x on the frame by the 3 steering box bolts, Some 65s I see at conventions have the dk up higher on the radiator support. When was the change made on the assy. line?
Quote from: tomhawk on August 13, 2020, 11:02:22 PM
Found some old photos of 045 during resto hard to see from the pics but on the front frame section is d k k then in the other pic is the x on the frame by the 3 steering box bolts, Some 65s I see at conventions have the dk up higher on the radiator support.
Marking such as this (the D's and K's on the front cross member) and others varied depended on the worker assigned to the task (typically the same guy every shift) and the shift. The X on the drivers side frame was pretty consistent no matter the shift. Not allot of options with that one.
If your seeing markers like letters or codes higher on the radiator support (visible over the black) they have been incorrectly applied.
Always good to seek out original unrestored cars and not concours cars in general for your research and comparison IMHO
I thought that may have been a visual thing, having the markings higher. Also when I restored the car I noticed the emblem holes on the fenders had been plug welded from behind. Car was never apart before so I know it was the original process. I guess Ford would have welded the holes because the fenders would still need painted. I dont think it had the hipo 289 holes in the fenders. Have to find my old pics. One question I have also, can A Shelby be considered correct if it has been base coat clear coated? I always used single stage, and still do.
045 had the early carpet and the vinyl strip glued to the inner rocker,
Tom hawk,
Cool car, and really neat having those factory markings.
Do make a cd of those and the entire car. Pics are cool, but actual footage is King.
About 25 years ago, I video taped one of the 65's I had, seems it was below car #140.
All original Texas car. pure red oxide underneath, original paint and a very virgin car.
Pretty sure it had all early traits and it had an unusual special plate from Shelby.
Mr Vinnie, after a few years, found paperwork that backed up all the special goodies that had been
installed at Shelby's place, not dlr.
The actual invoice ended up being the documentation.
Pretty sure a one and only
We tooth brushed every nook and highly hand cleaned it, we then videoed all the factory markings & the entire car, there were a lot of markings.
car number was even written on the frame rail, yellow crayon as I recall. All was videoed
Big Jim from Wi ended up flying out and purchased it.
Give or take, about 6 years ago I received a call from the owner of it at this time.
He had the video I made, and is what he used to track me down, pretty easy actually.
Maybe Big Jim kept a copy of it, unsure?
best,
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on August 14, 2020, 06:59:18 PM
...............car number was even written on the frame rail, yellow crayon as I recall. All was videoed............
Did it look like this?
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/6-170820162243.jpeg)
Jeff,
The serial number marking was on the floor pan frame rail. I seem to think it was the drivers side.
Numbers about the same size as the ones you displayed.
There were some other markings on the rails by the a arms too.
markings on the front lower rad sup framing.
Part of a build sheet stuffed in the oval holes in the same lower rad frame piece, not from the Shelby though, for real
Dr door jam had 3 or 4
Trunk area inside had one of wheel house, as I recall.
Fender well by a arms, crayon again on the upper area, where a battery would be in the engine bay.
The hood had something on the underside too?
I will try and remember the car number, as I would be quite sure the owner has retained it.
john
045 had black floor pans. My pics arent the best but looks like on the left rail I can see 321 and other marks on the right looks like maybe 2 B.
tomhawk,
Film and document all.
John
Quote from: tomhawk on August 16, 2020, 09:34:36 AM
045 had black floor pans. My pics arent the best but looks like on the left rail I can see 321 and other marks on the right looks like maybe 2 B.
We would sort of predict or expect to find a very dark gray/black from the firewall rearward given when you car was likely at San Jose. But always good to confirm another
The forward frame rail numbers like I posted identified the hook (different on both sides) that the fender for that particular car hug from. No letters were used in the pattern/reoccurring set of numbers and only certain numbers were used for the pattern . Quickly applied hand writing may explain some of the results
Jeff,
Being an old dog, now that you mention it, I have never seen anything but numbers scribbled on any Mustangs or Shelby's.
tomhawk, could 2 B possibly be 28 ?
Respectfully,
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on August 16, 2020, 03:17:44 PM
Jeff,
Being an old dog, now that you mention it, I have never seen anything but numbers scribbled on any Mustangs or Shelby's.
tomhawk, could 2 B possibly be 28 ?
More likely IMHO a misshaped "3" since "8" were not a number that was used as part of the ID numbering on the hooks
Just like the "X" on the drivers side frame rail to indicate the tightening/torquing of the steering box bolts sloppy is not unusual. Often find only a single line, a "T" or inverted "T" when that worker or one of the other two weren't careful
Got the magnifying glass out. Looks like a 3.
tomhawk,
excellent work.
Might be nice if the club started a topic area, which could be used for restores.
Little verbiage, but lots of detailed pics of what real original cars have.
Original meaning , just that.
Shots like Bob Perkins has, or yours tomhawk, JD the same.
I wished that I had a copy of that old video tape from the 90's/
Respectfully,
John
john, Thanks for the kind words.
Quote from: tomhawk on August 16, 2020, 06:46:51 PM
Got the magnifying glass out. Looks like a 3. Also going back to the front frame markings. The k on the driver side could even be an R.
Given the hundred or more that we've documented (same plant and year) real confident it's a poorly applied "K" Sometimes you get all "K's' and sometimes they are all bunched on one end or the other of the front cross member. Currently have about 10k pictures of paint marks but we (the community) often are concerned at posting since so many take the easy route and just copy what every is posted or seen in magazines - you remember those :) Often with little regards to where or when their car or the car with the marks was built at.
Document and return only what was original on your car is the safest route and you will not lead others astray either ;)
Jeff,
I see your point.
That is why I have continued to request tomhawk to video all he finds.
Patina and surrounding age can not be disputed then.
A picture is neat, but can be argued.
Why argue, when a movie shows all detail?
I still do not recall seeing any letters, but it has been 26 years since I dove into paint dabs and crayon marks.
I trust what you say Jeff.
It would be nice to figure out a way to keep the pictures and docs accumulated safe, but yet have it where a Shelby owner can verify to one specific designated person, >>>> WHAT they find, turn it in, and then be advised if there is any hocus pocus, and yet further the base of other Shelby markings?
Does that make sense?
Kind of like, give me the unit cons number, and we can tell you if it matches the Shelby number provided ?
Respectfully,
John
I guess I wasnt thinking about monkey see monkey do when I posted the pics.
Quote from: J_Speegle on August 16, 2020, 11:43:19 PM
Quote from: tomhawk on August 16, 2020, 06:46:51 PM
Got the magnifying glass out. Looks like a 3. Also going back to the front frame markings. The k on the driver side could even be an R.
Given the hundred or more that we've documented (same plant and year) real confident it's a poorly applied "K" Sometimes you get all "K's' and sometimes they are all bunched on one end or the other of the front cross member. Currently have about 10k pictures of paint marks but we (the community) often are concerned at posting since so many take the easy route and just copy what every is posted or seen in magazines - you remember those :) Often with little regards to where or when their car or the car with the marks was built at.
Document and return only what was original on your car is the safest route and you will not lead others astray either ;)
+1 what he said . Jeff is doing fine no need for me to butt in.
will delete the pics
I deleted the markings info.
My posts are not meant to discourage any sharing and or learning from one another. Less and less original untouched cars everyday. Just offering that it's a two edge sword with benefits and negatives at the same time when we post publically.
The challenge is how to collect and share while minimizing the possible misuse. As far as I know there is no perfect answer or solution. Was bad enough when we only had shows and magazines. The internet has at least, doubled or tripled the affects IMHO.
Often the marks fall into the "commonly seen/found" and those less often or never recorded before. Many of the common ones, such as the fender numbers or the DSO (speaking of 65-6 San Jose built cars) have been discussed many times. If they show up on other cars (years or plants) they are often called out and in show situations deducted for.
For the common marks I sometimes will post an example as I did earlier in this thread. The original picture I posted was not a typical marking but chosen since we were discussing the possibility of a 6 digit number was applied to a frame rail. Have changed that picture to illustrate a more commonly found pattern with a dash or space between the first and second group of numbers as found on the hooks.