I appreciate answers to this question...thanks, Ron Miller
What stamp do you mean? Date?
Cheers
They were supposed to be VIN stamped per federal law. I believe the law went into effect January 1, 1964. At the time all 4 speed transmissions were to be VIN stamped due to theft and pawn shops / junk yards / speed shops acting as fences.
They didn't have a Vin stamping but they have casting numbers and date of assembly stamped onto one of the flanges.
My understanding is that San Jose K codes with 4 speeds (which became 66 Shelby GT350s), almost always had the Ford vin stamped on a boss on the bottom side of the transmission.
The k-code Mustangs with the close ratio Toploaders were stamped with VIN. AFAIK, the k-code GT350's with the T10's were not. It has been discussed before as well and I have never seen a GT350 T10 with a VIN stamp. Not sure why. I am not sure on the C4 automatics, but I don't think they were VIN stamped either. The 66 HiPo C4 I have is not VIN stamped.
Cory
Quote from: 6s1640 on November 22, 2020, 09:58:26 PM
The k-code Mustangs with the close ratio Toploaders were stamped with VIN. AFAIK, the k-code GT350's with the T10's were not. Not sure why. I am not sure on the C4 automatics, but I don't think they were VIN stamped either. The 66 HiPo C4 I have is not VIN stamped.
Cory
I agree with Cory on the 66/ 65 GT350 T10's ,no VIN stamped. The 66 G350 C4 wasn't stamped ether. Best you can hope for is date codes on components to determine if appropriate for car.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 22, 2020, 10:15:51 PM
Quote from: 6s1640 on November 22, 2020, 09:58:26 PM
The k-code Mustangs with the close ratio Toploaders were stamped with VIN. AFAIK, the k-code GT350's with the T10's were not. Not sure why. I am not sure on the C4 automatics, but I don't think they were VIN stamped either. The 66 HiPo C4 I have is not VIN stamped.
Cory
I agree with Cory on the 66/ 65 GT350 T10's ,no VIN stamped. The 66 G350 C4 wasn't stamped ether. Best you can hope for is date codes on components to determine if appropriate for car.
Hi Bob,
Any guesses why the GT350 tranny's were not VIN stamped?
Take care
Cory
Quote from: 6s1640 on November 22, 2020, 10:18:51 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 22, 2020, 10:15:51 PM
Quote from: 6s1640 on November 22, 2020, 09:58:26 PM
The k-code Mustangs with the close ratio Toploaders were stamped with VIN. AFAIK, the k-code GT350's with the T10's were not. Not sure why. I am not sure on the C4 automatics, but I don't think they were VIN stamped either. The 66 HiPo C4 I have is not VIN stamped.
Cory
I agree with Cory on the 66/ 65 GT350 T10's ,no VIN stamped. The 66 G350 C4 wasn't stamped ether. Best you can hope for is date codes on components to determine if appropriate for car.
Hi Bob,
Any guesses why the GT350 tranny's were not VIN stamped?
Take care
Cory
Sorry,that I can't offer any more insight other then the obvious one that they thought the engines being vin stamped in this particular instance was enough at the time. I suppose that will have to do until more compelling information suggests otherwise.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on November 22, 2020, 06:42:34 PM
They were supposed to be VIN stamped per federal law. I believe the law went into effect January 1, 1964. At the time all 4 speed transmissions were to be VIN stamped due to theft and pawn shops / junk yards / speed shops acting as fences.
+1
Quote from: hertz350 on November 22, 2020, 07:28:39 PM
My understanding is that San Jose K codes with 4 speeds (which became 66 Shelby GT350s), almost always had the Ford vin stamped on a boss on the bottom side of the transmission.
+1
Quote from: stephen_becker on November 22, 2020, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: hertz350 on November 22, 2020, 07:28:39 PM
My understanding is that San Jose K codes with 4 speeds (which became 66 Shelby GT350s), almost always had the Ford vin stamped on a boss on the bottom side of the transmission.
+1
Stephen,where exactly(what location) have you seen a vin stamp on a 65/66 Shelby aluminum case transmission? For the life of me I am at a loss to understand what boss on the bottom of the T10 transmission it would be stamped at that you are referring to . A toploader yes that is easy. A T10 I would need help understanding where that boss may be.
Pretty sure we discussed this in the past on crashed forum 1.0. I'm not aware of evidence that any of the 65-66 GT350 T-10M versions (aluminum/aluminum, aluminum/cast iron, cast iron/cast iron) were VIN stamped.
Quote from: s2ms on November 23, 2020, 12:00:34 AM
Pretty sure we discussed this in the past on crashed forum 1.0. I'm not aware of evidence that any of the 65-66 GT350 T-10M versions (aluminum/aluminum, aluminum/cast iron, cast iron/cast iron) were VIN stamped.
And the T10M1's did not come with a tag, but will have an assembly date that should precede the cars San Jose assembly date. The HiPo C4's did come with a tag and date code, also preceding the San Jose assembly date.
Cory
and not all the Aluminium T10 on 1965 GT350 had an assembly date code ...
I've had about 30-40 66 GT 350's with a 4 speed...
I've never found a VIN on the transmission....
The federal law requiring automatic transmissions to be VIN stamped did not take effect until January 1, 1968. In general all FOMOCO products are VIN stamped on the transmission from the beginning of 1968 model year. None were stamped prior to 1968 model year. Only 4 speed transmissions and high performance engine assemblies were required prior to January 1, 1968.
Quote from: 6s1640 on November 23, 2020, 12:48:52 AM
Quote from: s2ms on November 23, 2020, 12:00:34 AM
Pretty sure we discussed this in the past on crashed forum 1.0. I'm not aware of evidence that any of the 65-66 GT350 T-10M versions (aluminum/aluminum, aluminum/cast iron, cast iron/cast iron) were VIN stamped.
And the T10M1's did not come with a tag, but will have an assembly date that should precede the cars San Jose assembly date. The HiPo C4's did come with a tag and date code, also preceding the San Jose assembly date.
Cory
Quote from: Royce Peterson on November 23, 2020, 10:47:49 AM
The federal law requiring automatic transmissions to be VIN stamped did not take effect until January 1, 1968. In general all FOMOCO products are VIN stamped on the transmission from the beginning of 1968 model year. None were stamped prior to 1968 model year. Only 4 speed transmissions and high performance engine assemblies were required prior to January 1, 1968.
Quote from: 6s1640 on November 23, 2020, 12:48:52 AM
Quote from: s2ms on November 23, 2020, 12:00:34 AM
Pretty sure we discussed this in the past on crashed forum 1.0. I'm not aware of evidence that any of the 65-66 GT350 T-10M versions (aluminum/aluminum, aluminum/cast iron, cast iron/cast iron) were VIN stamped.
And the T10M1's did not come with a tag, but will have an assembly date that should precede the cars San Jose assembly date. The HiPo C4's did come with a tag and date code, also preceding the San Jose assembly date.
Cory
Royce, 67 427 Fairlane's were stamped with the Vin on the bottom embossment of the top loader.
Quote from: Greg on November 23, 2020, 10:54:44 AM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on November 23, 2020, 10:47:49 AM
The federal law requiring automatic transmissions to be VIN stamped did not take effect until January 1, 1968. In general all FOMOCO products are VIN stamped on the transmission from the beginning of 1968 model year. None were stamped prior to 1968 model year. Only 4 speed transmissions and high performance engine assemblies were required prior to January 1, 1968.
Quote from: 6s1640 on November 23, 2020, 12:48:52 AM
Quote from: s2ms on November 23, 2020, 12:00:34 AM
Pretty sure we discussed this in the past on crashed forum 1.0. I'm not aware of evidence that any of the 65-66 GT350 T-10M versions (aluminum/aluminum, aluminum/cast iron, cast iron/cast iron) were VIN stamped.
And the T10M1's did not come with a tag, but will have an assembly date that should precede the cars San Jose assembly date. The HiPo C4's did come with a tag and date code, also preceding the San Jose assembly date.
Cory
Royce, 67 427 Fairlane's were stamped with the Vin on the bottom embossment of the top loader.
Same with '67 GT500s must be the High Performance Engine assembly clause ? Only the transmission tho, not the engine.
It's just another case of Shelby doing what they did - Federal law notwithstanding.
Quote from: capecodmustang.com on November 23, 2020, 07:47:45 AM
I've had about 30-40 66 GT 350's with a 4 speed...
I've never found a VIN on the transmission....
So it seems that it is easy to come up with examples of original drivetrain 65/66 4 speed trains WITHOUT a vin stamp. Even one contradicts the supposed "everyone is supposed to " federal law.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on November 23, 2020, 11:33:33 AM
It's just another case of Shelby doing what they did - Federal law notwithstanding.
Royce ,Shelby was not responsible 65-70 with determining which engine or trans got vin stamped. The Ford assemblyline where the car was initially built was responsible for whether a engine or trans got stamped or not.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 23, 2020, 11:37:33 AM
Quote from: capecodmustang.com on November 23, 2020, 07:47:45 AM
I've had about 30-40 66 GT 350's with a 4 speed...
I've never found a VIN on the transmission....
So it seems that it is easy to come up with examples of original drivetrain 65/66 4 speed trains WITHOUT a vin stamp. Even one contradicts the supposed "everyone is supposed to " federal law.
Well Bob...
We do know how organized our federal government is.....
Quote from: capecodmustang.com on November 23, 2020, 07:47:45 AM
I've had about 30-40 66 GT 350's with a 4 speed...
I've never found a VIN on the transmission....
Quick question, how many had un-stamped blocks?
Since engine vin stamps were not a federal requirement till the 1968 FMVSS act did you find any born in k code drivelines with no vin?
66 Shelby's should have a VIN on the block...
I've yet to see an original engine one without a VIN..
67 GT 350's?
That's another story....
I had a very original 66 K Code FB a couple years ago.
Documents....owner history...original paint....etc etc..
It had no VIN on the block..
However....
It was built in Metuchen and after some research I discovered many NJ cars did not have VIN's on their blocks.
No vins on any '65 or 66 aluminum OR iron transmissions. THE reason was they were NOT standard issue T-10 transmissions and FORD did NOT have repair parts for them! A Ford dealer HAD to go to SAI for repair parts. Shelby specific parts did not enter Ford's parts system until AFTER SAI was assumed by Ford after '67. No mystery here .
Randy
Just to add to the discussion....
This T-10 currently on ebay does have a VIN stamp so "assuming" it is factory, does show a location where a T-10 "could be" VIN stamped....https://www.ebay.com/itm/233790842662 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/233790842662)
The seller has the tranny totally misidentified as "1965 66 67 SHELBY BIG BLOCK T-10 4 SP TRANSMISSION Rebuilt High Nickel NOS Gears". Interesting that the VIN decodes being for a 1965 Mercury Comet Cyclone 2-door, A-code 289, built at Los Angeles. Don't know why that car would have a VIN stamped tranny to begin with? Probably, as Randy just pointed out, this IS a standard T-10? Were all standard T-10's stamped?
Quote from: s2ms on November 23, 2020, 01:36:30 PM
Just to add to the discussion....
This T-10 currently on ebay does have a VIN stamp so "assuming" it is factory, does show a location where a T-10 "could be" VIN stamped....https://www.ebay.com/itm/233790842662 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/233790842662)
The seller has the tranny totally misidentified as "1965 66 67 SHELBY BIG BLOCK T-10 4 SP TRANSMISSION Rebuilt High Nickel NOS Gears". Interesting that the VIN decodes being for a 1965 Mercury Comet Cyclone 2-door, A-code 289, built at Los Angeles. Don't know why that car would have a VIN stamped tranny to begin with? Probably, as Randy just pointed out, this IS a standard T-10? Were all standard T-10's stamped?
Well Stephen and his +1 is let off the hook given a least one has a stamp regardless of if a Shelby or not.
Dave and Bob,
"Regular production" four speeds ( high potential theft) , NOT three speeds WERE stamped . I currently have a K code Fairlane T-10 and several Toploaders ( pre '68) that are stamped. '67 SAI products ARE also stamped because they are "RPO" transmissions.
Randy
Quote from: 427hunter on November 23, 2020, 12:52:50 PM
........Since engine vin stamps were not a federal requirement till the 1968 FMVSS act did you find any born in k code drivelines with no vin?
The 68 requirement was different in that it covered all engines and transmissions - before that it was limited to high performance only (engines and transmissions) apparently not well monitored and as always some (like NJ examples and apparently Shelbys for some unknown reason) slipped through
Think I posted this in Forum 1.0
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/9/6-071217184027.jpeg)
The Blue 68 GT-E 427 I had, did have a serial # stamped block.
1963 ford lightweight I had, did have a stamped trans.
Have had only one 67 gt 350 that did not have a engine serial # stamped, think it was one of the grey cars I had.
John
The lightweight is odd John. I've rebuilt several and owned a few too. Never saw a vin OR a tag on one. Same for 289 Cobra transmissions.
Come on you bunch of cats and stay herded on the topic of 65/66 Shelby 4sp trans stamps. ;)
Your right Bob !
I have had a 65 K fastback, plain jane, top loader stamped on small Bottom case tab, engine above the oil pan rail as commonly found.
I have never ran into a serial number stamped Borg Warner box, cast or aluminum.
Not sure about the ac cobra.
In brief Bob : GT 350hr, 63 had last 6 number digits on top trans ear,
Quote from: J_Speegle on November 23, 2020, 02:06:09 PM
Quote from: 427hunter on November 23, 2020, 12:52:50 PM
........Since engine vin stamps were not a federal requirement till the 1968 FMVSS act did you find any born in k code drivelines with no vin?
The 68 requirement was different in that it covered all engines and transmissions - before that it was limited to high performance only (engines and transmissions) apparently not well monitored and as always some (like NJ examples and apparently Shelbys for some unknown reason) slipped through
Think I posted this in Forum 1.0
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/9/6-071217184027.jpeg)
Very interesting !
That is a real oddity. I have owned several GT-E's and still own one. All have been stamped with a partial VIN on the cylinder head. Have not seen any GT-E with a VIN stamped block. Even the Dearborn 428CJ's had the VIN stamped in the cylinder head.
Here are a couple of mine -
Quote from: Harris Speedster on November 23, 2020, 02:15:34 PM
The Blue 68 GT-E 427 I had, did have a serial # stamped block.
1963 ford lightweight I had, did have a stamped trans.
Have had only one 67 gt 350 that did not have a engine serial # stamped, think it was one of the grey cars I had.
John
Whats your point ?
My Boss 302 cars had it on the top deck of the block, by back of intake.
69 GT 350 conv had partial vin on cylinder head.
67 fairlaine lightweight, old miller car out of Oregon/Idaho, had it on the back of the block.
Trying to remember where the serial # was on the Boss 9's I had, ?
John
We were talking about T-10s IIRC.
Please stay on T10 topic. Thanks.