I am doing a tune-up on a '67 GT500 with the stock dual point distributor and looking for recommendations on Ignition Points, Condenser and Rotor with emphasis on reliability vs. concourse correct as the car is driven regularly. It would be nice to pick up locally at a NAPA or other parts store but ordering for delivery works also. Thanks for any suggestions you have had good results with. (I don't want to go the Pertronix route at this time).
Jeff
Using Partsvoice.com I find 5 dealers who have the C9AZ-12171-A points in stock. The Motorcraft number is DP5.
Look here:
https://www.partsvoice.com/partsearch (https://www.partsvoice.com/partsearch)
The condenser is a very common DC6. Green Sales has 130 in stock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exy53cCIGjI&feature=emb_title (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exy53cCIGjI&feature=emb_title)
Quote from: JWH on May 11, 2020, 11:26:16 PM
I am doing a tune-up on a '67 GT500 with the stock dual point distributor and looking for recommendations on Ignition Points, Condenser and Rotor with emphasis on reliability vs. concourse correct as the car is driven regularly. It would be nice to pick up locally at a NAPA or other parts store but ordering for delivery works also. Thanks for any suggestions you have had good results with. (I don't want to go the Pertronix route at this time).
Jeff
Napa sells Echlin ignition parts. Good quality replacement parts. Avoid Autozone/Advance Chinese crap.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on May 12, 2020, 10:12:27 AM
Using Partsvoice.com I find 5 dealers who have the C9AZ-12171-A points in stock. The Motorcraft number is DP5.
The Autolite / Motorcraft number for High Performance dual point applications is DP6. The DP5 is for a six cylinder, although it will physically interchange.
Quote from: Bill Collins on May 12, 2020, 10:59:45 AM
The Autolite / Motorcraft number for High Performance dual point applications is DP6. The DP5 is for a six cylinder, although it will physically interchange.
+1 on NAPA parts, excellent quality, used them for years. Cap looks very similar to OE.
- Cap: FA-79
- Points: CS-756
- Rotor: FA-157
The Autolite/Motorcraft DP5 are actually for dual point w/ vacuum advance like Boss 302 and 429, will fit and work but have slightly lower spring tension than DP6. The 6-cylinder points are DP3 and are a reversed orientation to DP6 and DP5 so I don't believe they will fit, avoid those.
Personally I like OEM parts or Mallory or Accel.
Original ones on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-points-for-distributor-1963-67-Ford-Galaxie-1966-67-Fairlane-NOS/324094141791?epid=1527907238&hash=item4b7584255f:g:HW0AAOSwNaxeYS8c (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-points-for-distributor-1963-67-Ford-Galaxie-1966-67-Fairlane-NOS/324094141791?epid=1527907238&hash=item4b7584255f:g:HW0AAOSwNaxeYS8c)
What to buy, Petronix. (period)
Imagine a time, adventure, a SAAC event, a trip, a 500 mile trip, a destination that you will never make. You have put into danger, you, possibly another person, you broke down on a long twisty road with no cell service. What happened? Your points are shot, something went wrong with the condenser.....WHAT THE H E DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS DO YOU DO NOW?????????????????
Welcome to the "Break down on the way to an event zone" where your fun trip just went into a spin, and I am not talking on some track....
In the years before cell phones and Pertronics I would have got out my screwdriver from my tool box, pulled the distributor cap, and adjusted the points by eye. Today, same thing.
Quote from: 67 GT350 on May 12, 2020, 12:54:46 PM
What to buy, Petronix. (period)
Imagine a time, adventure, a SAAC event, a trip, a 500 mile trip, a destination that you will never make. You have put into danger, you, possibly another person, you broke down on a long twisty road with no cell service. What happened? Your points are shot, something went wrong with the condenser.....WHAT THE H E DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS DO YOU DO NOW?????????????????
Welcome to the "Break down on the way to an event zone" where your fun trip just went into a spin, and I am not talking on some track....
Quote from: Royce Peterson on May 12, 2020, 12:56:55 PM
In the years before cell phones and Pertronics I would have got out my screwdriver from my tool box, pulled the distributor cap, and adjusted the points by eye. Today, same thing.
Quote from: 67 GT350 on May 12, 2020, 12:54:46 PM
What to buy, Petronix. (period)
Imagine a time, adventure, a SAAC event, a trip, a 500 mile trip, a destination that you will never make. You have put into danger, you, possibly another person, you broke down on a long twisty road with no cell service. What happened? Your points are shot, something went wrong with the condenser.....WHAT THE H E DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS DO YOU DO NOW?????????????????
Me too, but what if? I would put Petronix in everything today, this is 2020?
Welcome to the "Break down on the way to an event zone" where your fun trip just went into a spin, and I am not talking on some track....
Pertronics fail too. At least with points you have a chance of fixing it. ;)
I never had one fail, (Petronix), but I have had to fix points/replace condenser on the road a few times, I guess when I hit my 40's I thought, I love my life and if the odds are less or having something go wrong, I prefer that....LOL
Quote from: KR Convertible on May 12, 2020, 01:45:47 PM
Pertronics fail too. At least with points you have a chance of fixing it. ;)
+1. Many enthusiast's have a point plate with the points set up to keep in the glove box just in case the PerTronix fail . I don't know how many time I have heard stories of them failing. Most of time is because they are not installed correctly IMHO. It is arguable which is more reliable given the millions of cars that used points with no notable problems.I think the PerTronix is a good product which has its positive and negative aspects but it definitely has a place in the car world.
JWH,
If you insist on NOS , I can supply them. PM if you are interested , quantities are VERY limited.
I went with the Echlin parts from NAPA today. I am posting part #s in the event someone does a search....like me....next time I tune up. Thanks to S2MS and all who PM'd me and provided suggestions and part numbers. The car starts with the bump of a key and runs very strong.
NAPA Part #s For Dual Point Distributor Tune-Up
Distributor Cap ECH FA79
Points (Contact Set) ECH CS756
Condenser ECH FA66
Rotor ECH FA157
Just an additional source, when I worked in a garage wayyyyy back, we uses Standard Ignition parts. They had a regular line and a Blue Streak line that were supposed to be better quality. I remember them being quality stuff, heavy duty, lasted. Don't ask me for the part number. I gave all the stuff I still had to Bill Collins.
But, I also became a convert to under-cap conversions, as I then gave me the chance to upgrade the rest of the ignition om my 428 SCJ. We all know those engines love a healthy spark to really run good. I doubt there is one person here who absolutely LOVES changing spark plugs on a 428 Mustang. The system I put together looked completely stock, fooled many, but was a high-power system, never killed a plug again, started better, ran better. I used a MSD Blaster coil, painted it black, put on Ford decal. Solid black Jacobs 8mm wires, used stock boots. Under-cap conversion, and encased the two wires in black shrink wrap, and split them out under the air cleaner. I even went further to get a standard single-point distributor, remove the vac advance, so the conversion module was in the correct place. From the outside to the non-trained eye, looked correct. Never had to pull a @#&^)*&#^)&#$#@(^#^ Spark plug again.
Just an additional opinion.
(PS - I did carry a spare set of points and condenser just in case.......)
I use pertronix on my cars and have no problems. They start and run better all temps and the plugs, (BF 32s) are a perfect light tan color. My SUN 1115 is now a nostalgic / parts and wax cabinet.
I bought the correct early rubbing block points and the seller packaged them in a soft mailer. Naturally, one of them got bent in delivery.
Why would anyone package something as sensitive as points this way?
He offered to give me money back but finding these was tough so I kept them.
That's the last 'failure' I had with points ...
Pertronix and put the parts you took off in the glovebox for when it fails. I've had 2 pertronix fail. One in a Mustang the other in my Blazer. The one in my Stude has been in there for years with no problem. They can make some tachs not work right.
We've had this discussion now how many times with the wives tales about Pertronix? 16 years on a Pertonix II speaks for itself. Wire them with a 12V constant there is no issue. Even the Pertronix I. Use their coil. You want an early failure? Ignore sound advice.
You may be able to kind of eye the point gaps, but you sure the hell can't set the dwell. Do yourself a favor if you drive the car and dump the points.
It's a no-brainer.
Points are a wearing item and the performance of the car falls off gradually . On my cars it just became a unnecessary hassle. I suppose some levels of concours require them but I dont enter those. Electronics and tire technology have evolved probably the most since the 60s.
Quote from: trotrof1 on May 17, 2020, 06:54:26 PM
Points are a wearing item and the performance of the car falls off gradually . On my cars it just became a unnecessary hassle. I suppose some levels of concours require them but I dont enter those. Electronics and tire technology have evolved probably the most since the 60s.
No judge is supposed to touch the car in concours without the owners permission. Taking off a distributor cap would be extremely irregular in most cases even with the owners permission. The requirement in concours is that it looks the part. If it pass's the look test then there is no reason to question it. The extra wire of a pertronix and the different location for that extra wire on the coil however is a very obvious tell. It is all about choices. You can choose the non original pertronix or the original points . What ever makes the best sense for each individual owners situation.
The Ford dual point distributor is a very reliable unit that was good enough for SAI to go racing with, good enough for me.
Wives tales aside, I had a Pertronix I fail and leave me on the side of the road, correctly wired, 12V, although I admit was not using their coil. In my experience, points do not fail. Start to wear and degrade performance, sure, but properly maintained and adjusted dual points just aren't that hard to do, check mine maybe twice/year and always dead on, throw in a new set every 5 years or so. The day I can't adjust a set of dual points is the day to move on...
Quote from: s2ms on May 17, 2020, 11:00:47 PM
The Ford dual point distributor is a very reliable unit that was good enough for SAI to go racing with, good enough for me.
Wives tales aside, I had a Pertronix I fail and leave me on the side of the road, correctly wired, 12V, although I admit was not using their coil. In my experience, points do not fail. Start to wear and degrade performance, sure, but properly maintained and adjusted dual points just aren't that hard to do, check mine maybe twice/year and always dead on, throw in a new set every 5 years or so. The day I can't adjust a set of dual points is the day to move on...
Yeah, yeah. Same ol' crap. It worked in the 60's. Points do not last as long nor do they put out the spark of the electronic ignition. Pertronix rarely fail.
They are not prone to failure unless you run them on 6-9v . Leave your ignition switch on some time for a couple hours because you get a phone call or are working on a car with points. They're done. You also have to set dwell every time you change them. They also require regular maintenance.
SAI used what was available in the day, it doesn't make it better and it sure the hell isn't more reliable. Fact, not opinion.The hotter spark also helps keeps plugs cleaner with rich running engines and oil from the plugs, not to mention detonation. Because you're stuck in the 60's with old technology that was used doesn't justify not making common sense changes that are all but undetectable. I'm in my mid-50's. I've been working on cars since I was 14, not to mention radial and V design aircraft engines. Not one of us are suggesting an LS or a Coyote engine change. If you have a dust collector trailer queen, by all means why bother? If you use your car, it's not stock and drive it hard make the change. It's worth it.
If you drive your car, which I do at least twice a week it makes zero sense to stay with points.
Quote from: The Going Thing on May 18, 2020, 12:00:17 AM
Quote from: s2ms on May 17, 2020, 11:00:47 PM
The Ford dual point distributor is a very reliable unit that was good enough for SAI to go racing with, good enough for me.
Wives tales aside, I had a Pertronix I fail and leave me on the side of the road, correctly wired, 12V, although I admit was not using their coil. In my experience, points do not fail. Start to wear and degrade performance, sure, but properly maintained and adjusted dual points just aren't that hard to do, check mine maybe twice/year and always dead on, throw in a new set every 5 years or so. The day I can't adjust a set of dual points is the day to move on...
Yeah, yeah. Same ol' crap. It worked in the 60's. Points do not last as long nor do they put out the spark of the electronic ignition. Pertronix rarely fail.
They are not prone to failure unless you run them on 6-9v . Leave your ignition switch on some time for a couple hours because you get a phone call or are working on a car with points. They're done. You also have to set dwell every time you change them. They also require regular maintenance.
SAI used what was available in the day, it doesn't make it better and it sure the hell isn't more reliable. Fact, not opinion.The hotter spark also helps keeps plugs cleaner with rich running engines and oil from the plugs, not to mention detonation. Because you're stuck in the 60's with old technology that was used doesn't justify not making common sense changes that are all but undetectable. I'm in my mid-50's. I've been working on cars since I was 14, not to mention radial and V design aircraft engines. Not one of us are suggesting an LS or a Coyote engine change. If you have a dust collector trailer queen, by all means why bother? If you use your car, it's not stock and drive it hard make the change. It's worth it.
If you drive your car, which I do at least twice a week it makes zero sense to stay with points.
+1. I agree here about points vs. electronics.
The most reliable electronics ignition to use would be the Motorcraft. That requires a separate external box.
The most concealable is the Petronix. The trigger itself is very reliable. The coil? It leaves a lot to be desired.
It's not unusual for the coils to be intermittent and diagnosing an intermittent coil is one heck of a bitch.
In their day points were reasonably reliable. The "correct" points for use in a Ford dual point have a lot of tension. Considerably more then the single point set.
This really contributes to rapid wear against the distributor cam.
Now you may not necessarily experience problems as a result BUT if after you spend probably several hours getting the dwell right on a pair of points, run them a few thousand miles and then just for the heck of it, check the dwell again.
I'll bet you credits to Navy beans that you lost about ten degrees of dwell?
That combined with a 9v yellow top Ford coil, which incidentally has it's own POOR reputation for going intermittent, you loose a lot of ignition power.
I went through this the first time I set up 48ida Webers on a 351c. To say that the learning curve was steep, is a gross understatement.
The fact of the matter was that the stock Ford ignition was not even marginal for handling the induction change.
That brought in MSD. Then three consecutive 6A MSD (might suddenly fail) brains, about the same amount of MSD coil failures.
SA raced the Ford set up with a considerable mechanical support both by it's own highly experienced (and cranky) mechanics and pallets of Ford supplied race support parts.
Don't forget either that there were other ignition systems tried by SA and even Ford. They knew the ignition was problematic but the technology of the day was limited.
There is a guy that calls himself Pantera-Electronics. Jon Haas. He has designed a completely unique ignition that eliminates the points and fires and cleans up fouled spark plugs. That was what was needed back in the day but was an "unobtainium" commodity.
Here's the thing, an MSD system WILL NOT FIRE A FOULED PLUG OR CLEAN IT UP. The P-E ignition will. Maybe there are other systems that will, but the P-E is the only one that I know of that will.
Run whatever ignition system you so choose, but there is much experience here on this forum and sharing it free of charge for you.
Wisdom is required to recognize the correct answer.
As far as I go, I've graduated from dumbass to smartass. I'm working up to wiseass. ;)
There aren't a lot of people driving their cars every day so the points do well if they are installed and adjusted properly. I have had the pertronix and they do fail, the coils are also not very good IMO.
If you are using your car as a daily driver I would go full tilt, change it to fuel injection, MSD distributor etc... you would be better off and it is all reversible.
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 18, 2020, 09:29:20 AM
Run whatever ignition system you so choose, but there is much experience here on this forum and sharing it free of charge for you.
Wisdom is required to recognize the correct answer.
As far as I go, I've graduated from dumbass to smartass. I'm working up to wiseass. ;)
Well one thing is for sure ,you are at the top of your class. ;) ;D love ya man
Agreed, much information here.
One other method not mentioned yet, is to use the points as a trigger for a hidden Ignition box. That way, you have the points, but they will last now just carrying a very minute electrical current. It's the high current that burns up the points. And by adding a bigger coil, more draw.
Yes, the MSD boxes have a terrible reputation, justly earned. I run a Crane HI-6 box, been great. For years, I ran a Mallory Unilite conversion, and then distributor. Very accurate timing, but now no longer made.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 18, 2020, 11:38:21 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 18, 2020, 09:29:20 AM
Run whatever ignition system you so choose, but there is much experience here on this forum and sharing it free of charge for you.
Wisdom is required to recognize the correct answer.
As far as I go, I've graduated from dumbass to smartass. I'm working up to wiseass. ;)
Well one thing is for sure ,you are at the top of your class. ;) ;D love ya man
:o
You are a wise man Professor Gaines. Much of it gained from pain, no doubt. Some though you can't spare them the pain. They need to feel it themselves.
Those with too much happiness need to feel pain so they know they are alive.
Who am I to deny that? ;D
Quote from: The Going Thing on May 17, 2020, 06:26:19 PM
We've had this discussion now how many times with the wives tales about Pertronix? 16 years on a Pertonix II speaks for itself. Wire them with a 12V constant there is no issue. Even the Pertronix I. Use their coil. You want an early failure? Ignore sound advice.
You may be able to kind of eye the point gaps, but you sure the hell can't set the dwell. Do yourself a favor if you drive the car and dump the points.
It's a no-brainer.
Yup what he said what I said. +1 as they say.
Have my shop installing Petronix & some other stuff currently ,there telling me the tach likeS 6v but the Petronics likes 12v I though I saw a thread about this ,what's the answer can you keep tach working correctly & go 12v still thanks
Quote from: 68krrrr on May 19, 2020, 11:44:20 AM
Have my shop installing Petronix & some other stuff currently ,there telling me the tach likeS 6v but the Petronics likes 12v I though I saw a thread about this ,what's the answer can you keep tach working correctly & go 12v still thanks
I think the key is to power the pertonix from the ignition switch before the tach.
OK thanks Bob I'll let them know that
Quote from: 68krrrr on May 19, 2020, 11:44:20 AM
Have my shop installing Petronix & some other stuff currently ,there telling me the tach likeS 6v but the Petronics likes 12v I though I saw a thread about this ,what's the answer can you keep tach working correctly & go 12v still thanks
The factory tach is 12v. It reads the current.
With the yellow top coil, the resistance wire that ran from the tach to the coil reduced that to 9v at the + terminal on the coil. You no longer use that with the Petonix.
You need to run a new 14 gauge wire from the tach to the plus terminal on the coil.
The Petronix unit has two wires. One red that goes to the + on the coil. The black goes to the - terminal of the coil.
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 19, 2020, 01:43:50 PM
Quote from: 68krrrr on May 19, 2020, 11:44:20 AM
Have my shop installing Petronix & some other stuff currently ,there telling me the tach likeS 6v but the Petronics likes 12v I though I saw a thread about this ,what's the answer can you keep tach working correctly & go 12v still thanks
The factory tach is 12v. It reads the current.
With the yellow top coil, the resistance wire that ran from the tach to the coil reduced that to 9v at the + terminal on the coil. You no longer use that with the Petonix.
You need to run a new 14 gauge wire from the tach to the plus terminal on the coil.
The Petronix unit has two wires. One red that goes to the + on the coil. The black goes to the - terminal of the coil.
Ok thanks i copied this & sent it to the tech
Quote from: 68krrrr on May 19, 2020, 01:24:07 PM
OK thanks Bob I'll let them know that
If you want to know how to do it without modification to the harness PM me. I know how to do them without them effecting the tach read. If not, take your chances. I do all my own work, I don't farm it out to shops other than paint. If you screw it up the tach will not read correctly and will damage it, no matter what anyone else tells you here on the 67-8 cars.