What's the consensus for engine oil? My engine builder says Valvoline VR1 20W-50 Racing oil, I asked why and he says he's Just always used it. Also what about break in oil? The engine has a new cam and the valvoline jug says it's a High Zinc formula, the builder says it's fine but I have a knowledgeable friend that says break in oil is the way to go.
Any thoughts?
Break in oil is supposed to allow the rings to wear down the peaks on the cylinder wall in order to form a good seal. Regular motor oil is designed to prevent wear.
Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs Driven break in oil is what I use SAE 30. It has a high Zinc content and does a great job at break in.
Thanks Greg
VR1 20-50 for Big blocks
VR1 10-30 should be fine for small blocks.
Another vote for Brad Penn break in and engine oil.
VR1 20W-50 here in my 69 Mach 351W.
Have been now since the motor was rebuilt in 2010. I did opt for roller cam and lifters for better wear, but no high lift cam, which it still retains a factory type sound. I have put about 6000 miles on it since 2010 with no problems.
Thanks everybody
Racing oils are a trade off (like everything is). They typically don't have much detergent in them. Racers change their oil a LOT! But then we are probably not driving these classics as daily drivers with race oil in them either. So sludge build up probably isn't much of a concern.
I use a standard, old dino juice 10W40 in both my 1969 302 and 1970 428 Mustangs. Last change I got Castrol at my local Walmart. I also add some of the zinc treatments out there. My local O'Reilly even carries the zinc now. I probably don't have to even do that as I'm not pulling trailers or driving with high engine loads when these old cars parts were made to have zinc in the lubricants.
Any of today's oils are light years ahead of what was on the market when these old cars were built.
Quote from: rhjanes on August 14, 2020, 10:14:15 AM
Racing oils are a trade off (like everything is). They typically don't have much detergent in them. Racers change their oil a LOT! But then we are probably not driving these classics as daily drivers with race oil in them either. So sludge build up probably isn't much of a concern.
I use a standard, old dino juice 10W40 in both my 1969 302 and 1970 428 Mustangs. Last change I got Castrol at my local Walmart. I also add some of the zinc treatments out there. My local O'Reilly even carries the zinc now. I probably don't have to even do that as I'm not pulling trailers or driving with high engine loads when these old cars parts were made to have zinc in the lubricants.
Any of today's oils are light years ahead of what was on the market when these old cars were built.
Ok, then what's the difference than just go ahead and buy the oil like VR1 that already has the zinc in the oil ::)
Been using VR-1 10W-30 for years in my 66. At each oil change I send a sample to Blackstone for analysis. The last 2 years the reports showed some element level changes, including lower zinc. I was suspicious this was due to a formulation change so this year I send a virgin sample in for VOA, suspicions were confirmed. The old formulation Zinc/Phosphorus levels were ~1400/1300ppm, new levels are ~1100/1000ppm. The new formulation also has an increase in anti-wear agents molybdenum and titanium (which previously=0).
Don't believe this means anything as far as oil quality, just a slight difference in anti-wear agents. This info is NOT reflected in the current Valvoline online documentation.
Quote from: s2ms on August 14, 2020, 07:50:54 PM
Been using VR-1 10W-30 for years in my 66. At each oil change I send a sample to Blackstone for analysis. The last 2 years the reports showed some element level changes, including lower zinc. I was suspicious this was due to a formulation change so this year I send a virgin sample in for VOA, suspicions were confirmed. The old formulation Zinc/Phosphorus levels were ~1400/1300ppm, new levels are ~1100/1000ppm. The new formulation also has an increase in anti-wear agents molybdenum and titanium (which previously=0).
Don't believe this means anything as far as oil quality, just a slight difference in anti-wear agents. This info is NOT reflected in the current Valvoline online documentation.
I read vr1 went down on zddp and now supposedly it's 1400 ppm again, when did you have it tested ? - I trust Blackstone more then Valvoline on line.
Quote from: SChatman on August 13, 2020, 10:22:23 AM
What's the consensus for engine oil? My engine builder says Valvoline VR1 20W-50 Racing oil, I asked why and he says he's Just always used it. Also what about break in oil? The engine has a new cam and the valvoline jug says it's a High Zinc formula, the builder says it's fine but I have a knowledgeable friend that says break in oil is the way to go.
Any thoughts?
If it's a new engine with a flat tappet cam I would used comp cams break in oil. It's the best oil for flat tappet cams.
Quote from: 69mach351w on August 14, 2020, 03:17:34 PM
Quote from: rhjanes on August 14, 2020, 10:14:15 AM
Racing oils are a trade off (like everything is). They typically don't have much detergent in them. Racers change their oil a LOT! But then we are probably not driving these classics as daily drivers with race oil in them either. So sludge build up probably isn't much of a concern.
I use a standard, old dino juice 10W40 in both my 1969 302 and 1970 428 Mustangs. Last change I got Castrol at my local Walmart. I also add some of the zinc treatments out there. My local O'Reilly even carries the zinc now. I probably don't have to even do that as I'm not pulling trailers or driving with high engine loads when these old cars parts were made to have zinc in the lubricants.
Any of today's oils are light years ahead of what was on the market when these old cars were built.
Ok, then what's the difference than just go ahead and buy the oil like VR1 that already has the zinc in the oil ::)
They typically don't have much detergent in them. <<<< Because I'm not aware of a additive to add Detergent. ::) Zinc, yes. Detergent, no. So I choose to buy 10W40, dino, with detergent and add the zinc.
Quote from: 427hunter on August 14, 2020, 09:15:14 PM
I read vr1 went down on zddp and now supposedly it's 1400 ppm again, when did you have it tested ? - I trust Blackstone more then Valvoline on line.
Had it tested in June, from a fresh bottle just purchased, report below...
Quote from: s2ms on August 15, 2020, 01:38:15 AM
Quote from: 427hunter on August 14, 2020, 09:15:14 PM
I read vr1 went down on zddp and now supposedly it's 1400 ppm again, when did you have it tested ? - I trust Blackstone more then Valvoline on line.
Had it tested in June, from a fresh bottle just purchased, report below...
Thanks!
It's sad they are almost down to the 800 ppm from the early 90's.
Here you go world class oil from a world class company
The first and only truly synthetic oil
No need to add any additives
Everyone has an opinion on which oil to run. I've gathered input from a chemical engineer, and a respected high-end engine builder to form my opinions.
Here is what I learned:
1) Adding zinc manually to oil is not as effective as when it is added during the refining process since it is done at the higher temperatures, and bonds better at the molecular level.
2) The viscosity needed depends heavily on what the main and crank bearing clearances are on the individual engine.
I run the Lucas Hot Rod oil because it has 2100 ppm zinc, which is high. Also, they use additives from their marine oils to reduce rust forming on the parts when the engine does not get started for long periods. My engine builder recommended it.
Quote from: FL SAAC on August 15, 2020, 08:32:23 AM
Here you go world class oil from a world class company
The first and only truly synthetic oil
No need to add any additives
The charts are meaningless - VR1 online chart said 1400 ppm the posted Blackstone test shows 1080 ppm.
@rhjanes
Not dismissing your word at all at previous replies. Like others have stated, it really comes down to personal preference.
But, read close to the bottom of attached under Specifications and see where VR1 does have detergent and also Zinc/Phosphorus in the oil ;)
I've been using VR1 20W-50 in both my 69 Mach 351(w/roller lifters and rockers) and my standard build 289(w/flat tappet cam) in my 67 coupe.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-vr1-racing-20w-50-conventional-motor-oil-1-quart-vv211/8020086-P?searchTerm=valvoline%20vr1
Quote from: 69mach351w on August 16, 2020, 05:48:08 PM
@rhjanes
Not dismissing your word at all at previous replies. Like others have stated, it really comes down to personal preference. agree
But, read close to the bottom of attached under Specifications and see where VR1 does have detergent and also Zinc/Phosphorus in the oil ;) Those charts were posted after my first post. Intriguing chart. I like Valvoline products. NAPA house brand is also Valvoline. I was using their 10W40. Also interested in the Lucas for Muscle Cars and also Mobil 1. Not sure about using a full synth in my old cars however.
I've been using VR1 20W-50 in both my 69 Mach 351(w/roller lifters and rockers) and my standard build 289(w/flat tappet cam) in my 67 coupe.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-vr1-racing-20w-50-conventional-motor-oil-1-quart-vv211/8020086-P?searchTerm=valvoline%20vr1
Was the VR 1 Blackstone tested black bottle or silver bottle? I spoke to Valvoline and they say they have not reduced the ZDDP since 2004. But that's for the silver bottle stuff.
Quote from: rkm on August 18, 2020, 06:18:15 PM
Was the VR 1 Blackstone tested black bottle or silver bottle? I spoke to Valvoline and they say they have not reduced the ZDDP since 2004. But that's for the silver bottle stuff.
Silver bottle. Not sure why Valvoline doesn't update their online info but after two oil analyses and a VOA the test results show the formulation has clearly changed.
Hey everybody, I just found out this whole discussion is moot, when I read the cam information sheet from the grinder he says VR-1 20W 50 or warranty is void! Sorry everyone.
kool
Your foot is nailed to the floor, so to speak, at least until the warranty is done. Regardless, here are the results of some research I did on the subject. The objective was what ??w40 oil had the best ZDDP values. Most motor oils today are 800ppm and less. The manufacturers argue that the oils are so much better today you don't need as much ZDDP. Okay said I and promptly starting looking.
Red line synthetic motorcycle oil (my choice) 10w40 zinc=2125ppm,phophorus=2100ppm,molybenum=425ppm.
Mobile One Racing 4T 10w40 (ZDDP=1700)
Royal Purple XPR 10w40 (ZDDP=1500-1600ppm)
Mobile 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40 (ZDDP=1300)
Mobile 1 Formula M 5W40 (ZDDP=1100)
FYI just 1 of many articles available
What is the Best Synthetic Oil? - Best Synthetic Oil Guide
http://bestsyntheticoilguide.com/synthetic/best-synthetic-oil/