Needed some aspirin. Couldn't get any because people overcome with grief broke into the store to get relief for all their personal grief and STOLE it. Then because of their unsatisfied GRIEF they BURNED the building down. Man those people show have allot of grief. Some of those who STOLE got even more grief when the poleice stopped them after an hour long high speed chase. So much grief they run to get back home to grieve. Now they have grief in jail. Might be sick now because of no social distancing being practiced during the looting at the Pharmacy. Oh the grief just keeps a pilin' up.
"from the internet"
Just like the riots of 92 in L A. The looting and pillaging continues, for those that want free anything... By way of thuggery, stealing, looting, vandalizing, will meet an unfortunate situation as the business owners have set up shop in strategic positions to meet that challenge. Some ran in, fewer ran out. :o
the news radio here (Philly area) reported about some "looters" that broke into a gunshop... apparently the owner was sleeping on the premises due to a previous break-in attempt. He watched them [on the security system feeds] cut the locks, etc to get into the store.
It did not end well for the looters.
Has it seemed strange to you, as it has to me, that when you go into a Home Depot type store...and notice that all of the padlocks are locked up behind a padlocked cage? It's been that way out here in SoCal for many years.
I once asked a store clerk if he thought it ironic that they have to lock-up the locks from being stolen by people who want locks to lock-up their own stuff that might get stolen by other thieves. He didn't get the irony, and just looked at me like I had three heads.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 02, 2020, 01:55:05 PM
Has it seemed strange to you, as it has to me, that when you go into a Home Depot type store...and notice that all of the padlocks are locked up behind a padlocked cage? It's been that way out here in SoCal for many years.
I once asked a store clerk if he thought it ironic that they have to lock-up the locks from being stolen by people who want locks to lock-up their own stuff that might get stolen by other thieves. He didn't get the irony, and just looked at me like I had three heads.
Insightful and humorous observation. I am awfully tempted to buy a gun for added safety. Been looking at Walther pps m2 9mm. https://www.gunbuyer.com/walther-pps-m2-black-9mm-3-2-2805961-wal2805961-gb.html
I think I am asking for trouble. Don't own any guns. Used to own pellet rifles in Canada but never a firearm.
Quote from: deathsled on June 02, 2020, 04:36:49 PM
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 02, 2020, 01:55:05 PM
Has it seemed strange to you, as it has to me, that when you go into a Home Depot type store...and notice that all of the padlocks are locked up behind a padlocked cage? It's been that way out here in SoCal for many years.
I once asked a store clerk if he thought it ironic that they have to lock-up the locks from being stolen by people who want locks to lock-up their own stuff that might get stolen by other thieves. He didn't get the irony, and just looked at me like I had three heads.
Insightful and humorous observation. I am awfully tempted to buy a gun for added safety. Been looking at Walther pps m2 9mm. https://www.gunbuyer.com/walther-pps-m2-black-9mm-3-2-2805961-wal2805961-gb.html
I think I am asking for trouble. Don't own any guns. Used to own pellet rifles in Canada but never a firearm.
If you choose to purchase count on spending some time at the range. 5000 to 10000 rounds at 50 feet and you should be proficient. ;)
JMHO and experiance
Quote from: deathsled on June 02, 2020, 04:36:49 PM
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 02, 2020, 01:55:05 PM
Has it seemed strange to you, as it has to me, that when you go into a Home Depot type store...and notice that all of the padlocks are locked up behind a padlocked cage? It's been that way out here in SoCal for many years.
I once asked a store clerk if he thought it ironic that they have to lock-up the locks from being stolen by people who want locks to lock-up their own stuff that might get stolen by other thieves. He didn't get the irony, and just looked at me like I had three heads.
Insightful and humorous observation. I am awfully tempted to buy a gun for added safety. Been looking at Walther pps m2 9mm. https://www.gunbuyer.com/walther-pps-m2-black-9mm-3-2-2805961-wal2805961-gb.html
I think I am asking for trouble. Don't own any guns. Used to own pellet rifles in Canada but never a firearm.
I like that model also. Very reasonably priced.
The original designs didn't protect your thumb knuckle from the carriage. Unknowing users would shear the skin off of it first firing.
Just be aware of that. They have a following like Shelby's do and if you make friends at the range, one might offer you a try.
Considering the origin of the piece that's one heck of a design oversight?
Richard,
I agree with Chris, and also recommend you first go to a range and get advice on (and try out) the rental guns they have.
Many times, I've thought that I really wanted to buy a "fill in the blank"...but when I shot it, I either didn't like the fit to my hand, or I couldn't shoot it very accurately. Glocks are that way for me. I prefer a heavier gun.
And yes: Practice, practice, practice.
We call those citizens " early Christmas gifts harvesters "
Quote from: gt350hr on June 02, 2020, 11:41:51 AM
Needed some aspirin. Couldn't get any because people overcome with grief broke into the store to get relief for all their personal grief and STOLE it. Then because of their unsatisfied GRIEF they BURNED the building down. Man those people show have allot of grief. Some of those who STOLE got even more grief when the poleice stopped them after an hour long high speed chase. So much grief they run to get back home to grieve. Now they have grief in jail. Might be sick now because of no social distancing being practiced during the looting at the Pharmacy. Oh the grief just keeps a pilin' up.
"from the internet"
Quote from: deathsled on June 02, 2020, 04:36:49 PM
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 02, 2020, 01:55:05 PM
Has it seemed strange to you, as it has to me, that when you go into a Home Depot type store...and notice that all of the padlocks are locked up behind a padlocked cage? It's been that way out here in SoCal for many years.
I once asked a store clerk if he thought it ironic that they have to lock-up the locks from being stolen by people who want locks to lock-up their own stuff that might get stolen by other thieves. He didn't get the irony, and just looked at me like I had three heads.
Insightful and humorous observation. I am awfully tempted to buy a gun for added safety. Been looking at Walther pps m2 9mm. https://www.gunbuyer.com/walther-pps-m2-black-9mm-3-2-2805961-wal2805961-gb.html (https://www.gunbuyer.com/walther-pps-m2-black-9mm-3-2-2805961-wal2805961-gb.html)
I think I am asking for trouble. Don't own any guns. Used to own pellet rifles in Canada but never a firearm.
Since you opened this can of worms Richard, I'll give you my two cents worth. You first have to ask yourself the question - Why? Since I'll assume the answer is for personal protection, the next question to ask yourself - Am I prepared to use lethal force if necessary? If not, choose a non-lethal self defense option. If your answer is yes, then determine when and where you will arm yourself. Can you get a concealed weapons permit in your state? Or can you carry without a permit in your vehicle? Or will it be used exclusively at home? If you carry there are a ton of great carry handguns out there to choose from. If possible, go to a local range that lets you rent them or try them before you buy. Then, as Chris and others have said, practice with it. A lot. If you just want home defense I would opt for a shotgun. Many makes and models will fit the bill. Do you have any Rural King stores near you? Ours has about the best prices of any gun stores around. RKGuns.com (https://www.rkguns.com/walther-pps-m2-le-9mm-black-3-18-7rd-pistol-2807696.html) has that same gun for $299.97 with no transfer fee if you pick up at RK. Good luck!
Well at least they get a photo to remind them of their time in GRIEF. It even has a number to IS them ;)
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 02, 2020, 05:04:04 PM
Richard,
I agree with Chris, and also recommend you first go to a range and get advice on (and try out) the rental guns they have.
Many times, I've thought that I really wanted to buy a "fill in the blank"...but when I shot it, I either didn't like the fit to my hand, or I couldn't shoot it very accurately. Glocks are that way for me. I prefer a heavier gun.
And yes: Practice, practice, practice.
Yes, agree, go somewhere you can try out the different make/ models. I also prefer something heavier. Tried several before I finally purchased a Sig 226 stainless elite. At 42 oz it's heavier than most 9mm. In the end it's a personal choice and only you can decide what "feels" right. As mentioned a shotgun with #7 bird shot is an excellent choice for home.
380 Taurus TCP semi that I carry every single day!! Carried in an inside clipped Graphite holster.
At home, Winchester "protector" 12 ga. synthetic loaded with buck shot.
Also at home wife's S&W 380 semi 10 round clip.
Always keep loaded extra mag in pocket away from home and at home.
BTW, I and my wife do have a CCP and practice several times a month, a Gold member of the USCCA. and stay tuned in to their training videos constantly.
Quote from: 69mach351w on June 02, 2020, 05:49:15 PM
380 Taurus TCP semi that I carry every single day!! Carried in an inside clipped Graphite holster.
At home, Winchester "protector" 12 ga. synthetic loaded with buck shot.
Also at home wife's S&W 380 semi 10 round clip.
Always keep loaded extra mag in pocket away from home and at home.
BTW, I and my wife do have a CCP and practice several times a month, a Gold member of the USCCA. and stay tuned in to their training videos constantly.
I used to think buckshot also, but consider this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=noQGg_t5eYY (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=noQGg_t5eYY)
Food for thought.
I don't live in close proximity to other houses, so the "00 buck versus smaller pellets" discussion is more of a "do you want the responders to find big pieces, or little pieces, of the perp?"
Quote from: deathsled on June 02, 2020, 04:36:49 PM
I am awfully tempted to buy a gun for added safety.
I think I am asking for trouble. Don't own any guns.
If you feel the police are going to protect you............. pay more attention to the current effectiveness of their efforts!
And if you choose to arm ones' self (I would sure advise such), in choosing your device think of how you intend to use it; that is, as "carry" weapon, or is it to park in a draw at the house for home protection? The unit your considering is a fine choice particularly for carry weapon, but if it's going to stay at home, I would pick something a bit bigger and heavier as they prove easier to handle; which includes the fact that the grips fit a mans' hands better, they tend to point better (no time for aiming if your in a hurry), recoil is easier to control (a follow-up discharge maybe required) and even the acoustical effect upon discharge is dampened somewhat better (have you ever encountered the sound of a gun going off in the enclosure of a room in a house?). :o
Yes. go handle some handguns at the local gun store first, figure out which ones' fit your hand well, remember they get heavier when loaded, and with out looking to ominous, ask to go to the range even without ammunition and try some of what I call a guns' "self-pointing" characteristics. This is executed by staring at an object (down-range please) then quickly raise your handgun from a position down at your side straight armed shoulder level pointed at the target without actually aiming thru the sights, now look thru the sights, how close am I? Handguns offer different "grip-angles" and weight bias front to back, and this effects the natural pointing characteristics of the device. The more comfortably the gun fits your hand and the better it integrates with you in the beginning, the less familiarization that will be necessary latter in order to provide proper service in a crisis situation. ;)
And of course, put some rounds thru your purchase, until you feel comfortable with it as a defensive tool. Remember, your generally not going to discharge the weapon in the direction of another human being unless they're relatively close (dammed close actually) to you, that is unless you're plan is to go to jail anyway, so although good gun control means being able to hit what your aiming at, we're strictly discussing personal and/or family home security here.
As for me, in handguns, nothing beats a 230gr. 45ACP out of a Colt 1911! But yes, other than it's perhaps a little slower on the draw, a 12ga. pump behind the bedroom door (remember, it's better if you demonstrate that you attempted to retreat, before you took them out!) is hard to beat. ::)
And, if you ask any honest police person they'll tell you: the police are going to be a "reactive" force, not a "proactive" one in these situations (i.e. it'll be all over by the time we get there!). :(
Scott.
Quote from: Chris Thauberger on June 02, 2020, 06:13:39 PM
Quote from: 69mach351w on June 02, 2020, 05:49:15 PM
380 Taurus TCP semi that I carry every single day!! Carried in an inside clipped Graphite holster.
At home, Winchester "protector" 12 ga. synthetic loaded with buck shot.
Also at home wife's S&W 380 semi 10 round clip.
Always keep loaded extra mag in pocket away from home and at home.
BTW, I and my wife do have a CCP and practice several times a month, a Gold member of the USCCA. and stay tuned in to their training videos constantly.
I used to think buckshot also, but consider this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=noQGg_t5eYY (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=noQGg_t5eYY)
Food for thought.
I disagree with bird shot. A friend of mine is an SBI agent and other close friends in law enforcement say they've seen MANY live through bird shot. When a home intruder breaks into your house, your instinct and intention is to Kill, not maim or wound because then you will have a LOOONG road ahead of you in court that can drag on for many months, and you may not win!!! Yes, that's exactly right.
My SBI Friend and others in law enforcement say you have to shoot to kill in your Home.
That's my opinion and many will have their own opinion.
Yes to all pbf777 just said.
A Colt 1911 .45ACP is my choice too. You can get them with short barrels, if carry is your main objective.
Quote from: 69mach351w on June 02, 2020, 06:52:08 PM
When a home intruder breaks into your house, your instinct and intention is to Kill, not maim or wound because then you will have a LOOONG road ahead of you in court that can drag on for many months, and you may not win!!! Yes, that's exactly right.
As my departed grandmother would say: "dead men tell no tales"!, so aim, and make your shots count! ::)
Scott.
Kimber 1911 45acp. Feels just right and VERY accurate!! Mike G.
Excellent information from everyone here. A great example of how we can have a discussion about something other than cars without it getting ridiculous, well almost.
Thanks for the information
Chris
Quote from: 69mach351w on June 02, 2020, 06:52:08 PM
Quote from: Chris Thauberger on June 02, 2020, 06:13:39 PM
Quote from: 69mach351w on June 02, 2020, 05:49:15 PM
380 Taurus TCP semi that I carry every single day!! Carried in an inside clipped Graphite holster.
At home, Winchester "protector" 12 ga. synthetic loaded with buck shot.
Also at home wife's S&W 380 semi 10 round clip.
Always keep loaded extra mag in pocket away from home and at home.
BTW, I and my wife do have a CCP and practice several times a month, a Gold member of the USCCA. and stay tuned in to their training videos constantly.
I used to think buckshot also, but consider this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=noQGg_t5eYY (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=noQGg_t5eYY)
Food for thought.
I disagree with bird shot. A friend of mine is an SBI agent and other close friends in law enforcement say they've seen MANY live through bird shot. When a home intruder breaks into your house, your instinct and intention is to Kill, not maim or wound because then you will have a LOOONG road ahead of you in court that can drag on for many months, and you may not win!!! Yes, that's exactly right.
My SBI Friend and others in law enforcement say you have to shoot to kill in your Home.
That's my opinion and many will have their own opinion.
A couple of thoughts here.
LONG ago (35 years) NYPD officers were told that if you need to fire your weapon, you must shoot to kill. IF you fired just to wound, that indicates that you had a choice and you didn't need to fire.
Next. Bird shot in a shotgun indicates the same thing.
For home defense, a pistol grip, "sawed off" (can't be shorter then 18" without special ATF permit which you will not get) pump.
This is what NYPD has "in the car" for up close "riot" situations. Hang it in the closet near the front door, between the coats. Locate it so that you can reach in the closet and swing it out.
NO ONE in their right mind is going to screw with you with that. Show your kids how to handle and use it.
There was a case in Texas where a 5 year old saved his father's life in a home invasion with a shotgun and literally blew the bad guys away.
Load the thing with 00 buckshot and practice the phrase, "please step away from the glass".
Oh. Don't put this sucker against your shoulder to fire. You will be very sorry if you do. It kicks and you need a shoulder pad with any shotgun. This, you fire it like in a Steve McQueen cowboy movie. From the hip. That's why it has a pistol grip.
It really isn't good for much else besides that type of a conflict or watching the assailants shorty hairs stand on end when you look at them. It helps if you don't blink.
You might get a lot of whining about this selection from "precision shooters". Up in close there is little precision shooting. You need terror, power and action now.
I have a "crime scene cleanup" on my Home Owners Insurance Policy. I used to worry about having to clean up all the blood and broken glass. No more. Just do your thing and then call State Farm. They will even put plywood over the holes for you. Perfect? 8)
I need to ask if they have psychiatric therapy though. Likely you will need it at some point and may suffer from Delayed Combat Syndrome? It's a real thing and something MANY Americans get because doing the "right thing" is so violent and seemingly surreal.
A hand gun is more of a a mobile personal device. Make sure you have a full carry permit.
Now here's the thing I don't like about recommending a firearm. Just because you can shoot 98 or 99 out of 100 at a paper or deer target, doesn't mean you have training for a confrontational situation.
This could wind up being like a 16 year old getting a 200mph Lamborghini and thinking he can handle it. He can't. You need to think about that seriously.
It's a difficult subject.
This is all valuable information for me and I thank all of you. I will go to the shooting range tomorrow and apply for a FOID card to start the process. I had a FOID card a long time ago but never made the entry into buying a gun. I have an 11 year old son (though he's in Germany) so it is a concern if/ when he comes to visit. I could always take it apart or put it in a safe. I will need to practice quite a bit with it to become proficient. I have no doubt he would love to shoot a gun. No chance of that happening in the Fatherland for him. I was a great shot with a pellet rifle (Weirauch match target rifle) when I was a teenager but not so good with a pellet pistol. I shot a variety of guns while at Southern Illinois University for law school. (A bit of a culture shock coming from Toronto) and I remember shooting 44 magnum 357 45 and 9 mm. Fellow law student that had us out shooting was playing with the slide bar on the 45 and it went off accidentally in his hand and fell to the ground which was a bit of a surprise for me. I sort of steered clear of guns after that. But the interest is still there. More for home protection than anything else. There is conceal and carry here but every business and building has the no gun sign in Chicagoland so it becomes a crime if caught on premises with a concealed firearm. But if we degenerate into anarchy (which I don't think will happen but you never know) then that law is thrown out the window along with all the others until order is restored.
Quote from: Mike G. on June 02, 2020, 07:44:27 PM
Kimber 1911 45acp. Feels just right and VERY accurate!! Mike G.
+1 on the Kimber 1911 .45ACP. Mine shoots great too. Fits my hand well and is easy to deploy.
When i first saw this post headline i thought it must be from either "Coral the Viper Snake" or "Tony the Florida Hurricane"
But Randy.....OK
So it's turned to Gun Choice.
Glocks, Mp5s, 1911s, all good choices
Or 140 year old classics, an't that what we about.
Average shooter (me) practice stage 23 on target shots in 27 seconds, with 4 guns = a lot of dead perps.
BTW a fast shooter can do that in 12 seconds.
Anyway we are in the lounge.
Video clip below...
Sign I'm tempted to put up in my yard:
The locks on this home are not to protect me from you, but protect you from me ;)
I never post online what I may, or may not have within the confines of my legal domicile.
I'll leave it at that
QuoteThere is conceal and carry here but every business and building has the no gun sign in Chicagoland so it becomes a crime if caught on premises with a concealed firearm.
In Florida (and yes, every state has their own gun laws so check before travelling) carrying concealed in a store that posts a sign is not illegal. Store owners can ask you to leave and/or not come back, but if you're carrying concealed they will never know unless you are forced to use your weapon in which case they may actually thank you. The State does list places that you aren't allowed to carry such as a court house, school, a place of nuisance and it's the only state that prohibits carrying a weapon in an airport terminal.
Another resource is a four part series starting on October 18, 2019 from Mike Adams (https://townhall.com/columnists/mikeadams/). Good info.
Quote from: kjspeed on June 02, 2020, 05:07:46 PM
Quote from: deathsled on June 02, 2020, 04:36:49 PM
Quote from: Side-Oilers on June 02, 2020, 01:55:05 PM
Has it seemed strange to you, as it has to me, that when you go into a Home Depot type store...and notice that all of the padlocks are locked up behind a padlocked cage? It's been that way out here in SoCal for many years.
I once asked a store clerk if he thought it ironic that they have to lock-up the locks from being stolen by people who want locks to lock-up their own stuff that might get stolen by other thieves. He didn't get the irony, and just looked at me like I had three heads.
Insightful and humorous observation. I am awfully tempted to buy a gun for added safety. Been looking at Walther pps m2 9mm. https://www.gunbuyer.com/walther-pps-m2-black-9mm-3-2-2805961-wal2805961-gb.html (https://www.gunbuyer.com/walther-pps-m2-black-9mm-3-2-2805961-wal2805961-gb.html)
I think I am asking for trouble. Don't own any guns. Used to own pellet rifles in Canada but never a firearm.
Since you opened this can of worms Richard, I'll give you my two cents worth. You first have to ask yourself the question - Why? Since I'll assume the answer is for personal protection, the next question to ask yourself - Am I prepared to use lethal force if necessary? If not, choose a non-lethal self defense option. If your answer is yes, then determine when and where you will arm yourself. Can you get a concealed weapons permit in your state? Or can you carry without a permit in your vehicle? Or will it be used exclusively at home? If you carry there are a ton of great carry handguns out there to choose from. If possible, go to a local range that lets you rent them or try them before you buy. Then, as Chris and others have said, practice with it. A lot.
If you just want home defense I would opt for a shotgun. Many makes and models will fit the bill. Do you have any Rural King stores near you? Ours has about the best prices of any gun stores around. RKGuns.com (https://www.rkguns.com/walther-pps-m2-le-9mm-black-3-18-7rd-pistol-2807696.html) has that same gun for $299.97 with no transfer fee if you pick up at RK. Good luck!
You must have taken crazy uncle Joe's advice. Shotguns are never advisable for home defense. They are used with teams for BREACHING weapons. I taught CQB and my first retirement was from the CHP. If you want an example of why you never use a shotgun try making corners and going through doorways with a broom. You'll understand my point quickly. Especially in older homes with 24 and 32" doors. You'll wind up getting it taken away from you by the perp and used on you. Handguns and SBR's are always advised. Another consideration is munitions and how they penetrate when you buy specifically for home defense. NEVER buy cheap firearms. I own two shotguns. One is a Browning I use for skeet, the other is a Benelli Super 90 with a 11" breaching barrel. They are an NFA weapon and require a tax stamp. Some states will not allow ownership of automatic or short barreled weapons. If you aren't willing to use lethal force to protect your family, you're a coward. Criminals don't care about your or your family's life and I have seen more than one person with their brains splattered on an ATM for a 20.00 dollar bill. One 19 year old man for five dollars. I was on duty during the 92 riots by the way. If you waited until this juncture to buy a firearm you're not going to find much out there worthwhile.
Now we have the Chinese funded communist anarchist destroying small business and all while the economy is devastated by a deliberate act from a foreign hostile government. Joy!
There are no transfer fees. All weapons through a dealer require background checks though the DOJ, regardless of state of residence.
Quote from: Bill on June 03, 2020, 06:43:04 AM
Sign I'm tempted to put up in my yard:
The locks on this home are not to protect me from you, but protect you from me ;)
I never post online what I may, or may not have within the confines of my legal domicile.
I'll leave it at that
Reminded me of this;
Quote from: pbf777 on June 02, 2020, 07:15:10 PM
Quote from: 69mach351w on June 02, 2020, 06:52:08 PM
When a home intruder breaks into your house, your instinct and intention is to Kill, not maim or wound because then you will have a LOOONG road ahead of you in court that can drag on for many months, and you may not win!!! Yes, that's exactly right.
As my departed grandmother would say: "dead men tell no tales"!, so aim, and make your shots count! ::)
Make sure no one is filming you when your killing. That is what started this whole thing.
Scott.
Not too long ago we had a discussion about thugs entering our race car haulers- A what if situation... Today with all that is going on with the world it seems more on the front burner then ever. Same could be said for our businesses, our homes, etc. There were some funny signs some said they would post for a serious situation as a warning to those that have ill will in their thoughts. America was built on some core values like we see with flags being flown... Don't tread on me! A simple statement, but one we cherish. We don't want the thug life taking over burning, looting, pillaging, vandalizing, Harassing etc. It is in that split second, that decisions are made if the one that enters vertically will exit horizontally.
Quote from: 6s2020 on June 03, 2020, 05:56:09 AM
When i first saw this post headline i thought it must be from either "Coral the Viper Snake" or "Tony the Florida Hurricane"
But Randy.....OK
So it's turned to Gun Choice.
Glocks, Mp5s, 1911s, all good choices
Or 140 year old classics, an't that what we about.
Average shooter (me) practice stage 23 on target shots in 27 seconds, with 4 guns = a lot of dead perps.
BTW a fast shooter can do that in 12 seconds.
Anyway we are in the lounge.
Video clip below...
Well done indeed. ;D
Please do not mention me in the same sentence with the "other"
And how did you know my nickname???
Much appreciated thank you
Quote from: 6s2020 on June 03, 2020, 05:56:09 AM
"Tony the Florida Hurricane"
But Randy.....OK
So it's turned to Gun Choice.
Glocks, Mp5s, 1911s, all good choices
Or 140 year old classics, an't that what we about.
Average shooter (me) practice stage 23 on target shots in 27 seconds, with 4 guns = a lot of dead perps.
BTW a fast shooter can do that in 12 seconds.
Anyway we are in the lounge.
Video clip below...
You deserve a plus one
Quote from: Bob Gaines on June 03, 2020, 10:48:28 AM
Quote from: 6s2020 on June 03, 2020, 05:56:09 AM
When i first saw this post headline i thought it must be from either "Coral the Viper Snake" or "Tony the Florida Hurricane"
But Randy.....OK
So it's turned to Gun Choice.
Glocks, Mp5s, 1911s, all good choices
Or 140 year old classics, an't that what we about.
Average shooter (me) practice stage 23 on target shots in 27 seconds, with 4 guns = a lot of dead perps.
BTW a fast shooter can do that in 12 seconds.
Anyway we are in the lounge.
Video clip below...
Well done indeed. ;D
Really didn't want to get in this firearms discussion, but you drew me in.
Forget about this gun that gun shot gun
Get a hand cannon like this one, easy to conceal, relatively inexpensive and enough power to stop an elephant.
Boom !
QuoteYou must have taken crazy uncle Joe's advice.
Whoa! I didn't say anything about sniffing hair or firing two shots out of your double barrel shotgun outside (leaving you unarmed) or shooting someone in the leg. Every situation is different and there are a variety of opinions regarding self defense weapons and tactics - even among professionals. Richard (and others) are probably getting a lot out of this pharmacy discussion of firearms. I'm sure that he'll inform himself and make his choices accordingly. ~Kevin
Quote from: kjspeed on June 03, 2020, 11:20:56 AM
QuoteYou must have taken crazy uncle Joe's advice.
Whoa! I didn't say anything about sniffing hair or firing two shots out of your double barrel shotgun outside (leaving you unarmed) or shooting someone in the leg. Every situation is different and there are a variety of opinions regarding self defense weapons and tactics - even among professionals. Richard (and others) are probably getting a lot out of this pharmacy discussion of firearms. I'm sure that he'll inform himself and make his choices accordingly. ~Kevin
Wait, you fail to listen to the "fountain of knowledge" at your own risk! He will say it "short and sweet" in a full page post.
Quote from: shelbydoug on June 02, 2020, 08:15:05 PM
For home defense, a pistol grip, "sawed off" (can't be shorter then 18" without special ATF permit which you will not get) pump.
It really isn't good for much else besides that type of a conflict
I realize that the number one goal would be to survive an unwanted conflict, but keep in mind, the next big concern will be staying out of jail!
I don't disagree with the effectiveness of creating mayhem that this weapon has, although such devices are often credited with the ability to "kill on both ends", one has to be confident that the presentation post incident proves palatable to the point of innocence on your part. Therefore, I would recommend selecting something commercially available, at the typical sporting goods store, deemed reasonably acceptable by the norm vs. the hacksaw special with "KILLER" hand-carved in the grip! ::)
Even if there's no real-time recording of the incident, someone is going to paint a picture, this often being of the median and of a depiction preferred by the creator, so the less ominous you present, perhaps the less quickly you will be condemned.
For example. to the best of my very limited knowledge, I am not aware of evidence stated at this time that this current debacle although constantly stated as being result of racist provocation actually was. Perhaps, this is actually just the result of a criminal, irregardless of race, resisting arrest to the point of requiring multiple officers to subdue him. Lesson is that is probably best to avoid the impropriety that draws the attention of law enforcement in a negative view; and for the police as well as not to provide the media with any angles to exploit for their own agendas. ;)
Remember, the world is run by the stupid people, like it or not, but believe it! :(
Scott.
The bottom line to remember is you can not use deadly force to protect property - Almost every state with few exception (like Connecticut where you must retreat if possible) have laws the specify if someone breaks into a occupied dwelling that the legal inference be they are there to harm you, and you have the right to defend yourself or another. The key is protection of life vs protection of property.
Quote from: 2112 on June 03, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Bill on June 03, 2020, 06:43:04 AM
Sign I'm tempted to put up in my yard:
The locks on this home are not to protect me from you, but protect you from me ;)
I never post online what I may, or may not have within the confines of my legal domicile.
I'll leave it at that
Nice!!
Reminded me of this;
Quote from: deathsled on June 02, 2020, 08:52:19 PM
This is all valuable information for me and I thank all of you. I will go to the shooting range tomorrow and apply for a FOID card to start the process.
It's better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it.
See if there is an IL gun forum. You'll get lots of tips on local laws etc. You'll probably find people willing to let you meet them at the range to try different guns before you buy. You might need to take a friend with you to the range before they'll rent you a gun. A lot of ranges here in SoCal have that rule due to people coming in to rent a gun and committing suicide. I'll put my 2 cents in for Glock. Poly guns are easier to care for. Glocks generally hold more ammo.
Quote from: FL SAAC on June 03, 2020, 04:02:24 PM
"It's better to be judged by twelve than to be carried by six"
True, but factor in that you will be sued by the perp or the perps family afterward, no matter what the circumstances are.
Desert eagle AE 50 cal. 300 grain. One shot end of threat, use only under zombie apocalypse conditions. There will be no repairing damage to threats body parts or the get away vehicle engine block etc.
Stay tuned for tomorrow's discussion of the third ammendment. Specifically quartering troops . Particularly timely as many troops are belng called to duty.
I have decided to join the Lounge crowd. No more insight on classic Shelbys or helpful information about cars! Boring....
I was in the military for 26 years, so this will be awesome. Even looking forward to hearing from you army folk!
I hope the Ad King comes back. That was informative and fun. I seem to remember that he granted wishes.
Move to sunny Florida, a stand your ground state.
And always remember "It's better to be judged by twelve than to be carried by six"
Quote from: Coralsnake on June 03, 2020, 05:09:57 PM
Stay tuned for tomorrow's discussion of the third ammendment. Specifically quartering troops . Particularly timely as many troops are belng called to duty.
I have decided to join the Lounge crowd. No more insight on classic Shelbys or helpful information about cars! Boring....
I was in the military for 26 years, so this will be awesome. Even looking forward to hearing from you army folk!
How soon before your web site is changed over to the new direction??
Here's another axiom: When seconds count, the police are minutes away
I understand our resident "expert" on everything wrote something that was removed - after being sent it's content I think my suspicions are correct. To answer his question, I retired after 30 years as a policeman in So Cal and everything this guy writes sets off my B.S. meter. Just in case someone is confused - the advice given (in his post that was removed) that you can kill a person to protect property is incorrect.
I had many friends in the CHP and most were very humble hardworking guys, "the expert" matches up with my experience with police management which was much different. The ladder climbers that spend 10 minutes in the field and constantly tell their war story (because they don't have war stories ;D). They have a degree from a online college, go to classes on everything to become an expert without any field application, can lie with easy, and throw everyone under the bus to obtain the next stripe, star or bar, they also need to be the center of attention; oh, I almost forgot they are mostly Masons.....
What upset you the swear words or the suggestion made to you?
We could repost it?
After all its the Lounge...it would probably be okay.
🤔
Too much snark...
This is an interesting thread.. ::) ...here's some suggestions...
Stay reasonably on the subject at hand
If you disagree, state why in logical terms
If you vehemently disagree, I suggest you leave the thread...or I will help with that.
Thanks
Just tried to get my Firearm Owners ID card and got this message.
Internal Server Error
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
Suggestions:
Please contact the Web site administrator to alert them of the time, the error occured and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
Addendum. Now I am hell bent on getting my FOID card. I am not going to be deterred.
Quote from: pbf777 on June 03, 2020, 01:57:23 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on June 02, 2020, 08:15:05 PM
For home defense, a pistol grip, "sawed off" (can't be shorter then 18" without special ATF permit which you will not get) pump.
It really isn't good for much else besides that type of a conflict
I realize that the number one goal would be to survive an unwanted conflict, but keep in mind, the next big concern will be staying out of jail!
All the more reason to join an organization that will stand behind you, in front of you or steer you in the right direction to someone in your town that will stand up for you in a court of Law;)
Quote from: 2112 on June 03, 2020, 04:09:15 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC on June 03, 2020, 04:02:24 PM
"It's better to be judged by twelve than to be carried by six"
True, but factor in that you will be sued by the perp or the perps family afterward, no matter what the circumstances are.
See post #53 Above ;)
Quote from: 427hunter on June 03, 2020, 02:10:36 PM
The bottom line to remember is you can not use deadly force to protect property - Almost every state with few exception (like Connecticut where you must retreat if possible) have laws the specify if someone breaks into a occupied dwelling that the legal inference be they are there to harm you, and you have the right to defend yourself or another. The key is protection of life vs protection of property.
+1 Protect your Life when in Danger.....Property is just that....Property.
As I stated. 18,5" is the minimum legal length. If they are less they must be registered as an AOW/SBR. It requires the same federal licensing/Tax Stamp as an automatic weapon. I own a the 14" and the 18.5" barrel for my Benelli Super 90. It's an eight round/semi-auto or pump operation.
You don't want to deal with any NFA violations as they are prosecuted federally.
OK as the OP here, let me 'splain how I saw this. The MURDER of a man by police is inexcusable NO question. The comment I posted is a stab at OUR society. We NEED to grieve over George's MURDER, BUT grieving isn't eliminated by going to Footlocker and break the glass to get that set(or four sets)of sneakers you always wanted. Same for clothes , food, liquor, Oxycotten , or whatever people chose to STEAL and FURTHER impart unwarranted grief on OTHER innocent people all brought on by George's murder. The post had NOTHING to do with guns , PERIOD. It is about US. Hell we can't even talk on a forum without insulting each other. My daily driver was broken into a couple weeks ago. My jacket with my wallet was one of the items stolen. Sure I'm mad. The police gave me a report number and said "good luck" we don't have the resources to investigate. While not as severe as murder , do "I" eliminate my grief by breaking into a Pharmacy or shoe store to eliminate "MY" grief??????? Do I buy M-80s and throw them or rocks and bottles at Police???
Don't spin this off onto guns. Having or not having them isn't pertinent to this thread.
Black people feel they are targeted by the Police and Hispanics are now saying the same thing. How SAFE is a white "person" going "uninvited" into a black or Hispanic neighborhood???? Is it odd that crime is higher in those areas than predominantly white neighborhoods??? Crime and murder is what causes the need for Police in the first place.
I didn't want to go political , I just wanted people to look inward.
I will not post any further on this thread.
Just my opinion, but what would help minority groups that languish at the bottom is to help instill the importance and desirability of the family. More specifically, having the father in the home.
For too many decades, we, as a society, have promoted this notion that choices do not have consequences. The biggest example of this is the lack of fathers at home. At home daily. Involved in their children's lives and caring about keeping the family safe and together. Prosperity will follow.
JMHO
Quote from: FL SAAC on June 03, 2020, 05:52:39 PM
Move to sunny Florida, a stand your ground state.
Now I'm going to cause some trouble; George Zimmerman's debacle took place in Florida! The Prosecutors' Office determined it was self defense (lets see, your on your back on the pavement, the assailant is on top of you slamming your head into the pavement, you shoot!), but then because of individuals with no real knowledge of the situation and apparently few other responsibilities begin protesting (rioting & looting, just ask the other citizens of Sanford, Florida) and it becomes a racist hate crime in the presentation by the all knowing leftist media who just love to fan the flames, so the powers that be were determined that there would be a trial (as they would readily trade your head for their appointments). In the end, everyone is just if not more so separated in their ill-founded beliefs, the tax payers are out millions of dollars, other judicial cases are neglected, the cost of your premises insurance goes up and like him or not, but probably correctly found not-guilty, Zimmerman is a ruined man, and in more ways than one. :o
B.T.W., I do own a Desert Eagle 50 A.E., but that might not be exactly what I meant when I said I'd acquire something larger than perhaps a "compact" gun for the home. Perhaps a bit of a handful particularly a novice to use and again, you'd look like a "Terminator" want-a-be in the press! ::)
Scott.
"I may close early."
Quote from: deathsled on June 04, 2020, 01:24:52 PM
"I may close early."
I went to down town Orlando to attempt to do business Wednesday and then again Thursday just to find the office buildings are all closed and locked up by 2:00 p.m., officially stating so in "observance of the protest-march"; but as related to me by the decision makers of these businesses, well,......... actually,........ in "preparation for the inevitable violence" that will ensue! :o
I can't remember being taught that any kind of protest although within our rights, as citizens of this country to do so, involved the acquisition or damage to someone else's property or well being. I must have missed that course in school and at home! ::)
Scott.
Quote from: pbf777 on June 04, 2020, 02:06:15 PM
Quote from: deathsled on June 04, 2020, 01:24:52 PM
"I may close early."
I went to down town Orlando to attempt to do business Wednesday and then again Thursday just to find the office buildings are all closed and locked up by 2:00 p.m., officially stating so in "observance of the protest-march"; but as related to me by the decision makers of these businesses, well,......... actually,........ in "preparation for the inevitable violence" that will ensue! :o
I can't remember being taught that any kind of protest although within our rights, as citizens of this country to do so, involved the acquisition or damage to someone else's property or well being. I must have missed that course in school and at home! ::)
Scott.
The latest generation is learning the benefits of 'protests' and free stuff. Doesn't bode well for the future. Cultures don't change quickly.
Quote from: Rodster-500 on June 04, 2020, 08:54:17 PM
Quote from: pbf777 on June 04, 2020, 02:06:15 PM
Quote from: deathsled on June 04, 2020, 01:24:52 PM
"I may close early."
I went to down town Orlando to attempt to do business Wednesday and then again Thursday just to find the office buildings are all closed and locked up by 2:00 p.m., officially stating so in "observance of the protest-march"; but as related to me by the decision makers of these businesses, well,......... actually,........ in "preparation for the inevitable violence" that will ensue! :o
The recipients of a culture of absentee parents, entitlement, leftist professors and Godless amoral upbringings. Agreed.
I can't remember being taught that any kind of protest although within our rights, as citizens of this country to do so, involved the acquisition or damage to someone else's property or well being. I must have missed that course in school and at home! ::)
Scott.
The latest generation is learning the benefits of 'protests' and free stuff. Doesn't bode well for the future. Cultures don't change quickly.
@ Reply #57, Randy.....
Lol, I see many,many times on this forum how a thread get twisted into something TOTALLY opposite than the original OP intended, So this thread isn't a surprise to me at all!!
Just go through and read, You will see.
Hopefully it has run it's course and ends here?
I cant speak for Randy or others so this is just my take on a simple statement... Went to the Pharmacy today! Since I had to go to work in what only could be called a war zone , the 92 LA RIOTS ! Only someone that was right there,living that moment can understand what it is actually like. All they wanted to do was to get some necessities for themselves.... RIGHT , and look what it turned into. Reginald Denny just wanted to drive his truck to the job site and got his brains beat in with bricks and left for dead. These were lessons learned from back in the day, we don't want to repeat those days. So the direction this thread went was when you try to see something thru to more then just that moment in time, things become a little more clear.