Got a question about what appears to be a really obscure factory part; does anyone KNOW what the S1MK-5483-K Rear Stabilizer Bar Kit actually looks like (better yet, does anyone have any pictures of a real one, either installed or laying on the garage floor)? I have a factory invoice that shows two of these sway bar kits being sold to Dale Wood in August 1966. I want to build one for my 1966 Mustang A-Sedan race car that is currently in the middle of a long term refurbishment, and I'd like to put it back to more of a late 60s configuration rather than using a lot of contemporary stuff.
Thanks,
Dave
I am pretty sure that the R models didn't use a rear bar. I PRESUME the T/A cars were set up modelled after the R's.
I can definitely tell you that I could never get any to work on my '68. Even the smallest would induce pre-nasty understeer.
I'm sure that you will want to try setting one up for yourself but it is pretty much the consensus that they don't work.
You might ask why the Boss 302's have them I can't say BUT I think that it may have to do with the lack of lowered front suspension arms and the racing rate springs? Those are on my car along with an 1-1/8" front anti-sway bar.
It all comes down to how you set up the car but there may be one critical factor that determines whether a rear bar will work or not. I;m guessing the lowered front a-arms?
One of the less spoken about trick things done to the R's and T/A cars was putting an extra long leaf in the wrong assembly. That too I am running.
I think that Shelby bar is just an ADDCO kit, repackaged?
Quote from: shelbydoug on August 02, 2020, 07:30:19 PM
I am pretty sure that the R models didn't use a rear bar. I PRESUME the T/A cars were set up modelled after the R's.
I can definitely tell you that I could never get any to work on my '68. Even the smallest would induce pre-nasty understeer.
I'm sure that you will want to try setting one up for yourself but it is pretty much the consensus that they don't work.
You might ask why the Boss 302's have them I can't say BUT I think that it may have to do with the lack of lowered front suspension arms and the racing rate springs? Those are on my car along with an 1-1/8" front anti-sway bar.
It all comes down to how you set up the car but there may be one critical factor that determines whether a rear bar will work or not. I;m guessing the lowered front a-arms?
One of the less spoken about trick things done to the R's and T/A cars was putting an extra long leaf in the wrong assembly. That too I am running.
I think that Shelby bar is just an ADDCO kit, repackaged?
I don't think the R models, 66 or 67 TA cars used a rear bar typically.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on August 02, 2020, 10:04:39 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on August 02, 2020, 07:30:19 PM
I am pretty sure that the R models didn't use a rear bar. I PRESUME the T/A cars were set up modelled after the R's.
I can definitely tell you that I could never get any to work on my '68. Even the smallest would induce pre-nasty understeer.
I'm sure that you will want to try setting one up for yourself but it is pretty much the consensus that they don't work.
You might ask why the Boss 302's have them I can't say BUT I think that it may have to do with the lack of lowered front suspension arms and the racing rate springs? Those are on my car along with an 1-1/8" front anti-sway bar.
It all comes down to how you set up the car but there may be one critical factor that determines whether a rear bar will work or not. I;m guessing the lowered front a-arms?
One of the less spoken about trick things done to the R's and T/A cars was putting an extra long leaf in the wrong assembly. That too I am running.
I think that Shelby bar is just an ADDCO kit, repackaged?
I don't think the R models, 66 or 67 TA cars used a rear bar typically.
In basically repeating the SA setup procedure, I was unable to make a bar work so without being able to do an interview with the original mechanical team, it was my determination that you don't need one and in fact you can't use one.
Racers by nature are not going to take anyone elses word for it and will want to explore that for themselves, but long story short, been there, done that, around 1978 or so (old news), doesn't work. ;)
Are you sure you aren't confusing the "over ride traction bar kit" with that part number?
Quote from: gt350hr on August 03, 2020, 11:28:04 AM
Are you sure you aren't confusing the "over ride traction bar kit" with that part number?
+1 on that Rnday
We had this discussion a lil over two years go. With Z Ray and Shelby Doug. I kept the photos with dated post it notes addressed to the two. Here they are again. (See pics) Mine is a variation from of the Boss302 Suspension Guide with the triple adjustable bar. I have no issues with understeer and my front A Arms are lowered. As you said basically to each his own. It is definitely doable.
Cheers,
~Earl J
Quote from: SFM5S000 on August 03, 2020, 01:40:40 PM
We had this discussion a lil over two years go. With Z Ray and Shelby Doug. I kept the photos with dated post it notes addressed to the two. Here they are again. (See pics) Mine is a variation from of the Boss302 Suspension Guide with the triple adjustable bar. I have no issues with understeer and my front A Arms are lowered. As you said basically to each his own. It is definitely doable.
Cheers,
~Earl J
Don't use Konis in the rear either. Use Comfort Ride. ;D
Quote from: SFM5S000 on August 03, 2020, 01:40:40 PM
We had this discussion a lil over two years go. With Z Ray and Shelby Doug. I kept the photos with dated post it notes addressed to the two. Here they are again. (See pics) Mine is a variation from of the Boss302 Suspension Guide with the triple adjustable bar. I have no issues with understeer and my front A Arms are lowered. As you said basically to each his own. It is definitely doable.
Cheers,
~Earl J
Jim Baker, PO of 6S1757, added the same rear sway bar to the car in 1973 when he started road racing, it is still on the car today. This is listed in the Boss 302 Chassis Modification guide as D0ZX-5A772-A for the 11/16" bar. Jim also added the D0ZX-panhard rod listed in the B2 guide, also still on the car. According to Jim, this combination was very effective on the track.
After reading some of the replies, it made me think I may have misread (and misinterpreted) what was on the Shelby American invoice to Dale Wood (and remembering that occasionally folks have referred to the override and underride traction bars as stabilizer bars), I went back and dug into my books again.
I found the part numbers for the override traction bar kit (S1MS-18127-A for the complete kit) and S2MS-18127-A and S2MS-18128-A for right and left side underrides (respectively), so this (along with the fact that the base part number for a front sway bar being '5482' indicated (to me anyhow) that the part number I have on the invoice to Dale Wood is indeed for a rear sway bar. Unfortunately, from the 1966 and 1967 Group II Mustang Bills of Material don't show a rear sway (stabilizer) bar in the listings (of course, they could also just be the material lists to build a base version of the Group II cars for those years). However, in the course of digging through my books, I found that the bar is supposed to be 1/2" in diameter (Rick Kopec's article in The Shelby American #44 and the 2011 Registry both mention a 1/2" bar was available as an option for the Group II cars). I also found a copy of Shelby American Race Assistance Technical Service Bulletin #1 (dated October 10, 1966) which gives a verbal description of the S1MK-5483-A Rear Stabilizer Bar Kit (described as being permitted on Group II cars under FIA rules). These and the aforementioned invoice with the part number are all I have to go on so far- but not a single photograph,
Interestingly, Earl's photos and Dave's description of the DOZX bar made me remember I have a nearly identical bar, except for being 1/2", out on my barn. This bar even has the same tab with three holes and the same type end links (Heim jointed on the top and rubber bushings on the bottom). If I can't find the specs or photos of the S1MK bar, I may end up going with it instead.
Thanks,
Dave
I am not sure from your post why you are trying to add the rear sway bar in the first place . It seems that they were used very little if at all on the 65,66,and 67 competition models. I don't think that they were historically relevant or offered a significant driving advantage given lack of use by the team or privateer cars back in the day. If you only want it because it is a obscure accessory that is a different story. Just curious what your motivation is.
Quote from: CSX4781 on August 03, 2020, 10:49:18 PM
After reading some of the replies, it made me think I may have misread (and misinterpreted) what was on the Shelby American invoice to Dale Wood (and remembering that occasionally folks have referred to the override and underride traction bars as stabilizer bars), I went back and dug into my books again.
I found the part numbers for the override traction bar kit (S1MS-18127-A for the complete kit) and S2MS-18127-A and S2MS-18128-A for right and left side underrides (respectively), so this (along with the fact that the base part number for a front sway bar being '5482' indicated (to me anyhow) that the part number I have on the invoice to Dale Wood is indeed for a rear sway bar. Unfortunately, from the 1966 and 1967 Group II Mustang Bills of Material don't show a rear sway (stabilizer) bar in the listings (of course, they could also just be the material lists to build a base version of the Group II cars for those years). However, in the course of digging through my books, I found that the bar is supposed to be 1/2" in diameter (Rick Kopec's article in The Shelby American #44 and the 2011 Registry both mention a 1/2" bar was available as an option for the Group II cars). I also found a copy of Shelby American Race Assistance Technical Service Bulletin #1 (dated October 10, 1966) which gives a verbal description of the S1MK-5483-A Rear Stabilizer Bar Kit (described as being permitted on Group II cars under FIA rules). These and the aforementioned invoice with the part number are all I have to go on so far- but not a single photograph,
Interestingly, Earl's photos and Dave's description of the DOZX bar made me remember I have a nearly identical bar, except for being 1/2", out on my barn. This bar even has the same tab with three holes and the same type end links (Heim jointed on the top and rubber bushings on the bottom). If I can't find the specs or photos of the S1MK bar, I may end up going with it instead.
Thanks,
Dave
Dave,
Did you see this post a couple months ago? http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=10424.msg87944#msg87944 (http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=10424.msg87944#msg87944)
A rear sway bar, properly adjusted, will induce oversteer, a necessary attribute if you want the car to rotate. Lee Mathias installed one on 5S071 and was, at one time, Virginia state autocross champ in his class.
Quote from: NC TRACKRAT on August 04, 2020, 07:54:16 AM
A rear sway bar, properly adjusted, will induce oversteer, a necessary attribute if you want the car to rotate. Lee Mathias installed one on 5S071 and was, at one time, Virginia state autocross champ in his class.
Thank you, Stan.
~E
There normally aren't adjustments on either a front or rear anti-sway bar.
I can't say why it works on others cars. I can say that it does not on mine. I tried 3/4, 11/16 and 5/8. All were Addco bars.
With the smallest, the car would not go through the esses. It wanted to go straight. Take the bar off, no problem.
As I said, everyone sets their cars up differently to their preference. I have no problem with that at all.
my 66 also had the dozx boss 302 sway bar kit installed in 1970. it was for the boss 302 originally, is it any good? can't say, i removed it a few years ago. threw it "in the field" {was loose nd rattled} phred
Quote from: papa scoops on August 04, 2020, 12:05:40 PM
my 66 also had the dozx boss 302 sway bar kit installed in 1970. it was for the boss 302 originally, is it any good? can't say, i removed it a few years ago. threw it "in the field" {was loose nd rattled} phred
LMAO! That's funny!
What's not so funny is how much good stuff is actually buried in Phred's field...
In addition to the diameter of the bar, adjusting the position of the drop-links with respect to the end of the bar will cause the bar to be stiffer or weaker. A common mistake is to forget to check for no pre-load on the drop-links. They should be set with the suspension loaded and both drop-links should be neutral. This is true for both front and rear bars.
Quote from: s2ms on August 04, 2020, 03:31:54 PM
What's not so funny is how much good stuff is actually buried in Phred's field...
Just stuff, no bodies right?