Thought it might be interesting to discuss the 66 GT350 portion of the film. Clips are numbered so that we can focus on the same clip. The clip notes are simply my observation at the moment and I invite other opinions and especially observations of the same clip. Hopefully this will benefit us all.
If you would also like to focus on the particular section of the film the clips were taken from here is the link again to the full film. Guess someone else can start discussions of other parts of the film in an appropriate section of this site if they wish
https://www.ina.fr/index.php/contenus-editoriaux/articles-editoriaux/1966-caroll-shelby-de-pilote-de-course-a-ingenieur-automobile (https://www.ina.fr/index.php/contenus-editoriaux/articles-editoriaux/1966-caroll-shelby-de-pilote-de-course-a-ingenieur-automobile)
First set of clips for consideration
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Did use the program I used to process the clips to improve the contrast and brightness to hopefull help us see details better. If you find this a concern we can go to the screen captures and shown originally in the film with no adjustment.
Parking Lot 1
PL1-
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-210420205537.jpeg)
Look;s like a shot of a group of dark 66 GT350's with bright wheels possibly suggesting Magnum 500's and possibly a group of Hertz cars. All cars in shot have LeMans stripes
Barely in the shot on the right is a white car and what appears to be a small table.
As would be expected there is no evidence in the picture of the factory tie down sticker on the rear valance
PL1b-
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-210420210610.jpeg)
No copyright is claimed in [content copied] and to the extent that material may appear to be infringed, I assert that such alleged infringement is permissible under fair use principles in U.S. copyright laws. If you believe material has been used in an unauthorized manner, please contact the poster.
Parking Lot 2
PL2- Appears (due to color and stripe) to be a group of white Hertz 66 GT350
In this picture you can see the identification cards in the front windshield and the outline of the tach.
If your wondering. At this side of the parking lot there was a sound wall between this area and the runways on the other side.
Parking Lot 3
PL3- Group of dark colored cars without Leman's stripes on the left side. Also notice the dark flat colored painted wheels. These may be painted Magnum 500's
From this angle the mirrors, side scoops and the windshield cars are easier to make out
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-210420205552.jpeg)
Parking Lot 4
PL4- Dark and dirty, a group of dark colored cars (some with stripes and others without) wait their turn. Car in the middle provides a slighter better angle to see the finish on it's wheels
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-210420205620.jpeg)
No copyright is claimed in [content copied] and to the extent that material may appear to be infringed, I assert that such alleged infringement is permissible under fair use principles in U.S. copyright laws. If you believe material has been used in an unauthorized manner, please contact the poster.
More to follow
Thanks for the enlargements. I grew up near LAX, in the S-A days and I believe the "sound wall" was also a "jet wash deflector."
The Going Thing might be able to shed additional light on this.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on April 25, 2020, 02:02:38 AM
Thanks for the enlargements. I grew up near LAX, in the S-A days and I believe the "sound wall" was also a "jet wash deflector."
The Going Thing might be able to shed additional light on this.
Pretty sure I don't have any idea of what the correct/official names of things are around an airport ;)
Next section of the film shows Shelby pulling into the factory area by passing by the guard shack and parking a Cobra in front of the main building and walking into the office area. Pictures showing some of the area around the buildings are included below.
PL5- Group of cars we first see parked behind the guard shack appear to be three white coupes. It appears that they may be lacking rear bumpers and may be three of the larger (20 total in all) number of Trans Am coupes (group I and II) Shelby built for racing
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-230420194223.jpeg)
PL6- Another though mixed exterior colored cars are parked in front of the other large out building. Since the car is moving at a decent clip and the camera panning with it we don't get a nice clear picture of the cars and buildings in the background
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-230420194239.jpeg)
PL7- Hard to tell if all of the cars int he background have all of there tires and wheels. Not sure. Could these be cars with issues waiting their turn to be fixed?
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-230420194306.jpeg)
PL8- He pulls up in front of the main building parking on the far side (not sure why they staged it this way - likely an oversight on the directors part) of a new 66 GT350. At first thought it might be a company car assigned to one of the important people but its lack of license plate quickly put an end to that possibility Shipping tie down sticker is visible on the rear valance
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-230420194322.jpeg)
No copyright is claimed in [content copied] and to the extent that material may appear to be infringed, I assert that such alleged infringement is permissible under fair use principles in U.S. copyright laws. If you believe material has been used in an unauthorized manner, please contact the poster.
Next the film is edited to show the inside of the production building and the line - Coming up
Quote from: J_Speegle on April 25, 2020, 07:06:53 PM
Quote from: Side-Oilers on April 25, 2020, 02:02:38 AM
Thanks for the enlargements. I grew up near LAX, in the S-A days and I believe the "sound wall" was also a "jet wash deflector."
The Going Thing might be able to shed additional light on this.
Pretty sure I don't have any idea of what the correct/official names of things are around an airport ;)
I believe that they are called jet blast deflectors. A few pilots around here might know. 8)
Quote from: J_Speegle on April 25, 2020, 07:06:53 PM
Quote from: Side-Oilers on April 25, 2020, 02:02:38 AM
Thanks for the enlargements. I grew up near LAX, in the S-A days and I believe the "sound wall" was also a "jet wash deflector."
The Going Thing might be able to shed additional light on this.
Pretty sure I don't have any idea of what the correct/official names of things are around an airport ;)
I have most typically heard them referred to as blast walls.
Wow
what a wonderful find from 66 Hertz Production on LAX...
I just looked at the hole Film, and it shows the inside much better than in the "Ford goes Racing" and
"Carroll Shelby Mustang GT Promo Shelby American" vids i found on youtube...
and it shows some never seen pics bevor, like the Dynometer Room on LAX.
Please allow me to put some of the stuff from here / or the Video in my "LAX" Thread to bring
some new life in the Thread...
http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=6549.0
Some Thoughts to your shown pics:
-The hole Parking Lot you show above are completly behind Hangar 9 where the regular Production Line was.
the cars go on left side inside the building an nearly on the end of LAX right side out of the hangar where they
drived to the parking lot.
-Mr. Shelby drives his Cobra from the entrance Gate to the left side, bevor the Gate of Hangar 8 and here bevor
the Show Car / Presentation Area, i dont know why but perhaps this was one of the rare places some shadow was
on the hole LAX Area
-i will do some calender reworks, maybe we can suggest when in 66 / or even in late 65 ? / the film is maked.
Keep on going
and the Wall ist just called "Blast Wall" in the Blueprints of LAX, like you can see in my thread also.
Greets from Germany
Stephan
Keep the info coming, Stephan.
OK, "blast wall" it is.
In the Air Force we called it a blast shield or blast fence. Many an important discussion was had behind said apparatus 😉.
Quote from: J_Speegle on April 25, 2020, 07:07:01 PM
Next section of the film shows Shelby pulling into the factory area by passing by the guard shack and parking a Cobra in front of the main building and walking into the office area. Pictures showing some of the area around the buildings are included below.
PL5- Group of cars we first see parked behind the guard shack appear to be three white coupes. It appears that they may be lacking rear bumpers and may be three of the larger (20 total in all) number of Trans Am coupes (group I and II) Shelby built for racing
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-230420194223.jpeg)
PL6- Another though mixed exterior colored cars are parked in front of the other large out building. Since the car is moving at a decent clip and the camera panning with it we don't get a nice clear picture of the cars and buildings in the background
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-230420194239.jpeg)
PL7- Hard to tell if all of the cars int he background have all of there tires and wheels. Not sure. Could these be cars with issues waiting their turn to be fixed?
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-230420194306.jpeg)
PL8- He pulls up in front of the main building parking on the far side (not sure why they staged it this way - likely an oversight on the directors part) of a new 66 GT350. At first thought it might be a company car assigned to one of the important people but its lack of license plate quickly put an end to that possibility Shipping tie down sticker is visible on the rear valance
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-230420194322.jpeg)
Next the film is edited to show the inside of the production building and the line - Coming up
Thanks for dissecting the film and your observations.
Questions.
If a car was ordered by Hi-Po Motors, and was to be delivered to them less than five minutes away , would a rail trans sticker have been fitted as just a matter of corse?
Would it have Lic plate fitted at SA or at Dealer?
TIA
Quote from: 6s2020 on April 26, 2020, 12:18:11 AM
Questions.
If a car was ordered by Hi-Po Motors, and was to be delivered to them less than five minutes away , would a rail trans sticker have been fitted as just a matter of corse?
The tie down stickers were applied at San Jose. The guys working there didn't know how the cars would be transported from that plant and its believed, because of this the instructions were that every car got on like every other sticker. Now if stripes were applied on that specific car at SA then the sticker would need to be removed since it was in the way of applying the masking tape that outlined the stripes for the painter
The tie down instructions could be applied to truck transport purposes also though every driver did what the company wanted or what they found that worked especially the ones that transported hundreds of the cars
Quote from: 6s2020 on April 26, 2020, 12:18:11 AM
Would it have Lic plate fitted at SA or at Dealer?
TIA
If the car was sold to the general public the selling dealer would have applied the plates or ordered them depending on the laws of the county or state it was sold in. That is why we see groupings in some of the license plate sequences for certain groups of cars and not in other cases. Don't want to chance that any further since we will be focusing on particular states or areas - not the focus of this thread
If if the car was to be a a company car then you get into manufactures plates and other provisions so that the car could be operated on the street, insured and that sort of thing. Allot of it can be a book keeping thing also.
For our focus the film next moves to the factory floor. In this case over the pit portion of the room
AL1- This clips shows the best view of the worker (just legs :) in the pit.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-260420165146.jpeg)
AL2- To the left and the right on the edges of the pit are long florescent lights to illuminate the undercarriage. On the one bench we see some hardware and an air impact gun. On the other best I can make out a couple of cans of an aerosol spray. The yellow to the right shows the dolly the car is sitting on as it travels down this portion of this line. We'll see another car on a dolly from a different angle later. It has wheels and it guided in a track in the floor on both sides of the pit area.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-260420165134.jpeg)
AL3- We can see in this picture a worker kneeling down on the rear of this car or the front of the next. Have an idea of what he is doing but can't be certain. Conclusion based only a few clues and a guess or two :)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-260420165052.jpeg)
AL4- Grill paint removed and new emblem in place. Mirror and hood is attached. At this point Monte Carlo bar is visible, air cleaner in there and the "white" spot on the passenger side of the engine compartment is likely the battery inspection sticker
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-260420165106.jpeg)
AL5- Young worker with an air impact gun now walking forward towards the first car. We see bins and parts to the right hand side of the picture we'll get to in a moment
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-260420165121.jpeg)
No copyright is claimed in [content copied] and to the extent that material may appear to be infringed, I assert that such alleged infringement is permissible under fair use principles in U.S. copyright laws. If you believe material has been used in an unauthorized manner, please contact the poster.
More moving from the front lower pictures to a more elevated angle
AL6- Young worker has made his way to the first car and we get a wider look at this end of the floor/room
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-260420165040.jpeg)
AL7-Even wider look
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-260420165023.jpeg)
No copyright is claimed in [content copied] and to the extent that material may appear to be infringed, I assert that such alleged infringement is permissible under fair use principles in U.S. copyright laws. If you believe material has been used in an unauthorized manner, please contact the poster.
Did this picture separately as I expect it may create the most discussion so far.
AL8- I took the picture above and highlighted a few things I noticed. Sure others will see other details. Trying to stay with what we see and would like to see us stay with a narrow focus (66 GT350 production shown in the film) but we'll see how this goes
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-260420165001.jpeg)
Arrows
Red - Tires with what appears to be painted rims. Are these the "take off's" that were installed at San Jose and replaced with the style that matched the order of a particular car. That's my guess
Purple - Sway bars. If the wheels right next to them are take off's then are these the sway bars removed from the cars as deliver from San Jose or the new ones? No way of telling.
Dark Blue - Three bin's. Could these also be for parts removed from the cars that would be resold to recyclers. Possibly items such as original sway bars, exhaust manifolds and so on
Light Blue - Couple of tall racks. Purpose?
Yellow - Couple more racks. Don't see a bunch of boxes or a stack of parts waiting to be installed. Tools and or smaller hardware?
Light Green - Paint booth? Car inside is pretty low when compared to the car below.
Dark Green - Another car still on the wheeled dolly with no wheels and tires at this point
Again just my observations
No copyright is claimed in [content copied] and to the extent that material may appear to be infringed, I assert that such alleged infringement is permissible under fair use principles in U.S. copyright laws. If you believe material has been used in an unauthorized manner, please contact the poster.
More later :)
This is great - thanks for the pictures and detail, Jeff!
Quote from: J_Speegle on April 30, 2020, 02:14:19 PM
Did this picture separately as I expect it may create the most discussion so far.
AL8- I took the picture above and highlighted a few things I noticed. Sure others will see other details. Trying to stay with what we see and would like to see us stay with a narrow focus (66 GT350 production shown in the film) but we'll see how this goes
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-260420165001.jpeg)
Arrows
Red - Tires with what appears to be painted rims. Are these the "take off's" that were installed at San Jose and replaced with the style that matched the order of a particular car. That's my guess
Purple - Sway bars. If the wheels right next to them are take off's then are these the sway bars removed from the cars as deliver from San Jose or the new ones? No way of telling.
Dark Blue - Three bin's. Could these also be for parts removed from the cars that would be resold to recyclers. Possibly items such as original sway bars, exhaust manifolds and so on
Light Blue - Couple of tall racks. Purpose?
Yellow - Couple more racks. Don't see a bunch of boxes or a stack of parts waiting to be installed. Tools and or smaller hardware?
Light Green - Paint booth? Car inside is pretty low when compared to the car below.
Dark Green - Another car still on the wheeled dolly with no wheels and tires at this point
Again just my observations
More later :)
Hello,
thanks for more pics and details.
i am not so the technik details for the cars, but when i goes inside ob LAX i will do my best to give some more
information.
I dont think the "Light Green Arrow" Car is coming from the Paint Booth iside LAX Hangar.
in 66 the cars are putting together in a 3 Row Way inside LAX
i do some cross pic research and hope i found some good ones.
this well knows pic is from 65 Production at the beginning
cars come in on the pit lane and stand on a 2nd row bevor leaving the hangar
we see there is a lot of space between pit lane and Paint booth
(https://abload.de/img/11b5kzg.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=11b5kzg.jpg)
for 66 Production i found this one from another Video, but only in
bad qualitiy.
but we can see there are 3 Rows of production
(i think it is filmed right bevor the Paint Booth)
(https://abload.de/img/unbenannt663pnjl8.jpg) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=unbenannt663pnjl8.jpg)
so when looked again of your new Pic i would mostly think
it is the second row we see
(https://abload.de/img/fdndji9.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=fdndji9.png)
for last pic i found another one from the french video but you didnt
post it at this moment
i think we see the 3rd Row and behind the Shelby the wall from
the paint booth (notice the "No Smoking" Letters on the Wall)
(https://abload.de/img/unbenanntzzzzzzzxtkug.png) (https://abload.de/image.php?img=unbenanntzzzzzzzxtkug.png)
Greets from Germany
Stephan
Quote from: Szabo on April 30, 2020, 04:56:38 PM
Hello,
thanks for more pics and details.
i am not so the technik details for the cars, but when i goes inside ob LAX i will do my best to give some more
information.
I worry that comparing different years may not be helpful (just sharing out loud) since things often got moved around to suit new needs and improve flow as well as other needs between one year or period of production. We see that, within reason, at the ford plants where belts used for moving cars are disassembled and moved around the floor/building to suit a new need. Just a concern. Not a big deal in those days to move a booth (for example) and to focus on just that detail the closer shot we have of the hoods in the booth being painted makes the second line over about the right distance shown in the French film about right IMHO in comparison. But not a big point/deal :)
Quote from: Szabo on April 30, 2020, 04:56:38 PM
I dont think the "Light Green Arrow" Car is coming from the Paint Booth iside LAX Hangar.
in 66 the cars are putting together in a 3 Row Way inside LAX
The bright reflection from the sun at the end of the building may be something else but to me it appears to be the side wall of a structure of some type
Yes the picture from another source does show that the assembly line wove back and forth, it appears, forming three lines at least. We don't know what may be taking place outside of the camera view
Of course we're all trying to take crumbs and make some sense of them 55 years later peering through only a small hole the films and still provide. Thanks for the discussion, additions and opinions. How it all works together for a better understanding over time
Quote from: Szabo on April 30, 2020, 04:56:38 PMfor last pic i found another one from the french video but you didnt
post it at this moment
i think we see the 3rd Row and behind the Shelby the wall from
the paint booth (notice the "No Smoking" Letters on the Wall)
Yes we/I had not gotten to that portion of the film yet - kind of was trying to post them in order as they were shown
Don't believe the No Smoking would prove that its a booth ( other details may) since areas like paint or cleaning solutions would have require the same warning signs in the general locations based on county or city rules. Was a firefighter for over 30 years is a similar metro
Please keep this going, Jeff. I know there aren't many replies yet in this topic, but don't take that as a lack of interest. I'm sure there are plenty of others like me who are reading this and learning, but who don't have any constructive comments yet.
Steve
Quote from: SFM6S087 on May 01, 2020, 03:54:10 AM
Please keep this going, Jeff. I know there aren't many replies yet in this topic, but don't take that as a lack of interest. I'm sure there are plenty of others like me who are reading this and learning, but who don't have any constructive comments yet.
Steve
^^^ YES!! Thanks to all.
Jeff,
The pictures on dollies and stacks of indistinguishable parts along side could be because this group had "over ride" traction bars which obviously would require interior removal. Your thoughts?
Randy
Quote from: gt350hr on May 01, 2020, 11:25:13 AM
Jeff,
The pictures on dollies and stacks of indistinguishable parts along side could be because this group had "over ride" traction bars which obviously would require interior removal. Your thoughts?
Randy
Randy ,maybe so but given the carb install picture that would indicate a later car the time frame would most likely be after the time when the override were used.
Bob ,
Which one was the carb install? I didn't watch the video , just looked at the posted pictures.
Randy
Quote from: gt350hr on May 01, 2020, 12:43:27 PM
Bob ,
Which one was the carb install? I didn't watch the video , just looked at the posted pictures.
Randy
In the video a Ford carb is being installed on a automatic car . That would indicate probably after 900 or so. That was also the time that the override traction bars were discontinued.
Thanks , I'll look at the film.
Quote from: gt350hr on May 01, 2020, 11:25:13 AM
Jeff,
The pictures on dollies and stacks of indistinguishable parts along side could be because this group had "over ride" traction bars which obviously would require interior removal. Your thoughts?
Randy
Not sure where your came up with the group being cars with the over-rides. I must have missed something. Nothing I've seen so far would determine when the film or individual shots were taken only when they couldn't ;) Items "in front" (from the camera mans view) of the bins are sway bars.
The intake ( to be shown in the later sections of the film not yet posted) was being installed on dark colored (non- white) car. Can't make out a filler tube ( if there) for the automatic but "IF" the that part of the film was taken around the same time of day the other sections were taken, of the line - those cars had chrome magnums which ( as you know) were most often seen on Hertz cars though other non-Hertz cars received them also.
Later in the film there is welding going on under one of the cars at the rear suggesting, possibly, that the worker was welding the forward under ride attachment point to the frame rail
Referring back to picture labeled AL8- Just to orientate the viewer to other pictures of the assembly line we've seen from 65 and 67 there is a large fan on the right hand side wall just in front of a large dark colored pipe. In colored pictures the lower part of the pipe is painted red. The spot, where ever it was in the large floor area seems to have been a popular point for many different camera people to shot pictures from. Didn't mean to go off thread just wanted to offer offer that observation. Maybe we can discuss the changes made to the inside of this building through the years in other threads on that subject yet to be
Quote from: J_Speegle on May 01, 2020, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: gt350hr on May 01, 2020, 11:25:13 AM
Jeff,
The pictures on dollies and stacks of indistinguishable parts along side could be because this group had "over ride" traction bars which obviously would require interior removal. Your thoughts?
Randy
Not sure where your came up with the group being cars with the over-rides. I must have missed something. Nothing I've seen so far would determine when the film or individual shots were taken only when they couldn't ;) Items "in front" (from the camera mans view) of the bins are sway bars.
The intake ( to be shown in the later sections of the film not yet posted) was being installed on dark colored (non- white) car. Can't make out a filler tube ( if there) for the automatic but "IF" the that part of the film was taken around the same time of day the other sections were taken, of the line - those cars had chrome magnums which ( as you know) were most often seen on Hertz cars though other non-Hertz cars received them also.
Later in the film there is welding going on under one of the cars at the rear suggesting, possibly, that the worker was welding the forward under ride attachment point to the frame rail
Randy's theory (regarding overriders) could be correct. According to the Registry, the installation of Autolite carbs began with serial #6S801 which had overriders, Koni's, Mico, etc. I also believe that the healthy amount of sparks/slag that is coming from the passenger side-rear are from a cutting torch (one of their favorite precision tools) being used to remove the factory outer rear end bump-stop brackets from the frame.
.........to be continued, I'm sure.
Frank
Quote from: OldGuy on May 01, 2020, 08:25:17 PM
Quote from: J_Speegle on May 01, 2020, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: gt350hr on May 01, 2020, 11:25:13 AM
Jeff,
The pictures on dollies and stacks of indistinguishable parts along side could be because this group had "over ride" traction bars which obviously would require interior removal. Your thoughts?
Randy
Not sure where your came up with the group being cars with the over-rides. I must have missed something. Nothing I've seen so far would determine when the film or individual shots were taken only when they couldn't ;) Items "in front" (from the camera mans view) of the bins are sway bars.
The intake ( to be shown in the later sections of the film not yet posted) was being installed on dark colored (non- white) car. Can't make out a filler tube ( if there) for the automatic but "IF" the that part of the film was taken around the same time of day the other sections were taken, of the line - those cars had chrome magnums which ( as you know) were most often seen on Hertz cars though other non-Hertz cars received them also.
Later in the film there is welding going on under one of the cars at the rear suggesting, possibly, that the worker was welding the forward under ride attachment point to the frame rail
Randy's theory (regarding overriders) could be correct. According to the Registry, the installation of Autolite carbs began with serial #6S801 which had overriders, Koni's, Mico, etc. I also believe that the healthy amount of sparks/slag that is coming from the passenger side-rear are from a cutting torch (one of their favorite precision tools) being used to remove the factory outer rear end bump-stop brackets from the frame.
.........to be continued, I'm sure.
Frank
I believe the last car known to receive over-rides was 6S919 and the first car known to have under-rides was 6S923. If the Autolites started with 6S801 then it looks like these cars should be in the range between 6S801 and 6S919 (or possibly 6S922).
Steve
Quote from: SFM6S087 on May 02, 2020, 12:49:19 AM
Quote from: OldGuy on May 01, 2020, 08:25:17 PM
Quote from: J_Speegle on May 01, 2020, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: gt350hr on May 01, 2020, 11:25:13 AM
Jeff,
The pictures on dollies and stacks of indistinguishable parts along side could be because this group had "over ride" traction bars which obviously would require interior removal. Your thoughts?
Randy
Not sure where your came up with the group being cars with the over-rides. I must have missed something. Nothing I've seen so far would determine when the film or individual shots were taken only when they couldn't ;) Items "in front" (from the camera mans view) of the bins are sway bars.
The intake ( to be shown in the later sections of the film not yet posted) was being installed on dark colored (non- white) car. Can't make out a filler tube ( if there) for the automatic but "IF" the that part of the film was taken around the same time of day the other sections were taken, of the line - those cars had chrome magnums which ( as you know) were most often seen on Hertz cars though other non-Hertz cars received them also.
Later in the film there is welding going on under one of the cars at the rear suggesting, possibly, that the worker was welding the forward under ride attachment point to the frame rail
Randy's theory (regarding overriders) could be correct. According to the Registry, the installation of Autolite carbs began with serial #6S801 which had overriders, Koni's, Mico, etc. I also believe that the healthy amount of sparks/slag that is coming from the passenger side-rear are from a cutting torch (one of their favorite precision tools) being used to remove the factory outer rear end bump-stop brackets from the frame.
.........to be continued, I'm sure.
Frank
I believe the last car known to receive over-rides was 6S919 and the first car known to have under-rides was 6S923. If the Autolites started with 6S801 then it looks like these cars should be in the range between 6S801 and 6S919 (or possibly 6S922).
Steve
Steve,you could narrow that down if the car can be confirmed to have overrides. I don't think that has been established yet.It is still a "could be"possibility however.
Quote from: OldGuy on May 01, 2020, 08:25:17 PM
Randy's theory (regarding overriders) could be correct........
The sparks later in the film could just as easily be from a number of other processes including welding at this point and with no additional supporting evidence. This would open up a much larger period of production.
Next scene following along with the way the film presents them. At about 2:00 minutes in. Easy to see that this car represents a period or car earlier in its conversion than the cars were viewed earlier in the film. The film makers apparently made no effort to show the conversion in assembly order just some random pictures to represent the total conversion. Only a very small part of the over all film
Taken low from the front of one dark Mustang.
AL9-
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-010520181036.jpeg)
It appears to show a worker at the passenger rear of the car welding at the rear of the car. My current thought would be he is welding on the forward under ride frame bracket for under-ride cars or could be from an earlier period and the results of trimming/shaping the Mustangs rearend bumper (the rubber ones) brackets on over-ride cars . Between him and the camera we see a collection of parts and possibly tools on the concrete floor highlighted from behind by the sparks produced by the welding
AL10-
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-010520181114.jpeg)
For discussion purposes I've place arrows to just some of the items that may be of interest
Orange - We see the factory 66 Mustang grill with the blacked out area in the center still there ( to be cleaned off later in the conversion process and the lack of the running horse emblem at this point in the process
Green - Appears to me to be chrome edge of the rim suggesting this is one of the chromed Magnum 500 wheels
Light Blue - Large tool? Possibly impact gun with handle facing camera. Hard to tell for sure given the picture and angle
Yellow - Bottom edge/surface of oil pan. Factory Mustang? or COBRA? Looks to me on this car its the stamped steel factory Mustang style at this time.
Red - Thought this might be the passenger side tie rod assembly at first but the shadow above appears to show the adjustment clamps and bolts of one at the time installed on the car. A wrench? Hard to tell with seeing only an outline and if we could change the angle of view it might be easier to make out. Around it are allot of small items possibly nuts and bolts.
Purple - Workers coveralls
Same arrow identifications for the following clip from the same screen - Less sparks showing in this screen capture maybe the angle of the work changed
AL11-
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-010520181101.jpeg)
No copyright is claimed in [content copied] and to the extent that material may appear to be infringed, I assert that such alleged infringement is permissible under fair use principles in U.S. copyright laws. If you believe material has been used in an unauthorized manner, please contact the poster.
More to follow
The standard oil pan shape in the picture confirms to me that this time frame was one where Ford had stopped doing the engine mods for what ever reason and SA was doing the engine mod installs as the intake install portion of the clip suggests. The intake is easy to take on and off which made me think it could possibly be a photo op. I don't believe so now. It is hard to say when in 66 production Ford started back doing the conversion. Ford could do it at a lower cost which was the big incentive.
There's a few frames at the 43-44 second mark that can narrow down the time period the film was taken, at least part of it, to March 1966, which puts the production firmly in underride territory.
This is just after Shelby drives through the guard booth in the 427 Cobra and parks next to the 66 GT350. The calendar in the guard booth is plainly visible, not quite good enough resolution to clearly see the details but you can see the 1st day of the month is a Tuesday and there are 31 days. The only 1966 calendar that matches that is March. The race shop footage at the 2:53 mark matches this as we see what appears to be P/1015 still mostly in it's Daytona configuration.
The assumption of course is that the sequences showing the calendar, 66 GT350 production, and race shop footage were all shot at about the same time. That seems likely IMO, it makes sense journalists coming from France would do it all in the same trip.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/236-120620001618.jpeg)
If SAAC was still giving out Eagle Eye rewards, there would be a bunch connected to this discussion. Amazing detective work here! 8)
Quote from: s2ms on May 03, 2020, 04:35:42 PM
There's a few frames at the 43-44 second mark that can narrow down the time period the film was taken, at least part of it, to March 1966, which puts the production firmly in underride territory.
This is just after Shelby drives through the guard booth in the 427 Cobra and parks next to the 66 GT350. The calendar in the guard booth is plainly visible, not quite good enough resolution to clearly see the details but you can see the 1st day of the month is a Tuesday and there are 31 days. The only 1966 calendar that matches that is March. The race shop footage at the 2:53 mark matches this as we see what appears to be P/1015 still mostly in it's Daytona configuration.
The assumption of course is that the sequences showing the calendar, 66 GT350 production, and race shop footage were all shot at about the same time. That seems likely IMO, it makes sense journalists coming from France would do it all in the same trip.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/236-030520161544.jpeg)
Fantastic sleuthing by everyone!!
Quote from: s2ms on May 03, 2020, 04:35:42 PM
There's a few frames at the 43-44 second mark that can narrow down the time period the film was taken, at least part of it, to March 1966, which puts the production firmly in underride territory.
Nice fine Dave. Wonder if that matches a delivery of three coupe also.
In any case everyone looking and sharing their findings in a somewhat orderly way has provided insight as we hoped it would.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 02, 2020, 03:36:09 PM
The standard oil pan shape in the picture confirms to me that this time frame was one where Ford had stopped doing the engine mods for what ever reason and SA was doing the engine mod installs as the intake install portion of the clip suggests. The intake is easy to take on and off which made me think it could possibly be a photo op. I don't believe so now. It is hard to say when in 66 production Ford started back doing the conversion. Ford could do it at a lower cost which was the big incentive.
I'm glad you no longer believe that the intake install part of the video was staged.
But you seem to take it for granted that Ford installed some of the Shelby engine accessories on some of the 1966 GT350's. To my knowledge that has not been established. I agree that Ford could do that at a lower cost, I've just not seen evidence that that actually occurred during the 1966 production run - only evidence that it "might" have occurred, and even getting to that "might" requires a few assumptions.
If you have any information or new evidence of Ford installing the Shelby engine accessories on any of the 1966 GT350's, you may want to create a new topic just for that, so we don't disrupt the great flow of information going on here.
Steve
Quote from: SFM6S087 on May 04, 2020, 05:21:24 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 02, 2020, 03:36:09 PM
The standard oil pan shape in the picture confirms to me that this time frame was one where Ford had stopped doing the engine mods for what ever reason and SA was doing the engine mod installs as the intake install portion of the clip suggests. The intake is easy to take on and off which made me think it could possibly be a photo op. I don't believe so now. It is hard to say when in 66 production Ford started back doing the conversion. Ford could do it at a lower cost which was the big incentive.
I'm glad you no longer believe that the intake install part of the video was staged.
But you seem to take it for granted that Ford installed some of the Shelby engine accessories on some of the 1966 GT350's. To my knowledge that has not been established. I agree that Ford could do that at a lower cost, I've just not seen evidence that that actually occurred during the 1966 production run - only evidence that it "might" have occurred, and even getting to that "might" requires a few assumptions.
If you have any information or new evidence of Ford installing the Shelby engine accessories on any of the 1966 GT350's, you may want to create a new topic just for that, so we don't disrupt the great flow of information going on here.
Steve
I suppose that you forget we have established that the start and stop had happened before . That was in late 65 and early 66 production. We have also established that at least it had started back up again by 67 production. It is reasonable to assume that a attempt was made ASAP given the cost saving incentive after the time frame of the film . That is the reason for my statement.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 04, 2020, 10:56:22 AM
Quote from: SFM6S087 on May 04, 2020, 05:21:24 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 02, 2020, 03:36:09 PM
The standard oil pan shape in the picture confirms to me that this time frame was one where Ford had stopped doing the engine mods for what ever reason and SA was doing the engine mod installs as the intake install portion of the clip suggests. The intake is easy to take on and off which made me think it could possibly be a photo op. I don't believe so now. It is hard to say when in 66 production Ford started back doing the conversion. Ford could do it at a lower cost which was the big incentive.
I'm glad you no longer believe that the intake install part of the video was staged.
But you seem to take it for granted that Ford installed some of the Shelby engine accessories on some of the 1966 GT350's. To my knowledge that has not been established. I agree that Ford could do that at a lower cost, I've just not seen evidence that that actually occurred during the 1966 production run - only evidence that it "might" have occurred, and even getting to that "might" requires a few assumptions.
If you have any information or new evidence of Ford installing the Shelby engine accessories on any of the 1966 GT350's, you may want to create a new topic just for that, so we don't disrupt the great flow of information going on here.
Steve
I suppose that you forget we have established that the start and stop had happened before . That was in late 65 and early 66 production. We have also established that at least it had started back up again by 67 production. It is reasonable to assume that a attempt was made ASAP given the cost saving incentive after the time frame of the film . That is the reason for my statement.
What was established is that a small handful of late 1965 & carryover GT350's received black painted intakes – which certainly means those were installed at Ford. No other 1965-66 GT350's have been proven to have received any of their Shelby components at Ford during the 1965-66 production run.
Either way, you caught me in the one time I forgot to mention the black painted intake cars in my post. Here's what I should have written.
"I've just not seen evidence that that actually occurred during the 1966 production run (with the exception of the small handful of carryover cars that received black painted intakes) - only evidence that it "might" have occurred, and even getting to that "might" requires a few assumptions.
I stand corrected.
But in your original post you stated, "It is hard to say when in 66 production Ford started back doing the conversion." That is why I responded to your post. Perhaps you meant the point in the 1966 calendar year that 1967 GT350's were being produced. But this is a topic about a 1966 film of 1966 GT350's in the 1966 GT350 section of the forum. So many, if not most, people will interpret your comment as applying to the production of 1966 GT350's.
My point was that it has not been established that at any point Ford installed any Shelby engine components on any 1966 GT350 (other than the few carryovers with black painted intakes.)
If you wish to state that in the production of the 1967 cars Ford did that I won't contest that. But please make the "1967 cars" part of that clear in your post. As you've taught me so well, context matters.
Steve
Guys can we take this discussion back to the other thread?
Not sure if its helpful for everyone else to have the same focus (when and if the engines were converted ........) in multiple threads/scattered all over the place. The film IMHO is not about when the engines were converted nor was the section focused on the assembly line done for just that reason. I started the thread in the hopes that the focus on just what we see in the film, just the "facts" or observations as presented in the film and that the "when" and "if" could stay where it was started. Guess I failed.
But if you want to - I don't make the rules and will stop posting any more of the film so that I don't take away from your new focus here.
Just my observation and choice. Honestly I grow tired of this.
Jeff, PLEASE don't stop what you started. This french film has stimulated the most interest that SAAC has seen in a while. This is GOOD STUFF! It helps take our minds off of the Corona virus and get us back to the stuff that we love.
For those that want to have a pissing contest, I think it should be relegated to PM's where feelings can be aired.
Please continue. I'm sure that I am not the only one who has learned from the film and the analysis of same.
Frank
Jeff,
I have to agree with Frank and others. SAI did not operate like FoMoCo and vice versa. THIS film is a window into what happened , not what has been established over the years form well meaning people who weren't there. SAI was a modification facility not a "production facility" aimed at pushing out 10 every hour . With all of the modifications 10 a day would be a stretch and is the obvious reason for "Autolite" shocks and under ride bars. The interior still had to come out for windows and scoops. Taking apart ten cars requires a fair amount of room and I think Bruce Junor said they usually had twenty "in process" on any given day.
Just my two cents worth of opinion.
Randy
Perhaps what is needed is a separate thread, not tied to the French film, specifically about whether Ford or SAI installed the engines in late 65-66 GT350's. The film is just one piece of compelling evidence but IMO the topic deserves it's own thread to discuss all the evidence.
Quote from: OldGuy on May 04, 2020, 03:30:18 PM
Jeff, PLEASE don't stop what you started. This french film has stimulated the most interest that SAAC has seen in a while. This is GOOD STUFF! It helps take our minds off of the Corona virus and get us back to the stuff that we love.
For those that want to have a pissing contest, I think it should be relegated to PM's where feelings can be aired.
Please continue. I'm sure that I am not the only one who has learned from the film and the analysis of same.
Frank
+1
Quote from: s2ms on May 03, 2020, 04:35:42 PM
There's a few frames at the 43-44 second mark that can narrow down the time period the film was taken, at least part of it, to March 1966, which puts the production firmly in underride territory.
This is just after Shelby drives through the guard booth in the 427 Cobra and parks next to the 66 GT350. The calendar in the guard booth is plainly visible, not quite good enough resolution to clearly see the details but you can see the 1st day of the month is a Tuesday and there are 31 days. The only 1966 calendar that matches that is March. The race shop footage at the 2:53 mark matches this as we see what appears to be P/1015 still mostly in it's Daytona configuration.
The assumption of course is that the sequences showing the calendar, 66 GT350 production, and race shop footage were all shot at about the same time. That seems likely IMO, it makes sense journalists coming from France would do it all in the same trip.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/236-030520161544.jpeg)
Thanks you very much !!!
i tryed by myself but was not able to find the right Month...
this is awesome detectiv work, Mr. Holmes :)
This photo clearly shows the thin spacer required on cars with Autolite carbs so the carb would seal to the Cobra intake. I always thought the spacer was a B9AZ part, but the ones I've seen are black, the spacer in the photo looks almost white?
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/236-120620001748.jpeg)
I wonder if it was white asbestos like the header gaskets?
One thing I overlooked at mentioning in the AL9-11 picture set was that the drivers side exterior mirror was not yet installed and none let in the next group of clips in the post that follows this one below.
Next section. In this very short clip we see a line of cars in the foreground and another line of cars (well at least one in the films view) behind. We see the rear most car being moved forward up tightly :o to the other in front of it. All cars int he shot are again very dark exterior colored cars.
AL12-
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-040520155210.jpeg)
AL13- Just some points I picked up on (sure I missed others) and wanted to share
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-040520155222.jpeg)
From top left corner - clockwise
White Arrow - After reviewing this and other pictures we have this appears to be one of the paint booths at the plant.
Blue Arrow - Shows the other line or at least another car in the line behind and between the line in the foreground and the booth area -line
Yellow Arrow - Card placed at the windshield with the cars Ford sequential number and the Shelby VIN (this observation is from other similar pieces of paper seen in the same location)
Red Arrow - A worker in his white coveralls
Light Green Arrow - one or two cardboard boxes often used to organize hardware - nuts, bolts, small brackets and the like. Could be used to hold extra bolts needed to install Monte Carlo bars or hardware from items removed from the cars. Who knows at this point 55 plus years later
Purple Arrow - Interior extractor cover panels removed and not yet modified for 66 GT350's, all shoved, kindly :) in a box. Not why they didn't get scratched allot given the handling.
Second Yellow Arrow - Not sure how that happened. :( Anyway a stack of cardboard boxes. Can't tell how wide each one is. Tall enough for oil pans?
AL14- Car gets moved up tightly behind the one on the left. Arrow points out that again the grill paint has not been removed nor the grill "running horse" emblem been installed at this point in the assembly line.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-040520155242.jpeg)
AL15- Nice and tight. To a point where it appears it would be difficult to move between the two cars
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-040520155302.jpeg)
AL16- Last clip of this set. Angle changes to a closer view of one car.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-040520161858.jpeg)
Yellow Arrow - Another view of the paper or heavy stock with the VIN's to help identify the car to workers
Orange Arrow - Wiper blades are still covered with clear plastic bags/protectors that would be removed before the car was sold/dealer prep
Red Arrow - Exterior rear quarter panel extractor grills and panel have been removed before this point in the conversion but the sheet metal has not yet been modified, it appears, for the quarter windows. On the interior area you can see sun light passing through the opening were on the drivers side its pretty dark to make out. Looking back we can also see the drivers side area better in AL12 and AL13
Blue Arrow - Ford assembly line stickers showing inspection. Like the wiper and seat covers these would be removed during dealer prep.
Purple Arrow - Again we see chrome Magnums like we have seen on all the cars where wheels are visible in this section of the film showing the inside's of the plant.
No copyright is claimed in [content copied] and to the extent that material may appear to be infringed, I assert that such alleged infringement is permissible under fair use principles in U.S. copyright laws. If you believe material has been used in an unauthorized manner, please contact the poster.
More to follow.
Quote from: s2ms on May 05, 2020, 10:12:56 PM
This photo clearly shows the thin spacer required on cars with Autolite carbs so the carb would seal to the Cobra intake. I always thought the spacer was a B9AZ part, but the ones I've seen are black, the spacer in the photo looks almost white?
Maybe one of a number of ones used/experimented with. Running change?
We already suspected by the dark shade in the B+W film that the cars were black and what with the automatic carb that these were Hertz. The chrome wheels pretty much confirms it when considered with the other clues.
No center caps yet installed on the Magnums?
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 05, 2020, 11:21:07 PM
We already suspected by the dark shade in the B+W film that the cars were black and what with the automatic carb that these were Hertz. The chrome wheels pretty much confirms it when considered with the other clues.
Given the number of dark cars being built with chrome Magnums I would agree. Of course we don't know if all the cars we're viewing are Autolite equipped cars we only get a look at the one.
Don't know how many green cars were built with chrome Magnums - Hertz and non-Hertz. Always hard to tell with grainy old B&W - guess they could be red but not many in that color also so Black is the best guess at this point.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on May 05, 2020, 11:22:33 PM
No center caps yet installed on the Magnums?
Hard to tell but maybe. They may be on the cars in the other line shown in AL-9 to AL-11. Again not the best angle or picture
Quote from: J_Speegle on May 05, 2020, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 05, 2020, 11:21:07 PM
We already suspected by the dark shade in the B+W film that the cars were black and what with the automatic carb that these were Hertz. The chrome wheels pretty much confirms it when considered with the other clues.
Given the number of dark cars being built with chrome Magnums I would agree. Of course we don't know if all the cars we're viewing are Autolite equipped cars we only get a look at the one.
Don't know how many green cars were built with chrome Magnums - Hertz and non-Hertz. Always hard to tell with grainy old B&W - guess they could be red but not many in that color also so Black is the best guess at this point.
I know you are playing devils advocate but Hertz cars were typically built with chrome rim wheels which is how they were specified and non Hertz cars were typically built with painted rim wheels and to a lessor degree tenspoke wheels . I suppose a non hertz car could have been given the chrome wheels by mistake or special order of some type . However what is more likely ? Dark/black ,automatic car with chrome rim wheels that only Hertz cars were supposed to get being a Hertz specified car or a regular Shelby with automatic and with Hertz wheels that got put on by mistake or by special order?
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 05, 2020, 11:51:52 PM
..........................However what is more likely ?
That is why I posted "Given the number of dark cars being built with chrome Magnums I would agree." The discussion does allow us to talk about the possibilities - so was exploring the possibilities
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 05, 2020, 11:51:52 PMDark/black ,automatic car with chrome rim wheels that only Hertz cars were supposed to get being a Hertz specified car or a regular Shelby with automatic and with Hertz wheels that got put on by mistake or by special order?
Never went through the registry to see how many non-Hertz received chrome Magnums. Would suspect that these were most likely automatic cars also built at Shelby with Hertz cars to make things easier rather than switching back and forth between manuals and automatic. The numbering of the cars ( Shelby sequential order) might support/suggest this also. Someone might possibly has already does a survey or research of that detail. Shouldn't be that many. Believe I know of at least one off hand
Also of interest is none of the cars have the wheel center caps. You would think they would be in place by then since the wheel had to be off to install them.
Any pictures that show or suggest that radio antennas were installed?
Quote from: hertz350 on May 08, 2020, 02:46:13 PM
Any pictures that show or suggest that radio antennas were installed?
Since all 66 GT350's didn't get ordered with radios there would be some with and some without. Given we believe that the group of cars the film covers were likely Hertz cars most of those had the radio installed and in turn the antenna but like the mirror that section of the line was not filmed or at least included in the final film as we see it. Many of the cars without factory radios had aftermarket radios installed by the first or a later owner or the new buyer had the dealership install one of their choosing
Next segment. At this point the film shows to workers installing the aluminum intake with Autolite 4100 installed. As a reminder this film is one great opportunity to see what SA was doing on this particular day. We have to look to other resources to determine (if we can) what may have taken place in the months prior or the ones after these films were taken.
Lots of details just choose some to point out. Some may seem basic and obvious for many of you but remember we have allot of viewers that might not have the as many years as some of us in the hobby and just want to learn so pointing our some of them as I go through the stills :)
I1- Prepared intake with carb, temperature sender, vacuum fittings and thermostat housing install and sitting ::) on a fender cover ready to be installed. You can clearly see that the thermostat housing is the painted one from the original cast iron intake with the factory masked off necks as done at the Ford engine plant.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-070520232949.jpeg)
I2- Distributor cap and spark plug wires removed the worker on the driver's side of the car tilts the intake so he can slip it under the distributor. In later pictures you can see that the rotor is set so its facing directly forward. On purpose for a purpose?
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-070520233024.jpeg)
I3-
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-070520233051.jpeg)
Red arrow - Heater hoses
Purple arrow - Another look at the painted housing and masked/bare hose necks
Dark Blue arrow - New light colored intake gasket
White arrow - Chrome valve covers still in place
Lavender arrow - Looks like the fuel line disconnected at the top end and pulled out of the way at this point
I4- Moving the intake into its resting point
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-070520233359.jpeg)
I5-
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-070520233423.jpeg)
Yellow arrow - Cardboard box with dist cap and wires (maybe more small items) sits on the cowl and propped up by the windshield
Orange arrow - A couple of shop rags placed under the box to protect the cowl paint
Lavender arrow - Machined surfaces contrast against the fresh cast look of the main body of the COBRA intake. Can't make out in the film where the FIRING ORDER is located on the intake : (
No copyright is claimed in [content copied] and to the extent that material may appear to be infringed, I assert that such alleged infringement is permissible under fair use principles in U.S. copyright laws. If you believe material has been used in an unauthorized manner, please contact the poster.
Intake installation continued
I6- Passenger side worker reaches in (puprle arrow) and possibly helps guide the radiator hose or bypass hose back on the thermostat
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-070520233511.jpeg)
I7-
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-070520233531.jpeg)
I8- A couple more details? to share
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-080520000426.jpeg)
Light Teal arrow- Could this be the brazed on radiator tag that we would expect to find on most of the 66 GT350's and that would also match the time period we believe these cars were built? Looks like it
Medium Blue arrow- Possibly the W-MO and date in the top tank
Light Blue arrow - Blank flat section where the radiator ID was stamped on earlier versions of the San Jose radiator.
I9- Passenger side grabs some intake manifold bolts and starts each one on his side of the intake.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-070520233549.jpeg)
I10- Just a couple of observations
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-070520233606.jpeg)
Orange arrow - Appears to be the wire style of radiator hose clamps on the upper hose. As we would expect of we have the correct 1966 month
Green arrow - Engine feed wire loom ID label/tag
I11-
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-070520233624.jpeg)
I12- Driver side worker is back with a handful of intake manifold bolts to start on his side of the intake
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-070520233642.jpeg)
Green arrow- Air cleaner stub appears to have never been removed from the Autolite carb during the swap
Yellow arrow- Couple of intake manifold bolts
No copyright is claimed in [content copied] and to the extent that material may appear to be infringed, I assert that such alleged infringement is permissible under fair use principles in U.S. copyright laws. If you believe material has been used in an unauthorized manner, please contact the poster.
One last section to follow
That means the memo Bob has about the Cleveland Engine Plant "dressing" the engines prior to shipment to San Jose was recinded before this and SAI returned to doing the conversions. This matches the statement from Bert Brown who worked in "the pit" doing header and oil pan changes. Bert stayed with Shelby until Shelby Racing Co closed.
Randy
Almost forgot to add the very short clip showing the work bench.
To complete the 66 Shelby assembly line section of the film we have a very short section showing a new intake on a work bench, a 4100 Autolite in the back ground and a worker installing the fittings on the new intake.
In the clip the worker is installing the vacuum line to the rear intake brass fitting and tightening it. Int he picture you can see that the heater hose nipple is already installed. In this picture it appears to be a new one rather than one swapped from the original cast iron intake. If it was we would see the bare section where the nipple would have been masked off and have no paint on it in contrast to the rest of the painted body. Also the finish of the intake shows the freshly machined surfaces from another angle not seen in the earlier pictures were the areas around the bolt holes were visible and in these pictures the carb mounting surface and the COBRA stand out in contrast to the cast surface of the intake.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-140520162631.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-140520162644.jpeg)
No copyright is claimed in [content copied] and to the extent that material may appear to be infringed, I assert that such alleged infringement is permissible under fair use principles in U.S. copyright laws. If you believe material has been used in an unauthorized manner, please contact the poster.
I wanted to add for those reading who may not be aware that given the carburetor and the vacuum port being installed the intake is intended for a automatic car. A four speed car would have the second vacuum port plugged and a Holley carburetor.
Quote from: J_Speegle on April 24, 2020, 05:46:23 PM
Parking Lot 2
PL2- Appears (due to color and stripe) to be a group of white Hertz 66 GT350
In this picture you can see the identification cards in the front windshield and the outline of the tach.
If your wondering. At this side of the parking lot there was a sound wall between this area and the runways on the other side.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-210420205552.jpeg)
I think we can use this batch of white Hertz cars to further pinpoint the filming date...
I count 23 white cars as the film pans this section. According to the 2011 Registry, pg. 757, there was only one batch of white Hertz cars that large. 35 cars are listed spanning (non-sequential) SAI VINs 6S1204 - 6S1253, all shipped between March 7 - March 16. Based on the shipping dates listed I believe the film date is most likely March 10 or March 11.
Hey Dave ( S2MS ) what did we start with this film clip ?... :o
Quote from: s2ms on June 08, 2020, 06:04:48 PM
I think we can use this batch of white Hertz cars to further pinpoint the filming date...
I count 23 white cars as the film pans this section. According to the 2011 Registry, pg. 757, there was only one batch of white Hertz cars that large. 35 cars are listed spanning (non-sequential) SAI VINs 6S1204 - 6S1253, all shipped between March 7 - March 16. Based on the shipping dates listed I believe the film date is most likely March 10 or March 11.
Might be off by a few days. Of course (at this moment) we don't know which of the 35 cars in that order (from San Jose) were in that holding/parking area when the film was made. Guess you have already done a color break down to see if the number of white cars is near or close to your 23 count.
Didn't go through all the cars (have some other studies on my plate right this moment) but see a fair number of cars in a quick scan were already shipped out by March 10th
If allot of the cars represent this group of cars plus a few from earlier San Jose orders looks to be first of March IMHO at this point
Great to have a discussion :)
Quote from: Wedgeman on June 08, 2020, 06:35:04 PM
Hey Dave ( S2MS ) what did we start with this film clip ?... :o
Yes sir, fun stuff! YOU get credit for starting it with your FB post... 8)
Quote from: J_Speegle on June 08, 2020, 06:41:11 PM
Might be off by a few days. Of course (at this moment) we don't know which of the 35 cars in that order (from San Jose) were in that holding/parking area when the film was made. Guess you have already done a color break down to see if the number of white cars is near or close to your 23 count.
Didn't go through all the cars (have some other studies on my plate right this moment) but see a fair number of cars in a quick scan were already shipped out by March 10th
If allot of the cars represent this group of cars plus a few from earlier San Jose orders looks to be first of March IMHO at this point
Great to have a discussion :)
Yes, hoping to get the discussion going again!
Certainly some assumptions here, I'm just going on the Registry info showing the listed 35 white Hertz cars being shipped in March and the film apparently shows 23 of them. No other production block of white Hertz cars is even close to that and outside of those 35, none were shipped in March. The last white Hertz shipped before March was shipped in January. This batch in March was the last batch of white Hertz cars produced.
The cars were shipped on 5 separate days:
March 7th - 1 car
March 8th - 9 cars
March 10th - 3 cars
March 11th - 10 cars
March 16th - 12 cars
Just looking at and juggling those numbers, March 10 or 11 makes the most sense IMO to have 23 cars in the lot.
Quote from: s2ms on June 08, 2020, 09:41:34 PM
The cars were shipped (out - my addition) on 5 separate days:
March 7th - 1 car
March 8th - 9 cars
March 10th - 3 cars
March 11th - 10 cars
March 16th - 12 cars
Just looking at and juggling those numbers, March 10 or 11 makes the most sense IMO to have 23 cars in the lot.
Thanks - see how you reached the dates you did.
If the date were March 6th for example and the first four of those groups were finished and parked in the lot waiting to be shipped out (last group not built yet) Your total would be exactly 23. Where your groups would equal 25 or 22.
Quote from: J_Speegle on June 08, 2020, 11:07:05 PM
Thanks - see how you reached the dates you did.
If the date were March 6th for example and the first four of those groups were finished and parked in the lot waiting to be shipped out (last group not built yet) Your total would be exactly 23. Where your groups would equal 25 or 22.
Yeah, I was looking at a rough average chance of 23 cars being on the lot at the same time compared with the listed shipping dates. Your scenario makes perfect sense too.
Looking at the Registry individual car details brings up another variable. All these cars had radios installed by Hi-Performance Motors anywhere from 2-11 days before being shipped out. Were they shipped or driven to HP motors for the install? Regardless looks like there was a fair amount of activity on the lot at any given time making it harder to narrow down a specific date than I originally thought.
Quote from: s2ms on June 08, 2020, 11:59:29 PM
Looking at the Registry individual car details brings up another variable. All these cars had radios installed by Hi-Performance Motors anywhere from 2-11 days before being shipped out. Were they shipped or driven to HP motors for the install? Regardless looks like there was a fair amount of activity on the lot at any given time making it harder to narrow down a specific date than I originally thought.
I'm going to take a shot at this and say that the HP Motors installations were done by a crew that physically did the work on site at LAX. Make more sense to me than to drive or ship the cars somewhere else.
Not to say ( we just don't know at this time) your not correct but allot of things "make sense" looking back though they might have not at the time for other reasons we don't know. In this case did the boss's at HP want to send guys over to Shelby every day? For where they sat maybe that didn't make sense. For some of the cars HP might have just been a shop along the way to where they were being sent and they may have even been able to install the radios while the cars were on the transport.
So many questions that will likely never be answered :)
But it is fun to speculate, Jeff. Thanks for posting this.
By the way, is there any way to identify which intake variation is being installed here?
Quote from: S7MS427 on June 10, 2020, 09:25:39 PM
But it is fun to speculate, Jeff. Thanks for posting this.
By the way, is there any way to identify which intake variation is being installed here?
Squinted and adjusted the poor resolution clip we had and could not make out any/or if there was any raised printing on the front runner to suggest which intake was in the close up shot. But did think of that and tried. Good thought
Quote from: S7MS427 on June 10, 2020, 09:25:39 PM
But it is fun to speculate, Jeff. Thanks for posting this.
By the way, is there any way to identify which intake variation is being installed here?
In #14 and #15 I can see the notch for dist clearance. That gives a pretty good idea which intake given the squared off Cobra version is earlier. Also the earlier picture showed the additional vacuum port on the intake and tube for automatic modulator .
Quote from: Bob Gaines on June 10, 2020, 10:47:40 PM
In #14 and #15 I can see the notch for dist clearance. That gives a pretty good idea which intake given the squared off Cobra version is earlier. Also the earlier picture showed the additional vacuum port on the intake and tube for automatic modulator .
+1, the notched Cobra matches what we have seen for this production period. No way to tell if the front runner has the firing order as Jeff mentioned since the installer's hand is perfectly in the way, guess he was thinking someone would be interested in this stuff 50+ years later.
IMO all the intake shots from I1-I12 show a silver style fuel filter as opposed to the bronze-gold style. Not enough resolution to tell if it has an Autolite or Rotunda logo, or perhaps the markings were rotated and not visible to the camera.
I was able to find a better (best?) resolution version of the film owned by a media archiving institute in Paris. Even though the resolution is much better, there isn't enough IMO to give much more useful detail. Plus it would require licensing the film, or sections of it, to share on here, which would be rather expensive.
Per the license agreement I'm allowed to post just one still frame, chose this one as it shows this car does have shock tower washers. I've been keeping track of the 66's without washers for over 20 years and was actually hoping to see evidence of washerless cars at SAI. But this actually makes sense, based on the time frame the film was taken, these cars are most likely in the 1200's to possibly early 1300's and from my records the washerless cars don't start showing up until the late 1400's.
This frame also shows the carb spacer discussed in another thread...
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/236-080720112636.jpeg)
Quote from: s2ms on June 11, 2020, 12:33:05 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on June 10, 2020, 10:47:40 PM
In #14 and #15 I can see the notch for dist clearance. That gives a pretty good idea which intake given the squared off Cobra version is earlier. Also the earlier picture showed the additional vacuum port on the intake and tube for automatic modulator .
+1, the notched Cobra matches what we have seen for this production period. No way to tell if the front runner has the firing order as Jeff mentioned since the installer's hand is perfectly in the way, guess he was thinking someone would be interested in this stuff 50+ years later.
IMO all the intake shots from I1-I12 show a silver style fuel filter as opposed to the bronze-gold style. Not enough resolution to tell if it has an Autolite or Rotunda logo, or perhaps the markings were rotated and not visible to the camera.
Dave,
I have Rotunda and Autolite logo ( red ink) silver body fuel filters. the gold ones are Motorcraft. ( that I have anyway)
Randy
For the moment I'm not focusing on what was the original finish of the fuel filter was for mid year 66's just how problematic using B&W pictures are in determining original finishes.
IMHO I don't believe you could determine the difference between a zinc plated fuel filter and one that had a slight gold die on the surface in a black and white picture, especially without the same finishes confirmed in the same picture of both the finishes to compare to. One of the challenges of black and white.
To help demonstrate - I can't tell from just the picture below which one or more are plated which color or if they were all the same, though I know what each are and the resolution is much much better than the French clip I believe. Just offering for discussion
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/6-080720144545.jpeg)
Quote from: s2ms on July 08, 2020, 11:34:04 AM
I was able to find a better (best?) resolution version of the film owned by a media archiving institute in Paris. Even though the resolution is much better, there isn't enough IMO to give much more useful detail. Plus it would require licensing the film, or sections of it, to share on here, which would be rather expensive.
Per the license agreement I'm allowed to post just one still frame, chose this one as it shows this car does have shock tower washers. I've been keeping track of the 66's without washers for over 20 years and was actually hoping to see evidence of washerless cars at SAI. But this actually makes sense, based on the time frame the film was taken, these cars are most likely in the 1200's to possibly early 1300's and from my records the washerless cars don't start showing up until the late 1400's.
This frame also shows the carb spacer discussed in another thread...
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/236-080720112636.jpeg)
Quote from: s2ms on July 08, 2020, 11:34:04 AM
I was able to find a better (best?) resolution version of the film owned by a media archiving institute in Paris. Even though the resolution is much better, there isn't enough IMO to give much more useful detail. Plus it would require licensing the film, or sections of it, to share on here, which would be rather expensive.
Thanks for taking the effort to both chase down the current owners and explore the possibilities
This is a fantastic testament as to how this group (at least) was built. The amount of dis assembly and work done shows exactly why cost cutting measures were employed and production was so slow. Thanks to all who have contributed.
Randy
Quote from: J_Speegle on July 08, 2020, 04:30:27 PM
Thanks for taking the effort to both chase down the current owners and explore the possibilities
My pleasure Jeff, this whole topic has not only been interesting and educational but also fun!
Quote from: J_Speegle on July 08, 2020, 02:47:20 PM
For the moment I'm not focusing on what was the original finish of the fuel filter was for mid year 66's just how problematic using B&W pictures are in determining original finishes.
IMHO I don't believe you could determine the difference between a zinc plated fuel filter and one that had a slight gold die on the surface in a black and white picture, especially without the same finishes confirmed in the same picture of both the finishes to compare to. One of the challenges of black and white.
To help demonstrate - I can't tell from just the picture below which one or more are plated which color or if they were all the same, though I know what each are and the resolution is much much better than the French clip I believe. Just offering for discussion
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/6-080720144545.jpeg)
It would not be easy but I'm going to disagree, a little. The filter nut is silver on both the zinc plated filter and the goldish hue filter making it a valuable reference IMO. The filter in the film sequence goes through many different camera angles as the intake is lowered into place, I believe we would see a slight difference in the body shade compared to the nut somewhere in that sequence if it was the gold filter, and I just do not see that in this case.
I was really hoping the high res film version would show more detail, especially the filter logo, but nope...
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/236-080720195008.jpeg)
+1. the zinc dichromate typically shows up as the darker shade. Admittedly it would be slight in a BW photo but the nut is a good reference .
Quote from: s2ms on July 08, 2020, 08:17:46 PM
It would not be easy but I'm going to disagree, a little. The filter nut is silver on both the zinc plated filter and the goldish hue filter making it a valuable reference IMO.
Well not on all of the examples I posted plus yours were posted and converted at a higher resolution.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point ;)
Quote from: J_Speegle on July 08, 2020, 10:19:37 PM
Well not on all of the examples I posted plus yours were posted and converted at a higher resolution.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point ;)
Fair enough on both points. I was referring only to the OE style with the thicker nut we see in the film and period car mag test articles.
Anyway, no need to even "agree to disagree" at this point, just need more discussion, and most importantly, more examples!
Thanks from me too Dave! I had never seen the "gold" Autolite version you have shown. That is great to see. I agree we aren't arguing , just "discovering" . No other entity goes to the extremes we do here. Again ALL due to the super sleuths HERE that "give a damn" about originality.
Randy
If you need the translation of some parts of the movie (maybe not the whole movie, too much work ^^), I can do my best :)
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 02, 2020, 01:25:57 AM
Quote from: SFM6S087 on May 02, 2020, 12:49:19 AM
Quote from: OldGuy on May 01, 2020, 08:25:17 PM
Quote from: J_Speegle on May 01, 2020, 05:38:40 PM
Quote from: gt350hr on May 01, 2020, 11:25:13 AM
Jeff,
The pictures on dollies and stacks of indistinguishable parts along side could be because this group had "over ride" traction bars which obviously would require interior removal. Your thoughts?
Randy
Not sure where your came up with the group being cars with the over-rides. I must have missed something. Nothing I've seen so far would determine when the film or individual shots were taken only when they couldn't ;) Items "in front" (from the camera mans view) of the bins are sway bars.
The intake ( to be shown in the later sections of the film not yet posted) was being installed on dark colored (non- white) car. Can't make out a filler tube ( if there) for the automatic but "IF" the that part of the film was taken around the same time of day the other sections were taken, of the line - those cars had chrome magnums which ( as you know) were most often seen on Hertz cars though other non-Hertz cars received them also.
Later in the film there is welding going on under one of the cars at the rear suggesting, possibly, that the worker was welding the forward under ride attachment point to the frame rail
Randy's theory (regarding overriders) could be correct. According to the Registry, the installation of Autolite carbs began with serial #6S801 which had overriders, Koni's, Mico, etc. I also believe that the healthy amount of sparks/slag that is coming from the passenger side-rear are from a cutting torch (one of their favorite precision tools) being used to remove the factory outer rear end bump-stop brackets from the frame.
.........to be continued, I'm sure.
Frank
I believe the last car known to receive over-rides was 6S919 and the first car known to have under-rides was 6S923. If the Autolites started with 6S801 then it looks like these cars should be in the range between 6S801 and 6S919 (or possibly 6S922).
Steve
Steve,you could narrow that down if the car can be confirmed to have overrides. I don't think that has been established yet.It is still a "could be"possibility however.
I use to own 6s922 and looking back at some of the picture I am sure it had Under-rides