 30 or so, it was just a passing curiosity.

They seem to have kind of paralled 289's as well. A few really nice 5 and 6 thousand mile cars have apparently traded in the 500 area.


Now what makes you want one is the same thing that causes Cobra Fever. Initially there is some sort of low level viral infection which hides in the blood and sudenly appears years later.

Some stay in denial, and say it's like the flue and will pass into the air when the warm weather comes? Who knows.


To me it is undeniable that they are a very beautiful design, have this strange story of creativity behind them and are like an Italian Movie Star in a red dress, and simply stop traffic when brought into the public.
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Harris Speedster

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Re: '69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2020, 10:08:03 AM »
Once upon a time, when I was Utah John, I bought one out that was located by the amusement park in Utah.
Tom Frost, was selling it for a friend that was ill.
Later, maybe 8 years, Tom himself succumbed to Advanced Diabetes.
John GoGo in Utah might remember.

Red car, very stock, believe it was a 1968, I can not remember.
Did have hipo chrome valve covers, but can not remember for sure if it was hipo, I believe it was a 302 though.
Believe I sold it to a company in Virginia. Guys name was Twee.

Was going to keep it, and sell one of my Pantera's.
Decided to let it go, challenging car to drive, and WAY to low to the ground and fragile.
Many parts from Mangusta Ended up on the Pantera's.

Ended up selling a Playboy Pink Pantera off, but still kept 3 others.
Reminds me of the real ac SC cobra, one off concept Dodge hemi car, 65 shelby with documented ac, carpet rear tray
and many more.
Funny, but I always seemed to have luck grabbing the rare ones.
John
Is this the first futuristic exotic in the world?
Size of an ac cobra, but built in 1935 !
https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/features-stories-and-photos/harris-fwd-speedster-the-story/?PHPSESSID=v4pqtv6hep4ff4rvalrc9qsnj7

honker

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Re: '69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2020, 12:35:41 PM »
These photos are from the Wallace Wyss book "De Tomaso The Man And The Machines" my copy pub. 1991.

This is ( ? ? supposed to be ? ? ) the Mangusta prototype with a 289  with Webbers. In the book Wyss ( ? ?says ? ? ) that De

Tomaso used the 289 because it had been used in the 70P race car.

Mike

PS: There's more in the book about the early engines, I will be back with more, ( due to inaccuracies in the book I will not !)

see posts 12, 13 & 14
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 08:47:13 AM by honker »

2112

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Re: '69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2020, 12:39:31 PM »
Too bad they had so many shortcomings, they are beautiful.

98SVT - was 06GT

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Re: '69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2020, 12:48:32 PM »
A friend that built the Pantera Mega Buck also rebuilt the 302 in the owners Goose. It was a pretty basic 302. If I remember oil pan was different because input shaft to trans ran under the axles rather than over like in the Pantera.

Dude. The ZF in a Goose is a DF1. It mounts upside down compared a Pantera but similar to the GT40.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the engine oil pan. The input shaft connects to the clutch through the bell house, just like every other Ford engine does.

The engine is a box stock 68 J code.

The pan was different (at least on this car) because of the transaxle sitting the engine at least 3" lower than the Pantera. They flipped it in the Pantera to gain ground clearance. I remember seeing stacks of ZFs at Stroppes from a recall on the Pantera.
Previous owner 6S843 - GT350H & 68 GT500 Convert #135.
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98SVT - was 06GT

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Re: '69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2020, 12:54:11 PM »
These photos are from the Wallace Wyss book "De Tomaso The Man And The Machines" my copy pub. 1991.
So right there we know it's not accurate. Wally gets paid for words not facts.
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Side-Oilers

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Re: '69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2020, 01:11:16 PM »
+1   I doubt that anyone actually pays him.  Inaccuracies Inc.
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shelbydoug

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Re: '69 Mangusta used a Hipo 289?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2020, 01:42:54 PM »
Jerry gained notoriety here during the "lawsuit" as being "Carroll's 'Rim job boy'. He started out with little respect and quickly proved why he only deserved more disdain.

He thought he would prove his intellectual prowess here instead showing that he needed help climbing in and being hooking up to his seat belt on the short bus.

He has quite an ego and simply put, "is a legend in his own mind". I'm sure he gives himself high reviews and lots of "atta' boys"?

Things haven't changed much.

I would rely on absolutely NOTHING that he says.
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