SAAC Forum

The Cars => 1966 Shelby GT350/GT350H => Topic started by: 427hunter on September 10, 2020, 10:05:54 PM

Title: date code on block
Post by: 427hunter on September 10, 2020, 10:05:54 PM
Hi, what's the usual lead time on block casting dates to vehicle order date?
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: J_Speegle on September 10, 2020, 10:59:39 PM
Never heard of anyone comparing order date and engine/block casting date. Are 66 order dates available for every car somewhere?
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: 427hunter on September 10, 2020, 11:49:57 PM
Yes, 66 cars show order date and delivery.
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: J_Speegle on September 11, 2020, 04:09:21 AM
Yes, 66 cars show order date and delivery.

Need to read that Registry more completely.. As mentioned never compared or added order date to my spread sheets so I've not compared those dates.
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: gt350hr on September 11, 2020, 11:14:06 AM
 On SAI cars IMPE it's one to two months between engine casting dates and vehicle assembly date at San Jose. SAI build dates are all over the place and we all know no attention was paid to Ford vin sequences versus SAI vins.
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: 427hunter on September 11, 2020, 12:03:11 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: camp upshur on September 12, 2020, 11:44:06 AM
This may be the most complicated simple question ever asked!
The short answer is: SAIís use of the term Ďorderí date. SAI seemingly used that date to suggest when a car was ordered by a customer (usually a dealer). That date often times was months after the car was completed at SAI and completely unrelated the carís Ford or SAI build date.
The long answer is: for instance on my 65 the block was cast:5D19. The engine was assembled:5D28 in Cleveland.
The cars sheet metal is all 2/3 week April and arrived at the airport on 5/09. This would suggest that the car had been completed and they were awaiting engines, especially since 5/09 is apparently the largest single shipment of Mustangs to SAI (38) spanning 5S229-5S375. These 38 sequential Fords entered work immediately (5/10) and were then interspersed with another 108 other Mustangs as 5S375 entered work on 6/03.
The real delamination of Ďorderí date to block casting number begins here. In cases such as mine, which is not atypical, the car was an HPM demo and was not sold for months. Itís order date bore no relationship to itís block casting date.
Hope this helps.
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: Bob Gaines on September 12, 2020, 12:30:37 PM
This may be the most complicated simple question ever asked!
The short answer is: SAIís use of the term Ďorderí date. SAI seemingly used that date to suggest when a car was ordered by a customer (usually a dealer). That date often times was months after the car was completed at SAI and completely unrelated the carís Ford or SAI build date.
The long answer is: for instance on my 65 the block was cast:5D19. The engine was assembled:5D28 in Cleveland.
The cars sheet metal is all 2/3 week April and arrived at the airport on 5/09. This would suggest that the car had been completed and they were awaiting engines, especially since 5/09 is apparently the largest single shipment of Mustangs to SAI (38) spanning 5S229-5S375. These 38 sequential Fords entered work immediately (5/10) and were then interspersed with another 108 other Mustangs as 5S375 entered work on 6/03.
The real delamination of Ďorderí date to block casting number begins here. In cases such as mine, which is not atypical, the car was an HPM demo and was not sold for months. Itís order date bore no relationship to itís block casting date.
Hope this helps.
Cars were built at SJ plant and had engines installed there not at SA. Ford wouldn't build the chassis unless engines were on hand to install in them. I have never heard tell of a holding area for chassis's built at SJ waiting for engines . Even the R models with special race prepared engines came to SA as running driving car but with stock K engines. Shelby's were not typically special ordered in the later years let alone 65 when they were all virtually the same. I concur that the cars were built on speculation. When a dealer order came in it was typically filled with a car already built.  If there was any relevance between order and engine casting or assembly date it would have to be with the day SA placed the order to Ford and not any kind of dealer order which would most likely be a time way after the fact.
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: camp upshur on September 12, 2020, 01:05:05 PM
The engines were assembled at Cleveland as mentioned, trained to Milpitas. Similar to the sheet metal. The cars, roller and drivetrain were assembled at the San Jose plant and trucked to SAI. I have not heard nor not heard of a holding area (?).
However I do know that 38 cars arrived in one day, which was statistically singular, with the dated components as noted. McNamaraís protťgťs were efficient, however I remain impressed, logistically, that an engine assembled on the 28th In Ohio, trained, accepted, sorted, installed, thence trucked was on property at LAX on the 9th.
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: 427hunter on September 12, 2020, 01:52:07 PM
Okay maybe a better way to do it  - lets try and figure out the earliest known non carry over block casting date for a 66 and the latest. 
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: J_Speegle on September 12, 2020, 02:09:03 PM
The long answer is: for instance on my 65 the block was cast:5D19. The engine was assembled:5D28 in Cleveland.


The date you show in the picture is a date showing when the block was machined not when it was assembled

.........The cars sheet metal is all 2/3 week April and arrived at the airport on 5/09. ..........

Sheet metal arrived by train after passing through Pittsburg Ca where is arrived first and was redirected to the Milpitas plant


This would suggest that the car had been completed and they were awaiting engines, especially since 5/09 is apparently the largest single shipment of Mustangs to SAI (38) spanning 5S229-5S375. These 38 sequential Fords entered work immediately (5/10) and were then interspersed with another 108 other Mustangs as 5S375 entered work on 6/03.........

This would suggest that cars were built in sequential order which does not appear to be how they were assembled according to workers and based on the typical practices of all the plants. Holding and storing half finished cars would have been problematic due to space issues. Makes more sense IMHO that the cars were completed with engines and held in the lot until they had the number of cars for the shipment just as they would for any other customer (taxi's trunks, regions)
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: s2ms on September 12, 2020, 08:58:24 PM
Some, maybe most, 66's have an order date listed in the Registry, but some do not. What document is the source of the order date?
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: GT350Lad on September 13, 2020, 08:18:08 AM
Some, maybe most, 66's have an order date listed in the Registry, but some do not. What document is the source of the order date?

Isnít the order date based on the request/order form that SA received from the dealer? I have a copy that I got from Howard.
Correct me if I am way off
Cheers
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: 6T6/7 on September 14, 2020, 12:32:47 AM
Interestingly, the '65 registry has a different set of milestones: "date recieved at SA", "date work started ", "date work finished", "shipped", but no "date ordered".  Maybe things were handled/documented differently between the two years.
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: 6R07mi on September 17, 2020, 04:38:19 PM
My 66 SJ built car has Dearborn stamped unitized body panels and a Woodhaven MI stamping plant hood,
these are all much earlier dated panels ( Aug 65 ), and would have been shipped to SJ as various loose parts.

Cleveland would cast the block & heads ( my casting date late Oct 65 ) and then assemble the engine ( mine Nov 4, 65 ), the stamped date & shift ID on the oil pan rail face.

SJ then schedules the body to be bucked and all the panels welded into the unitized "chassis"

Since we don't have actual build date data for 65 & 66 all we have is the "scheduled" date from the door tag on non-Shelbys, but the general pattern would apply for SAI cars also.

regards,
jp
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: S7MS427 on September 18, 2020, 07:33:30 AM
Cleveland would cast the block & heads ( my casting date late Oct 65 ) and then assemble the engine ( mine Nov 4, 65 ), the stamped date & shift ID on the oil pan rail face.

Interesting.  I know where to find the assembly date (mine is 5L3, one day ahead of yours) but where is the shift ID located?
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: J_Speegle on September 18, 2020, 02:06:42 PM
Interesting.  I know where to find the assembly date (mine is 5L3, one day ahead of yours) but where is the shift ID located?

At the end /included in the machined date on the oil pan rail

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/6-180920140605.jpeg)
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: 6S1568 on September 18, 2020, 07:12:16 PM
So the letter "B" at the end of each of these examples is an indicator of the work shift in which the machine work on the block was completed, and not an inspectors mark. Correct?

6 A 26 B
and
5 D 28 B

Thanks
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: J_Speegle on September 18, 2020, 07:26:47 PM
So the letter "B" at the end of each of these examples is an indicator of the work shift in which the machine work on the block was completed, and not an inspectors mark. Correct?

6 A 26 B   and   5 D 28 B

Believe that is the current thought. Only finding A's and B's so far

There are a fair share of other numbers. letters and symbols on the rail also. Those may indicate checks, confirmations and inspections of the block
Title: Re: date code on block
Post by: S7MS427 on September 20, 2020, 12:33:41 PM
Only finding A's and B's so far
I'm guessing that A would be 1st shift and B 2nd shift?