SAAC Forum

The Cars => 1967 Shelby GT350/500 => Topic started by: Richstang on March 08, 2018, 11:28:00 AM

Title: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 08, 2018, 11:28:00 AM
The early 1-piece slanted grille was found on approximately the first 75 cars. These cars also had some hand-fabricated brackets, rather crudely made. They used a flat strip of steel, shaped to a band/clamp, for mounting both the low-beam fender and high-beam center of the grille mounted lights. 

At some early point in production Shelby American started making (or cutting?) the slanted grille in 2-pieces to help ease installation. They also changed the mounting of the headlight buckets from 4 band clamps to 4 metal plates - one for each bucket. It seems it started first with the high-beam grille light buckets and then the fender light buckets as well.

This change is thought to coincide with the arrival of Fred Goodell, in early December of 1966. It eliminated a number of fasteners and hand-fabricated parts that all had adjustment variables and must have been labor intensive to make and install. 
 
The plates for the grille light buckets were spot welded to the hood latch support. The fender light plates were still captured with the Shelby license plate/nose support to the radiator core support. (The later version outboard mounted high-beam grill lights used different style of mounting plates.  There were additional sheet metal pieces that would attach to those plate/brackets on Air Conditioned cars to direct air through the radiators.)

The very bottom edge on all of the grilles, early 1-piece and 2-piece as well as the later inboard and outboard versions, got a protective "U" shaped polymer (rubber/plastic) strip. It prevented the bottom of the grille from damaging the painted surface of the lower nose opening. This is missing on many cars. 

There are some other variations of items related to the grilles...such as the presence of added fasteners, one to four, to hold the bottom of the upper nose opening to the top of the license plate/nose support…the 3 different locations of hood pin lanyard attaching points to the top surface of the grilles, the early cars used two locations…the fasteners used to attach the grille to the back of the license plate/nose support and the variations of the license plate/nose support! 

Here’s an initial list of 1-piece and 2-piece grille cars. This should help identify the approximate transitions for each of these versions as well as the headlight bucket mounting method. As always, please tell us if you know of a car that can be included or of other variations, errors or additions.

NOTE: Many unique early parts don’t seem to have been inventoried for service replacements. Over the years, cars that were in accidents and/or restored were likely to have had later style parts used. This was because the same styles were not available or the originals were so crude and difficult to install. Also, the fender light components rusted so terribly that using later parts may have been necessary. SAAC Registry footnotes and known car histories are important to this topic.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 08, 2018, 11:29:48 AM
Car # Model    Grille    Light Mounting    SA Completion - Source
001    GT350    1pc      bands              11/4/66 – photo RP
002    GT350    1pc      bands              10/20/66 - PDB shelbyforum / BobG bands
003    GT350    1pc?    bands?             10/19/66 – photo RP modified to outboard
004    GT350    1pc      bands              10/31/66 – registry notes 1pc / owner “GT350N4” shelbyforum
008    GT350    1pc      bands              11/5/66 - JD / BobG bands
010    GT350     ?        plates               1/9/67 - photos 6972boss update 5/22/2019
013    GT350    1pc?    bands?             11/22/66 –photo NVSAAC vertical inboard / changed?
014    GT350    1pc      bands?             11/3/66 - JD
016    GT350    1pc      bands              11/2/1966 - photo Brian S update from Mecum 5/18/2019
017    GT350    1pc      bands              10/31/66 - PDB shelbyforum / photo RP
018    GT350    1pc      bands              10/19/66 – mecum photo
019    GT350    1pc?    bands?             10/20/66 – photo NVSAAC vertical inboard / changed?   
020    GT350    1pc      bands              11/2/66 – registry notes 1pc
021    GT350    1pc      bands              11/4/66 – registry notes 1pc
022    GT350    1pc      bands              11/5/66 – photo RP
023    GT350    1pc      bands              11/4/66 – photo JD
024    GT350    1pc      bands              10/26/66 – registry notes 1pc / bands per owner updated 3/21/2018
025    GT350    1pc      bands              6/26/67 - Modified currently with vertical inboard/plates; some early parts sold off for #0032 Bob G
026    GT350    1pc      bands              11/4/66 - photo / repro grille
028    GT350    1pc      ?                     11/7/66 – JD / PDB Shelby forums
029    GT350    1pc      bands              10/31/66 – registry notes 1pc / photo RP
030    GT350    1pc      bands              10/31/66 – registry 1pc / photo MM Jan 92 update 4/4/18
031    GT350    1pc      bands              10/26/66 - registry notes 1pc / photo RP
032    GT350    1pc      bands              11/7/66 – photo RP NVSAAC - BobG early parts from #0025
036    GT350    1pc      bands              11/7/66 – registry notes 1pc / RP photo
043    GT350    1pc      bands              11/11/66
046    GT350    1pc      bands              11/9/66 - JD
048    GT350    1pc      bands              11/5/66 - JD
050    GT350    1pc      bands              11/9/66 - photos
054    GT350    1pc      ?                     11/5/66 – registry notes 1 pc
059    GT350    1pc      bands              10/31/66 – photo JD
060    GT350    1pc      bands              10/31/66 - photo JD
062    GT350    1pc      bands              11/6/66 – photo RP
063    GT350    1pc      bands              11/14/66 – registry notes 1 pc / photo RP
066    GT350    1pc      bands              10/31/66 - photo JD
069    GT350    1pc      bands              11/10/66 - PDB shelbyforum / owner 1pc & bands update 3/21
071    GT350    ?         bands              11/30/66 – photo RP update 4/12/2018
073    GT350    1pc      bands              11/30/66 - PDB shelbyforum
078    GT350    1pc      bands              10/31/66 – owner / JD
082    GT350    1pc      bands              12/13/66 - photo RP SAAC 40
083    GT350    1pc      bands              11/5/66 - photo / repro grille BrianG
085    GT350    1pc      bands              11/6/66 – photo JD SAAC 42
086    GT350    1pc      ?                     11/7/66 – registry notes 1pc
087    GT350    1pc      bands              11/8/66 - owner
089    GT350    1pc      bands              11/6/66 – photo JD
095    GT350    2pc Vrt plates              3/3/67 – photo JD RP vertical inboard
100    GT500    2pc      bands              12/7/66 – EJ photo
102    GT350    ?          plates             12/5/66 - photo RP
107    GT350    2pcVrt? plates?           12/1/66 – photo Mustang Monthly May 1992 restored/ 2pc vertical grille changed? update 3/15/2018
111    GT350    ?          ?                    12/6/66 – photo JD
112    GT350    2pc      both               12/5/66 – registry notes 2 pc – JD both plates & bands
117    GT350    2pcVrt  plates             12/8/66 - photo vertical inboard / changed?
126    GT350    ?          plates             12/12/66 - JD
127    GT350    2pc      plates             12/8/66 - JD / display board notes update 7/10/2018
128    GT350    ?          ?                    12/16/66 - JD
130    GT350    1pc      plates             12/8/66 – registry notes 1pc – photo RP
132    GT350    1pc      ?                    12/12/66 – registry notes 1pc
135    GT350    ?         plates              12/13/66 - photo RP NVSAAC
136    GT350    2pc      plates             12/14/66 – photo JD NVSAAC / 2pc grille per third owner update 3/9/2018
140    GT350    2pc      plates             12/14/66 – photos JD / MM photo June 96 update 4/4/18
142    GT350    2pc      ?                    12/16/66 – registry notes 2pc
143    GT350    2pc      plates             12/19/66 – registry / JD / RP photo
145    GT350    2pc      plates             1/6/67 – owner / JD
146    GT350    1pc      ?                    12/14/66 – registry notes 1pc
149    GT350    2pc      plates             12/29/66 - photo RP Updated 1/16/2020
151    GT350    2pc      plates             12/19/66 – photo JD
153    GT350    2pcVrt? ?                   12/14/66 - Restored/changed? JD
156    GT350    2pcVrt? plates            12/16/66 - photo SAAC forum update 6/10/2018
157    GT350    ?         plates             12/14/66 – photo JD
158    GT350    2pcVrt plates             12/16/66 – photo RP vertical inboard
159    GT350    ?         plates             12/21/66 – photo RP
166    GT350    ?         plates             12/21/66 – photo SAAC forum
167    GT350    ?         plates             1/4/67 – photo owner
168    GT350    2pc     plates             12/28/66 – photo RP updated 10-2019
169    GT350    2pc     plates             12/21/66 – photo JD
171    GT500    ?         ?                    1/19/67 - JD
173    GT500    ?         plates             12/12/66 – photo RP
185    GT500    2pc     plates             1/4/67 – owner; no lower grille when bought 46 yrs ago
186    GT500    2pc     ?                    12/22/66 – PDB Shelbyforums
187    GT500    2pc     plates             12/22/66 - owner / owner FH notes plates update 3/9/2018
194    GT500    2pc     plates             1/5/67 - photo
195    GT500    2pc     plates             1/4/67 – photo JD
202    GT500    2pc     ?                     1/4/67 – photo JD
203    GT500    ?         plates             12/30/66 – photo NVSAAC
208    GT500    2pc     plates             1/4/67- owner / plates per owner update 3/17/2018
212    GT500    ?        plates             1/3/67 - Barrett-Jackson photo update 6/25/2018
213    GT500    2pcVrt plates             1/4/67 – JD RP photo vertical inboard
234    GT500    2pc     plates             1/4/67 – photo NVSAAC
244    GT500    2pc     plates             1/4/67 - photos Brian S. 6/5/19
253    GT500    2pc     plates             1/5/67 - photo RP 8/11/19
258    GT500    2pc     ?                    1/9/67 – JD / photo RP SAAC 34
264    GT500    2pc    plates              1/11/67 - PDB Shelbyforums / plates photo RP update 5/4/2018
304    GT500    2pc    plates              1/11/67 - photo RP had 2pc, owner changed to CNC 1pc
316    GT500    2pc    plates              1/16/67 - PDB Shelbyforums
320    GT500    2pc    plates              1/12/67 - JD
328    GT500    2pc    plates              1/6/67 - JD
329    GT500    2pc    plates              1/10/67 – photo RP / owner confirms 2pc & plates with photos update 3/14/2018
341    GT500    2pc    plates              1/13/67 – photo RP
363    GT500    2pc    plates              1/12/66 – registry notes 2pc / plates photo update 5/6/2018
413    GT500    2pc    ?                     1/30/67 - JD
425    GT500    ?        plates              1/20/67 - photos sales ad update 3/18/2018
458    GT500    2pc    plates              1/30/66 - PDB Shelbyforums / owner confirms update 3/13/2018


A big THANKS to JD for all his helpful knowledge and working with me to get this put together.


Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 08, 2018, 11:30:28 AM
1 piece & 2 piece grille

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-080318112444-578922.jpeg)
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 08, 2018, 11:31:18 AM
Headlight buckets

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-080318112444-5802301.jpeg)
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 08, 2018, 11:31:50 AM
center bracket

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-080318112444-5791473.jpeg)

Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 08, 2018, 11:32:08 AM
Inboard variations

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-080318112445-5811124.jpeg)
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 08, 2018, 11:32:24 AM
one possible method of attaching the lower grille on the front side of the rear lip, on the nose support

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-080318112445-5821581.jpeg)


A second method seen is overlapping the upper and lower grille. It was attached on the back side of the rear lip, on the nose support
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Bob Gaines on March 08, 2018, 12:05:43 PM
The early 1-piece slanted grille was found on approximately the first 75 cars. These cars also had some hand-fabricated brackets, rather crudely made. They used a flat strip of steel, shaped to a band/clamp, for mounting both the low-beam fender and high-beam center of the grille mounted lights. 

At some early point in production Shelby American started making (or cutting?) the slanted grille in 2-pieces to help ease installation. They also changed the mounting of the headlight buckets from 4 band clamps to 4 metal plates - one for each bucket. It seems it started first with the high-beam grille light buckets and then the fender light buckets as well.

This change is thought to coincide with the arrival of Fred Goodell, in early December of 1966. It eliminated a number of fasteners and hand-fabricated parts that all had adjustment variables and must have been labor intensive to make and install. 
 
The plates for the grille light buckets were spot welded to the hood latch support. The fender light plates were still captured with the Shelby license plate/nose support to the radiator core support. (The later version outboard mounted high-beam grill lights used different style of mounting plates.  There were additional sheet metal pieces that would attach to those plate/brackets on Air Conditioned cars to direct air through the radiators.)

The very bottom edge on all of the grilles, early 1-piece and 2-piece as well as the later inboard and outboard versions, got a protective "U" shaped polymer (rubber/plastic) strip. It prevented the bottom of the grille from damaging the painted surface of the lower nose opening. This is missing on many cars. 

There are some other variations of items related to the grilles...such as the presence of added fasteners, one to four, to hold the bottom of the upper nose opening to the top of the license plate/nose support…the 3 different locations of hood pin lanyard attaching points to the top surface of the grilles, the early cars used two locations…the fasteners used to attach the grille to the back of the license plate/nose support and the variations of the license plate/nose support! 

Here’s an initial list of 1-piece and 2-piece grille cars. This should help identify the approximate transitions for each of these versions as well as the headlight bucket mounting method. As always, please tell us if you know of a car that can be included or of other variations, errors or additions.

NOTE: Many unique early parts don’t seem to have been inventoried for service replacements. Over the years, cars that were in accidents and/or restored were likely to have had later style parts used. This was because the same styles were not available or the originals were so crude and difficult to install. Also, the fender light components rusted so terribly that using later parts may have been necessary. SAAC Registry footnotes and known car histories are important to this topic.
"The early 1-piece slanted grille was found on approximately the first 75 cars." I disagree with this statement and think it was used on more cars. How many more I am not sure but my guess would be at least 75 or more. Regardless I have seen one piece grill cars in the 100's.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           "At some early point in production Shelby American started making (or cutting?) the slanted grille in 2-pieces to help ease installation. They also changed the mounting of the headlight buckets from 4 band clamps to 4 metal plates - one for each bucket. It seems it started first with the high-beam grille light buckets and then the fender light buckets as well."
This statement seems to imply that when the one piece grill was separated (which still had the wide headlight bezels made into it) that the fender light brackets changed at that point. Whether that was the intention or not I believe the change to the much simpler flat plate fender brackets coincided with the introduction of the new and improved style of 2 piece grill which was different from the one piece style cut in two. The new and improved style was the one used all the way until discontinued in favor of the outboard style grill.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              " The fender light plates were still captured with the Shelby license plate/nose support to the radiator core support."  For clarity I wanted to mention that the fender brackets were attached regardless of early or late by being bolted to the radiator support along with the license plate/nose support. I didn't want anyone to think "captured" meant one piece.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 08, 2018, 12:48:57 PM
JD and I put a lot of time into building this list and the intro. Hopefully it can be appreciated for that effort. We certainly don't expect everything written to be set in stone and welcome the feedback, and suggestion for changes or additions.


Bob thanks for the reply,

(Of course, I don't speak for JD in my reply below)
-I took the "approximately 75" 1-pc slanted grilles from an old forum post. I agree that the number is likely much higher. I suspect the first 100 cars in DSO 84-2505 all had them as well as few stragglers after that. We can see those few cars on the list above (#130, 132, and 146).
-I initially thought the grille change from 1-piece to 2-pieces coincided with the change from bands to plates. As you said, for simplicity reasons. There are a few cars that brought this point into question. (The same cars listed above with 1 pc grilles after 100.) I have only seen the 1pc with plates on #130, in photos. The other two are registry notes. Also vintage pictures show car #100 with bands and a 2 piece grille around Dec 9th 1966. Since that was an engineering car it certainly could have been changed from its initial build. As we find more cars to add to the list we'll have to see if these few cars are exceptions to the rules or prove to have been changed at some point.
-I'll let JD reply on your third point.
 

Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: BGlover67 on March 08, 2018, 01:10:13 PM
You can make a strong argument that having an original one piece slanted grill is a rare occurrence indeed.  Of the possible 100 plus cars that received them, most were replaced with later versions since the grill was one of the most common things to get wrecked.  If you had one for sale, you could ask a small fortune these days. Metal backed hoods suffered the same fate, but thankfully there were many more originally produced.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: 2112 on March 08, 2018, 04:16:22 PM
Cool Thread    8)
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: JD on March 08, 2018, 06:11:19 PM
I agree that it is highly likely that more than 75 cars got this version of the '67 grille.

"At some early point in production Shelby American started making (or cutting?) the slanted grille in 2-pieces to help ease installation. They also changed the mounting of the headlight buckets from 4 band clamps to 4 metal plates - one for each bucket. It seems it started first with the high-beam grille light buckets and then the fender light buckets as well."

I believe this to be multiple points as well and don't think Rich intended that to be thought as one all-encompassing change.  (He did make them separate sentences)  At least one car got the two versions of headlight bucket mounting (plates for the inboard grille lights and band/clamps with hand-made brackets for the fender lights) and it has the 2-piece slanted/angled grille and I wouldn't be surprised if there was more than one.

Just for clarity, the 4 versions of '67 grilles were:
1-piece slanted/angled with centered (Inboard) High-beam lights
2-piece slanted/angled with centered (Inboard) High-beam lights
2-piece Vertical (the upper grille setting on the upper opening) with centered (Inboard) High-beam lights
2-piece Vertical (the upper grille setting on the upper opening) with the High-beam lights mounted (Outboard) at the outer ends of the upper grille opening.  The mesh on these two grille parts was different than the 3 versions above.

This thread is discussing the first 3 versions to get feed-back from current and previous owners to try and better define the time frame and overlap of the grille variations and the head light bucket mounting variations.

 "The fender light plates were still captured with the Shelby license plate/nose support to the radiator core support."
Yes, the separate piece(s) for the fender mounted headlight buckets, regardless of which type, was always bolted with the Shelby license plate/nose support to the Ford radiator core support.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Bob Gaines on March 08, 2018, 07:16:57 PM
The problem with surveys like this is that you will get mis information from those owners who don't know for sure but because it is a certain way on their car "IT HAS TO BE ORIGNAL" because they  unknowingly (or knowingly) think their car has never been messed with. That misinformation may improperly skew the results . I hope that is not the case.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Harris Speedster on March 08, 2018, 08:40:54 PM
This post should be placed where it can be easily viewed.
You guys have nailed it, and the info and pics should find a easily accessible home herein !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards,
John
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: roddster on March 08, 2018, 10:37:23 PM
  It is my understanding that somebody is making (or was making) repops of the early grill.  Either the one piece or the two piece.  I do not know who it is, and, it has been a long time since I have seen one (a repopped one) on Ebay.
  Any comments on this are welcome.

  The metal pattern is known as "airline".  So, who can make those headlight enclosures for the grill?  I'm asking in case somebody needs one some day.  Right now, I don't.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Bob Gaines on March 08, 2018, 11:04:21 PM
  It is my understanding that somebody is making (or was making) repops of the early grill.  Either the one piece or the two piece.  I do not know who it is, and, it has been a long time since I have seen one (a repopped one) on Ebay.
  Any comments on this are welcome.

  The metal pattern is known as "airline".  So, who can make those headlight enclosures for the grill?  I'm asking in case somebody needs one some day.  Right now, I don't.
Mike Patak in Blair Nebraska was having the 2 piece version made. I am not sure if he still is . http://mikesclassiccars.net/
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 08, 2018, 11:27:52 PM
The problem with surveys like this is that you will get mis information from those owners who don't know for sure but because it is a certain way on their car "IT HAS TO BE ORIGNAL" because they  unknowingly (or knowingly) think their car has never been messed with. That misinformation may improperly skew the results . I hope that is not the case.

I imagine there are always going to be people who believe their car is untouched at some level. Some may be right, but some wrong, especially after 50 plus years. Developing these lists, showing the patterns with the time frames, should help to narrow down the possibilities of which car had these unique features. With each added car it tightens up the timing and sharpens up the overall picture. There will certainly be exceptions with the continuous changing 1967 model year, but anything really off should stand out. You can only get by so far on trying to skew the results. There's only a small window of time for these gray areas to fit.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: JD on March 08, 2018, 11:39:19 PM
The problem with surveys like this is that you will get mis information from those owners who don't know for sure but because it is a certain way on their car "IT HAS TO BE ORIGNAL" because they  unknowingly (or knowingly) think their car has never been messed with. That misinformation may improperly skew the results . I hope that is not the case.

Yes, I agree with you Bob all good and valid points.  Some of these are cars that have not changed hands often and some that have been redone/restored BUT we were hoping that those owners can comment on what they took off and had to replace with the later more "readily available" parts.

And this will bring some (many?) comments that may not prove helpful or cause consternation requiring more explaining and doubt but we thought we'd try and see what input arrives.  At least get a better awareness of yet another '67 Shelby series of variables out there and better understood. 

There seems to be a number of terms and references that are only partly understood or explained (upper scoop lights, large-letter vs small-letter intakes, the tire letter sizes etc.).   Too many cars get redone by the "order every thing new out of the catalog" method and the original stuff gets tossed and the differences with them.

I was told a number of times stuff was wrong on #26 only later to find out it wasn't.  Just (maybe foolishly) trying to get some more of the differences understood, documented and out there for guys to see.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Alan on March 08, 2018, 11:55:03 PM
JD, do you guys want closeups of our brackets, etc?
Max
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: JD on March 09, 2018, 08:26:34 AM
Max, yes that would help.  If you still have my e-mail please send me some.

JD
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 09, 2018, 10:01:45 AM
Updated list...
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: SpartanSmoke on March 09, 2018, 10:32:06 AM
Thanks for all the work/time that goes into a list like this.  Very interesting reading.

Mike
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Shelby_r_b on March 09, 2018, 01:52:27 PM
Still amazes me just how many changes were made during the 1967 Shelby run.  Just incredible!
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: roddster on March 09, 2018, 09:03:42 PM
  It is VERY important to pay attention to the S/A completion date so as not to get confused as to how they did not complete the cars in strict VIN numerical order.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: cbrown on March 09, 2018, 10:35:25 PM
Damn I miss #18!!  Can I call it premature ????   Love the  input
 :(
Chris
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 09, 2018, 11:36:57 PM
Chris,
I'd miss #18 too! Was there something else on the horizon...or just time to move on?

Roddster,
We have the list sorted by SA completion dates as well. It just doesn't seem to be needed a this point in time. The window of transition for these specific changes appears to be very narrow. Only a handful of cars are questionable in their current configurations.


Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: JD on March 10, 2018, 12:05:47 AM
Max sent some images (THANKS).

Right fender light Bracket and band clamp holding bucket

End view of the band clamp, bucket and bracket
 
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: BGlover67 on March 10, 2018, 03:54:33 AM
Love that hand laid fiberglass!
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Shelby_r_b on March 10, 2018, 09:26:07 AM
Damn I miss #18!!  Can I call it premature ????   Love the  input
 :(
Chris

#18 is a GREAT car!  I completely understand why you miss it, Chris.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 14, 2018, 11:38:44 AM
two updates (1 yesterday, 1 today #0329 both 2 pc and plates confirmed by owner)
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 15, 2018, 04:41:17 PM
update adds car #0107 from Mustang Monthly May 1992
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 15, 2018, 04:57:18 PM
Here's is another version showing the 2 pc grille attachment. (The first photo was in reply #6)
This time the lower 2pc grille is attached on the back side lip of the nose support, same side as the upper grille.
The 4 screws that hold this lower grille appear to be in the slotted openings for adjusts left to right.


(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-150318165354.jpeg)
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Bob Gaines on March 15, 2018, 05:50:12 PM
Here's is another version showing the 2 pc grille attachment. (The first photo was in reply #6)
This time the lower 2pc grille is attached on the back side lip of the nose support, same side as the upper grille.
The 4 screws that hold this lower grille appear to be in the slotted openings for adjusts left to right.


(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-150318165354.jpeg)
I would like to add that , the lower grill does not typically bend forward as the picture shows. The lower grill appears to be installed down too far. It appears all the way down close to the fiberglass surface in the picture which means it was bent forward to fit the space.  It is also missing the plastic extruded channel along the bottom. I was just afraid someone might copy that because they thought it was supposed to be that way if I didn't mention something.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 15, 2018, 06:36:39 PM
Here's is another version showing the 2 pc grille attachment. (The first photo was in reply #6)
This time the lower 2pc grille is attached on the back side lip of the nose support, same side as the upper grille.
The 4 screws that hold this lower grille appear to be in the slotted openings for adjusts left to right.


(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-150318165354.jpeg)
I would like to add that , the lower grill does not typically bend forward as the picture shows. The lower grill appears to be installed down too far. It appears all the way down close to the fiberglass surface in the picture which means it was bent forward to fit the space.  It is also missing the plastic extruded channel along the bottom. I was just afraid someone might copy that because they thought it was supposed to be that way if I didn't mention something.

Bob,
Thanks for pointing out the incorrect bent lower grille and its missing paint protector / plastic extruded channel.  (I should have mentioned that.)

If the lower grille is moved up one row to fix that problem it would be overlapping the upper grille. This raises a couple of questions that I didn’t get a chance to ask JD off line;
-Would the 2 overlapped grille pieces mean the upper grille is also too low? (hidden by the channel over the top of the grille)
-Or, were there two different grilles used to ensure a proper fitment and no gaps?
(I previously read they were cut in 2pcs, but I'm not sure how that could create an overlap unless both pieces were moved) 
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Bob Gaines on March 15, 2018, 07:34:53 PM
Here's is another version showing the 2 pc grille attachment. (The first photo was in reply #6)
This time the lower 2pc grille is attached on the back side lip of the nose support, same side as the upper grille.
The 4 screws that hold this lower grille appear to be in the slotted openings for adjusts left to right.


(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-150318165354.jpeg)
I would like to add that , the lower grill does not typically bend forward as the picture shows. The lower grill appears to be installed down too far. It appears all the way down close to the fiberglass surface in the picture which means it was bent forward to fit the space.  It is also missing the plastic extruded channel along the bottom. I was just afraid someone might copy that because they thought it was supposed to be that way if I didn't mention something.

Bob,
Thanks for pointing out the incorrect bent lower grille and its missing paint protector / plastic extruded channel.  (I should have mentioned that.)

If the lower grille is moved up one row to fix that problem it would be overlapping the upper grille. This raises a couple of questions that I didn’t get a chance to ask JD off line;
-Would the 2 overlapped grille pieces mean the upper grille is also too low? (hidden by the channel over the top of the grille)
-Or, were there two different grilles used to ensure a proper fitment and no gaps?
(I previously read they were cut in 2pcs, but I'm not sure how that could create an overlap unless both pieces were moved)
I think that you will find that the grill in the picture could be move up one notch in the mesh and it would meet where the top section starts.  The fashioner in both the top and the bottom grill mesh allows for a little adjustment in ether the upper or lower grill. Although tight I believe this particular grill could have been adjusted in this way. FYI the grill would have most likely been cut by the supplier because a large shear would be required to cut without distortion of the metal. I don't think such a piece of equipment was used at SA for other onsite fabrications.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: JD on March 15, 2018, 11:00:50 PM
Here's is another version showing the 2 pc grille attachment. (The first photo was in reply #6)
This time the lower 2pc grille is attached on the back side lip of the nose support, same side as the upper grille.
The 4 screws that hold this lower grille appear to be in the slotted openings for adjusts left to right.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-150318165354.jpeg)

As Bob pointed out the bottom of the grille (regardless of how many pieces) should not be bent outward and there should be a protective strip along the bottom (I think that was in the opening paragraphs) to prevent the bottom of the grille from damaging the paint below, see attached image of the white show car.  Also the length of this strip seems to have varied.

"The very bottom edge on all of the grilles, early 1-piece and 2-piece as well as the later inboard and outboard versions, got a protective "U" shaped polymer (rubber/plastic) strip. It prevented the bottom of the grille from damaging the painted surface of the lower nose opening. This is missing on many cars."

Because of the hand-assembled variables of these cars some of the angled two-piece grilles, if the lower piece was attached to the back side of the nose/license plate support, may have had some over lap.

The pattern should align to look as though it's one piece.  The pattern of the mesh has every third vertical a bit heavier (wider) than the two on either side of it. The wide slots allow some side to side adjustment.  (The outboard mesh is different)
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: 2112 on March 16, 2018, 10:35:22 AM
Anyone have a source for the U-shaped polymer strip?
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: JD on March 16, 2018, 11:37:31 AM
PM sent
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: markboss on March 16, 2018, 01:08:14 PM
JD,
 i need one also..
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: JD on March 16, 2018, 01:14:14 PM
^^^^ OK and noted.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Alan on March 16, 2018, 01:16:53 PM
Would you add me too?
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: JD on March 16, 2018, 01:20:02 PM
^^^ OK, yes noted
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 16, 2018, 02:32:45 PM
Bob,
Thanks for the reply on the 2 pc grille fitment and the likelihood of the supplier cutting the 2 pieces to size as needed. That help put it all in perspective.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: roddster on March 17, 2018, 09:12:22 AM
  The chat over the lower grill.  Hardly an original car due to the LeMans stripes and also no lower rivets in the fiberglass to the lower frame rail.  Yep, very early cars did not get them.
  Also:  Can we start to mention some kind of date to the other photos.  Here is why: some of the fasteners are painted.  Should they be, or should they not be?  In years to come, folks are going to want to know,
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: jswoody on March 17, 2018, 10:20:57 AM
Anyone have a source for the U-shaped polymer strip?

JD, could you send me the information on the U-shaped strip as well please?
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Bob Gaines on March 17, 2018, 10:49:34 AM
  The chat over the lower grill.  Hardly an original car due to the LeMans stripes and also no lower rivets in the fiberglass to the lower frame rail.  Yep, very early cars did not get them.
  Also:  Can we start to mention some kind of date to the other photos.  Here is why: some of the fasteners are painted.  Should they be, or should they not be?  In years to come, folks are going to want to know,
The date in this instance is irrelevant because the fashioners were not painted in regular production.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: JD on March 17, 2018, 10:52:03 AM
JD, could you send me the information on the U-shaped strip as well please?

^^^ PM sent
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on March 21, 2018, 05:46:40 PM
Updates on #0069 and #0425

Edit also #0024
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Alan on March 26, 2018, 07:47:51 PM
Would you add me too?

JD,
Received the protective strip today.  Is it cut to the proper length or should I mark the center of the strip and work outwards on both sides?
Max
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: JD on March 26, 2018, 10:39:56 PM

JD,
Received the protective strip today.  Is it cut to the proper length or should I mark the center of the strip and work outwards on both sides?
Max
[/quote]

Yes, that is a good way to do it.

Thanks, Max
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: roddster on April 01, 2018, 09:04:18 PM
04/01/2018 UPDATE:  I followed up on the lead that Bob posted.  Mike Patak at Mikes Classic cars.  Well, he did not have any and suggested I call Jeff at Semo Mustang.  Did that.  Jeff had one and now I have one.  Jeff said that, these are very rare and the next time he has some made, it will not be many as so few get requested.  He does not want to have this kind of inventory laying around for years.
My suggestion is that if you think you will ever want one, call Jeff at Semo Mustang and request one for the next order.  Jeff did not say when, if ever, that will be.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: 2112 on April 01, 2018, 10:19:27 PM
04/01/2018 UPDATE:  I followed up on the lead that Bob posted.  Mike Patak at Mikes Classic cars.  Well, he did not have any and suggested I call Jeff at Semo Mustang.  Did that.  Jeff had one and now I have one.  Jeff said that, these are very rare and the next time he has some made, it will not be many as so few get requested.  He does not want to have this kind of inventory laying around for years.
My suggestion is that if you think you will ever want one, call Jeff at Semo Mustang and request one for the next order.  Jeff did not say when, if ever, that will be.

A Grill?
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: roddster on April 01, 2018, 10:41:30 PM
Yes. The early slant mounted, center beams type the very early cars got.  And it is the one piece type.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Shelby_r_b on April 01, 2018, 11:50:22 PM
Yes. The early slant mounted, center beams type the very early cars got.  And it is the one piece type.

Great find! I understand that these grills are extremely hard to find.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Bob Gaines on April 02, 2018, 12:30:49 AM
Yes. The early slant mounted, center beams type the very early cars got.  And it is the one piece type.

Great find! I understand that these grills are extremely hard to find.
These are reproduction grills that are being discussed but be that as it may no one reproduces them currently and when they did it was in small numbers . I have never seen a new genuine grill for sale . I have only seen maybe a half dozen nice used grills for sale in all my years. That means they are very rare.  The grill mesh itself is not that hard to get done . The person that makes the grills for Branda can do them for instance however the trim bezels around the center high beams are a problem to have made.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on April 04, 2018, 01:56:55 PM
updates in red on list #0030 and #0140
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: BGlover67 on April 04, 2018, 03:23:15 PM
Just for conversations sake, how many folks on here would be interested in buying a really nice quality slanted one or two piece early grill?  I’ve been speaking with a friend about the logistics of having them fabricated, but I’d love to gauge the level of interest first. 
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Shelby_r_b on April 04, 2018, 05:13:35 PM
Call me a hoarder, but I’d be interested even though I don’t need one.  :D
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: JD on April 04, 2018, 10:25:56 PM
If you need one of the protective strips for the bottom of the grille on a '67 Shelby I have some available at this link in the Parts For Sale section of the SAAC Forum:
https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=1237.0

Also, if you need some of the headlight bucket grommets I have those too, available at this link below in the Parts For Sale section of the SAAC Forum:
https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=254.0

JD
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Survivor on April 18, 2018, 07:43:08 PM
JD-pm sent
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on May 06, 2018, 02:16:11 PM
updates #0264 and #0363
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on June 10, 2018, 11:31:56 AM
#0156 added to list (page 1 reply #2)

Another forum member asked if we could list the cars by SA completion dates instead of by VIN sequence.
I've been holding off until we fill in more of the November and December builds so there are less "?" marks.
If anyone might know of a car not on our list please let us know. 
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on May 18, 2019, 05:53:47 PM
It's been a long tine since I've been able to make any update here.

#00016 at Mecum Indy now added and as expected. (Thanks Brian!)


We're still looking for any early cars not on the list, especially anything in the #00090 through #00125 VIN range.
I think that is where we may see the change over occurred from 1pc to 2 pc and from band/clamps to plates.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Bob Gaines on May 19, 2019, 03:39:14 PM
I talked to Jeff Sneathen this past weekend at the Meacum Auction and he said that he made a small run of one piece grills. You might call SEMO Mustang for any details. 
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: 6972boss on May 21, 2019, 07:02:59 PM
#10 (not mine) slant grille
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on May 22, 2019, 11:10:30 AM
#10 (not mine) slant grille

We can see the center grille light support plates on it.
It might be a 2 pc slanted grille, not the typical one piece grille expected on an early car.
The 1/9/67 SA completion date could be the reason for that. Thanks for posting the photo.
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Bob Gaines on May 22, 2019, 11:41:27 AM
#10 (not mine) slant grille

We can see the center grille light support plates on it.
It might be a 2 pc slanted grille, not the typical one piece grille expected on an early car.
The 1/9/67 SA completion date could be the reason for that. Thanks for posting the photo.
+1 2pc .
Title: Re: 67 Slant Grilles 1pc/2pc & headlight bucket mounting bands/plates -Got em?
Post by: Richstang on August 11, 2019, 11:44:53 AM
I've updated the original list (still by VIN number order) on page 1 in reply #1.

Since we are not finding many additions to the data, I am adding a second list in SAI completion date order. (previously requested)
This second list focuses on the approximate time the transition took place (12/1/66 - 12/7/66) showing some cars built before and after this timeframe.
NOTE; These are based on how cars appear in photos. They are not based on any documentation as nothing is known to exist for this changeover.

063    GT350    1pc      bands     11/14/66 – registry notes 1 pc / photo RP
071    GT350    ?         bands      11/30/66 – photo RP update 4/12/2018
073    GT350    1pc      bands     11/30/66 - PDB shelbyforum
107    GT350    2pc?    plates?    12/1/66 – photo Mustang Monthly / restored/changed?
102    GT350    ?         plates      12/5/66 - photo RP
112    GT350    2pc      both       12/5/66 – registry notes 2 pc – JD both plates & bands
111    GT350    ?         ?             12/6/66 – photo JD
100    GT500    2pc      bands     12/7/66 – EJ photo (grille changed ? to 2pcs in Dec ’67)
117    GT350    2pcVrt  plates     12/8/66 - photo vertical inboard / changed?
130    GT350    1pc      plates     12/8/66 – registry notes 1pc – photo RP
127    GT350    2pc      plates     12/8/66 – JD / owner display board 2018-7
134    GT350    2pc?    plates?    12/8/66 – currently has outboard grille? - likely changed
126    GT350    ?         plates      12/12/66 - JD
132    GT350    1pc      ?            12/12/66 – registry notes 1pc
173    GT500    ?         plates      12/12/66 – photo RP
082    GT350    1pc      bands     12/13/66 - photo RP SAAC 40
135    GT350    ?          plates     12/13/66 - photo RP NVSAAC
136    GT350    2pc      plates     12/14/66 – photo JD NVSAAC / 2pc per 3rd owner
140    GT350    2pc      plates     12/14/66 – photos JD / photo MM June 96
146    GT350    1pc      ?             12/14/66 – registry notes 1pc
153    GT350    2pcVrt  ?            12/14/66 - Restored/changed? JD
157    GT350    ?         plates      12/14/66 – photo JD