There was an article in The Shelby American several years ago that detailed a number of production changes that occurred during the 1967 Shelby manufacturing run. Regarding the proper configuration of the thermactor emission system for my 1967 GT500, I was told anecdotally that there were several configurations of that system during the production run. The limited photos that I have seen to date lack detail as to the exact orientation and location of the gulp valve and filter canister. The best photos I have seen are currently on eBay for item #263546802083, a 1967 GT500 with thermactor in accordance with the VIN tag. This is a late production car. That being said, do the eBay photos accurately reflect the typical positioning of the gulp valve and filter canister? If not, are there any detailed photos, sketches, or drawings that depict how the set-up for the thermactor system should be for specific serial number ranges, and do they indicate such aspects as whether or not the filter canister should be attached to the shock tower?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT500/263546802083?hash=item3d5c9d0fa3:g:d0YAAOSwwB1apyQc&vxp=mtr
Here is a solid original black plate California car, it was sold new in Laguna Beach California, where it remained with the 1st owner until 2005. The second owner Pat Hoxie of Florida purchased the car in 2005 off of EBay. The car was being sold by Peterson Museum on the behalf of the original owner's widow, her husband, Lawrence Lydick, passed away 10 years earlier in 1995. Pat Hoxie meticulously maintained the car and has driven it approximately 2,000 miles during his 13 years of ownership. Mechanically the car runs out very strong. Pat thought the car to be the fastest and best driving of his vintage Shelbys, much more impressive than his 68 GT500 KR. Upon driving it myself I was quite impressed, the car is pretty original with reportedly one repaint, probably done back in the 80's. The interior is original showing the patina of being a 50+ year old. When you look at the engine compartment you see the original California smog still in place, just as it was when it left the factory assembly line in 1967. The floors are extremely solid, I took pre-clean and wiped off the 50 year old undercoat from the main section of the floor to reveal the original red oxide primer. Before Pat and I worked a trade we drilled out one of the rivets from the original Shelby tag for the first time to get the Ford VIN underneath. This is the only way to confirm the numbers match. You cannot get a Marti Report without providing both sets of numbers. The Marti Report confirms that these are a match and that the car is correct. The car was sold new at South Coast Motors in Laguna Beach California, it has 129,352 miles on it. The original owner reported that the engine was rebuilt in 1988 when the car had 122,400 miles on it, that was 30 years ago. It has been driven about 7,000 miles since. This is not a trailer queen by any means, but there is a lot of fun and enjoyment left in this vintage big block Shelby. You can enjoy it just as Pat did in its present condition or it would be a great candidate for a cosmetic restoration. I set my price at what I see people asking for tribute cars. This is the real deal with supporting documents and ownership history since new. Next to the 1965 GT350 it is probably the second most valuable of all the early Shelbys. It is the only year and last year that Shelby personally built a big block 428 with 2 x 4's GT500. The 68 thru 70 models were built at Ford with only a single 4 barrel. The car comes with its original owner's manual, sales brochure, Deluxe Marti Report, and ownership history. For more information call Don at Vantage Sportscars Cell – 407-497-2122.
I have tried to load pictures but this site still can't handle those worth a damn.
Got the two engine images from the e-pay listing 2112 posted - tried to post the two images but get a message that the upload folder is full!!
will try later...
Quote from: JD on March 30, 2018, 07:55:36 PM
Got the two engine images from the e-pay listing 2112 posted - tried to post the two images but get a message that the upload folder is full!!
will try later...
What do you need posted? The Engine pictures?
For all viewing its easy top see the dozens of details that have been changed, parts replaced, repainted (right or incorrectly ::) so just don't go copying. Same warning would be given to anything found on the internet or in magazines. Look for multiple examples from the same plant and time period as your car to get confirmation then double check again ;)
Remember that this is a pretty late automatic car.
Quote from: nightmist67 on March 30, 2018, 04:05:35 PM
............Regarding the proper configuration of the thermactor emission system for my 1967 GT500, I was told anecdotally that there were several configurations of that system during the production run.
You might want to provide your cars completion date at San Jose so we can focus on your needs or are you looking for every possible combination and change?
Quote from: nightmist67 on March 30, 2018, 04:05:35 PMThat being said, do the eBay photos accurately reflect the typical positioning of the gulp valve and filter canister?
Depends on the answer above. Does your car have the original shock towers? Are their holes for the bracket in the passenger shock towers? Many past owners have made them disappear over the years so the lack is not always proof or the truth of how it was built every time
Quote from: nightmist67 on March 30, 2018, 04:05:35 PMIf not, are there any detailed photos, sketches, or drawings that depict how the set-up for the thermactor system should be for specific serial number ranges, and do they indicate such aspects as whether or not the filter canister should be attached to the shock tower?
Nothing finished I know of. Stated one years ago (along with maybe 40 other articles) and work on it between requests for other things. Seems like its easier to deal with the details on an individual basis so far. Must be a few dozen pages long with pictures of individual parts (multiple versions in some cases) cross referencing Add/Delete change notes and factory 390 systems. The basis for the system. Most of the running changes were changes made for the Mustang that rolled over to the Shelby application
Quote from: nightmist67 on March 30, 2018, 04:05:35 PM
There was an article in The Shelby American several years ago that detailed a number of production changes that occurred during the 1967 Shelby manufacturing run. Regarding the proper configuration of the thermactor emission system for my 1967 GT500, I was told anecdotally that there were several configurations of that system during the production run. The limited photos that I have seen to date lack detail as to the exact orientation and location of the gulp valve and filter canister. The best photos I have seen are currently on eBay for item #263546802083, a 1967 GT500 with thermactor in accordance with the VIN tag. This is a late production car. That being said, do the eBay photos accurately reflect the typical positioning of the gulp valve and filter canister? If not, are there any detailed photos, sketches, or drawings that depict how the set-up for the thermactor system should be for specific serial number ranges, and do they indicate such aspects as whether or not the filter canister should be attached to the shock tower?
If you have the two holes in the shock towers for the filter canister bracket then you can be sure it was meant to be attached there . If no holes for the bracket then it will be suspended and held in place (although shaky) by the tension created by the hoses. Just to make things confusing I have seen the holes for the bracket on early and late cars and have also seen the no hole shock tower early or late.
Quote from: 2112 on March 30, 2018, 05:58:43 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT500/263546802083?hash=item3d5c9d0fa3:g:d0YAAOSwwB1apyQc&vxp=mtr
For when the link dies
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-300318222925.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-300318222946.jpeg)
For discussion
(http://i65.tinypic.com/esrb51.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/21jyc85.jpg)
Quote from: 2112 on March 30, 2018, 11:18:34 PM
For discussion
Without VINs for cars not sure how that would work. And with VINs we would simply be picking some owners car apart without their request. Not sure if that is going to make some very happy
Just a thought since I don't even comment publically on cars up for sale
Quote from: J_Speegle on March 30, 2018, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: 2112 on March 30, 2018, 11:18:34 PM
For discussion
Without VINs for cars not sure how that would work. And with VINs we would simply be picking some owners car apart without their request. Not sure if that is going to make some very happy
Just a thought since I don't even comment publically on cars up for sale
One picture is from period and the other is anonymous. Not surely how you can upset someone with that.
Wiper fluid containers give us a vague idea if they are early or later production.
Quote from: 2112 on March 30, 2018, 11:46:46 PM
One picture is from period and the other is anonymous. Not surely how you can upset someone with that.
Wiper fluid containers give us a vague idea if they are early or later production.
Since changes are often tied to specific date (example before or after 10/3) not sure how vague will work with any accuracy. Don't' want to bring up just negatives related to this effort but bad information is likely worst than no info
If it is any help in determining the emission system configuration specific to my car, it was built at San Jose 1/31/67 (low 900s Shelby serial number range) and it has the original shock towers. There are holes in the shock tower for the filter canister bracket.
Specifically, I want to know the proper locations and orientations of the gulp valve and filter canister for my car. I have seen various photos of the gulp valve oriented upright, perpendicular to the hood and parallel to the passenger side fender, and perpendicular to the hood and at an approximate 45 degree angle to the passenger side fender. With respect to the filter canister, I have seen photos of the filter canister attached to the shock tower via its bracket or simply suspended by its hoses.
#962 has a completion date of 2/2/67 SJ and there are vintage engine pics.
There are several differences however with #1183 and it's 1/26/67 SJ completion date.
Still can't post pictures this morning. If someone can link to 962's engine pics, that would be helpful.
Quote from: 67_1183 on March 31, 2018, 11:36:19 AM
#962 has a completion date of 2/2/67 SJ and there are vintage engine pics.
If someone can link to 962's engine pics, that would be helpful.
Where are they located?
Until the current issue with posting photos is resolved, they would have to be linked from a non SAAC server. Anyone with the pics and an offsite photo host should have success, otherwise we wait for the administrators.
I had been using Photobucket for this but we know what happened there.
Also, why are we acting like the Thermactor crap is some sort of freaking secret decoder ring crap?
It is the single biggest PITA about a California delivered '67. Can't there be an open discussion about getting the stuff reasonably correct without all the drama?
Is there truly embarrassment if it isn't perfect? Or a chance to make a correction? Until recently, nobody even wanted this junk on their car.
It is understandable that the knowledge of how it was done is getting rare, are we worried counterfeiters will use this secret Thermactor knowledge for nefarious purposes? Sheesh.
Quote from: 2112 on March 31, 2018, 12:14:00 PM
Also, why are we acting like the Thermactor crap is some sort of freaking secret decoder ring crap?
It is the single biggest PITA about a California delivered '67. Can't there be an open discussion about getting the stuff reasonably correct without all the drama?
Is there truly embarrassment if it isn't perfect? Or a chance to make a correction? Until recently, nobody even wanted this junk on their car.
It is understandable that the knowledge of how it was done is getting rare, are we worried counterfeiters will use this secret Thermactor knowledge for nefarious purposes? Sheesh.
LOL, that is a fact. I removed 1183's thermactor system in 1976, soon after I bought the car and changed the spark plugs the first time. Threw all the stuff in a box and fortunately kept the box.
Quote from: nightmist67 on March 31, 2018, 09:33:57 AM
If it is any help in determining the emission system configuration specific to my car, it was built at San Jose 1/31/67 (low 900s Shelby serial number range) and it has the original shock towers. There are holes in the shock tower for the filter canister bracket.
Specifically, I want to know the proper locations and orientations of the gulp valve and filter canister for my car. I have seen various photos of the gulp valve oriented upright, perpendicular to the hood and parallel to the passenger side fender, and perpendicular to the hood and at an approximate 45 degree angle to the passenger side fender.
The "angle" of the valve is controlled by the length of the hoses don't believe there is any adjustment just some using hoses other than what was original. The hose that runs from the top of the filter appears to have the biggest impact on the final resting angle and when owners/restores cut them from bulk stock I thing this is where the larger notable variations show up
Quote from: nightmist67 on March 31, 2018, 09:33:57 AMWith respect to the filter canister, I have seen photos of the filter canister attached to the shock tower via its bracket or simply suspended by its hoses.
Your car would have had the small bracket holding your filter to the passenger side shock tower with two small hex head screws and the different lower feed hose. There are at least two versions of the filter canisters and originally the top wing nut was painted with the complete filter. Something many restorers get incorrect
Easy to see these are not finished correctly or restored. They are simply takeoffs
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-310318134335.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-310318134318.jpeg)
Couple of pictures from 67-962 as requested
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-310318134234.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-310318134244.jpeg)
Quote from: 2112 on March 31, 2018, 12:14:00 PM
Also, why are we acting like the Thermactor crap is some sort of freaking secret decoder ring crap?
It is the single biggest PITA about a California delivered '67. Can't there be an open discussion about getting the stuff reasonably correct without all the drama?
Is there truly embarrassment if it isn't perfect? Or a chance to make a correction? Until recently, nobody even wanted this junk on their car.
It is understandable that the knowledge of how it was done is getting rare, are we worried counterfeiters will use this secret Thermactor knowledge for nefarious purposes? Sheesh.
Think your missing the point. Owners and builders look to this site for guidance and help and providing incorrect or inaccurate details and information does not serve that purpose. Don't see see many requests here asking for something close or just something to get by. Please don't turn this into something it is not or read into the discussion something that is not there. ::)
OP has provided some additional information and we can move forward in helping him with their need at this point, willingly and with focus. Here to help
Quote from: J_Speegle on March 31, 2018, 01:47:44 PM
Couple of pictures from 67-962 as requested
Thank you.
I thought the driver's side valve cover was supposed to have the low profile ribbed Autolite cap when on a Thermactor car? Oh, one with Autolite script on it too.
I think it obvious, this car has been molested.
Sarcasm aside, 1183's valve cover and oil fill caps match that shown on the pics of #962 with one deviation. 1183's are chrome.
Quote from: 2112 on March 31, 2018, 03:31:40 PM
I thought the driver's side valve cover was supposed to have the low profile ribbed Autolite cap when on a Thermactor car? Oh, one with Autolite script on it too.
I think it obvious, this car has been molested.
Not so obvious because I have seen a number of the thermactor GT500's with the tall painted black caps . Typically if the valve cover cap was black so was the oil fill cap. Just another example of how complicated a subject this is. People for the most part are not trying to keep information from you and others but more like as soon as you come up with a ruling on some these parts a anomaly shows up to challenge the consciences. There are a lot of different facets to the 67 GT500 smog system. The closed emissions short "cookie cutter" cap is what the system was engineered to get but that may not have happened because of supply problems at the engine plant. There were not many smog engines produced in 67 relatively speaking. Strangely the oil fill cap should be a closed emission style also for the system to be totally closed off but that is not what I have seen on an unmolested cars. I feel the picture of #962 taken in the summer of 1967 is unmolested.
Well, I did think that I read the closed "cookie cutter" cap was correct for Thermactor cars,
But comment was an attempt at sarcasm. ::)
I thought I would comment that the rounded top intake fill cap in the picture is just on of several different varieties that could have come on a 67 GT500 thermactor car . In the picture of 962 for example the rounded top cap also has 'oil' embossed in the top.
In the pictures of 962 above, is the canister free floating or was it hard mounted at an angle?
Quote from: 2112 on April 01, 2018, 12:19:09 AM
In the pictures of 962 above, is the canister free floating or was it hard mounted at an angle?
It is not hard mounted at a angle. With that said it could be that it came out of the band clamp because it looks a little different than the ones that are free floating. It is hard to say from the angle .
Quote from: 2112 on April 01, 2018, 12:19:09 AM
In the pictures of 962 above, is the canister free floating or was it hard mounted at an angle?
This is part of those twists and turns associated with the subject. Cars with thermactor with similar (read close to in number) Shelby VIN to this car are from a different order group. Looking at other cars from the same order group that I have pictures and such from have the mount attached to the shock tower which would strongly IMHO suggest that 67-962 also had the shock tower attaching point for the filter canister
The angle that the canister is sitting at in the picture is a bit odd but its interesting that it appears that someone took some electrical tape and tapped the hose to the positive battery cable possibly to keep something from rattling. Of course it appears that this would do little, since the cable itself is flexible, but someone was trying to correct or fix something and not IMHO something done at San Jose nor something seen on any other Shelby I've seen. Maybe an owner or dealer thing
From reference page of Mustangtek
(http://i65.tinypic.com/dloyyq.jpg)
(http://i65.tinypic.com/s25jk9.jpg)
From Jeff's pictures above, if the radiator is completely supported by the saddles, what are the two visible body nuts on the radiator support for? (Forgive my bad photoshop skills)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2v80acp.jpg)
Quote from: 2112 on April 01, 2018, 02:04:38 AM
From Jeff's pictures above, if the radiator is completely supported by the saddles, what are the two visible body nuts on the radiator support for? (Forgive my bad photoshop skills)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2v80acp.jpg)
Those are just the clips . They are left un used in a GT500. They are on all 67 Shelby's . Something that was used on a GT350 for the radiator.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on April 01, 2018, 02:48:49 AM
Those are just the clips . They are left un used in a GT500. They are on all 67 Shelby's . Something that was used on a GT350 for the radiator.
Thank you Bob, and Jeff for getting those pictures up today.
Quote from: 2112 on April 01, 2018, 02:00:49 AM
From reference page of Mustangtek
Number of details (both related to Thermactor and other things) appear to be "off" in those pictures when compared to regular production systems and typical practices.
Do recognize the source of the pictures as I'm sure others do.
Quote from: 2112 on April 01, 2018, 02:04:38 AM
From Jeff's pictures above, if the radiator is completely supported by the saddles, what are the two visible body nuts on the radiator support for?
There would be four of those. Something you will see in allot of applications and years. Those J clips were pretty much installed automatically on all Mustangs and in turn Shelby's and the like even if they went unused.
And of course that isn't the picture I posted ;)
Trying to get a handle on the 67 Thermactor Stuff. ???
In pictures from #962, (Ford build date: 2/2/67) in post #18. 962 doesn't appear to have the filter assembly attached to the shock tower. My car, #1352, (Ford build date: 2/2/67) has the filter mounted to the shock tower.
#962 doesn't have the cookie cutter cap on driver's side valve cover, but #1325 (Ford build date: 2/2/67) does have the cookie cutter cap, as well as my car #1352.
I guess these different caps could be explained by different build time of the engines?
Also, #962 clearly has natural finish on the check valves. I know there has been some discussion on this, some say these valves should be painted blue, others say natural. ---Interesting---
Are there any other pictures showing #962's engine from the day? Specifically, the area of the curved oil fill tube to air breather. Maybe showing an inline valve or not . From the pictures of #1325 that I have, that car had an inline check/backfire valve.
VERY INTERESTING !
Brent A
Quote from: alexgt350h on April 01, 2018, 09:05:24 PM
In pictures from #962, (Ford build date: 2/2/67) in post #18. 962 doesn't appear to have the filter assembly attached to the shock tower. My car, #1352, (Ford build date: 2/2/67) has the filter mounted to the shock tower.
Note: Just as a mention the Registry shows you car (1352) being completed on 2/1/67. But not a big deal for this discussion
The important thing in this part of the discussion is that your car would most likely be just like all the others in your order group (DSO 2555) As mentioned, it may just be this set of pictures or that the clamp has come undone and the canister slipped away from the shock tower were it was originally mounted - one reason for adding the tape from the hose to the battery cable, but other cars in your cars group (of the ones I have pictures and record of) had holes for the shock tower mounting of the canister as you found on #1352
In the pictures I have of your car before any work (if there has been any-don't have current pictures) took place, the filter was not attached to the shock tower though the screw holes appear to have been there. The bracket was missing and the canister was rotated with the hose at the pump so it had a very side ways look to it. They spin very easy but not by themselves.
Does this suggest that even though San Jose drilled the holes (as they would for a S code Mustang) was the filter not reattached to the bracket or the bracket removed from just this group of car? I don't think we can say for sure at this point.
Quote from: alexgt350h on April 01, 2018, 09:05:24 PM#962 doesn't have the cookie cutter cap on driver's side valve cover, but #1325 (Ford build date: 2/2/67) does have the cookie cutter cap, as well as my car #1352.
I guess these different caps could be explained by different build time of the engines?
In this detail, since the valve cover swap didn't happen at Ford, we look to the period at Shelby and in that case I think it might be explained by the span between the date both cars were converted at Shelby.
Quote from: alexgt350h on April 01, 2018, 09:05:24 PMAlso, #962 clearly has natural finish on the check valves. I know there has been some discussion on this, some say these valves should be painted blue, others say natural.
This appears to be a change from the engine plant and in turn as the cars were delivered from San Jose. Early pictures show and appear to show (different pictures taken of different cars at different times) unpainted drivers side check valves while later cars were finished like all the other ones installed and painted for Mustangs
Quote from: alexgt350h on April 01, 2018, 09:05:24 PMAre there any other pictures showing #962's engine from the day? Specifically, the area of the curved oil fill tube to air breather. Maybe showing an inline valve or not . From the pictures of #1325 that I have, that car had an inline check/backfire valve.
Don't know of any others showing clear pictures of the engine compartment and not enough to show the breather tube or those details.
Quote from: alexgt350h on April 01, 2018, 09:05:24 PM
Trying to get a handle on the 67 Thermactor Stuff. ???
In pictures from #962, (Ford build date: 2/2/67) in post #18. 962 doesn't appear to have the filter assembly attached to the shock tower. My car, #1352, (Ford build date: 2/2/67) has the filter mounted to the shock tower.
#962 doesn't have the cookie cutter cap on driver's side valve cover, but #1325 (Ford build date: 2/2/67) does have the cookie cutter cap, as well as my car #1352.
I guess these different caps could be explained by different build time of the engines?
Also, #962 clearly has natural finish on the check valves. I know there has been some discussion on this, some say these valves should be painted blue, others say natural. ---Interesting---
Are there any other pictures showing #962's engine from the day? Specifically, the area of the curved oil fill tube to air breather. Maybe showing an inline valve or not . From the pictures of #1325 that I have, that car had an inline check/backfire valve.
VERY INTERESTING !
Brent A
Some of the issues you brought up have been covered in previous posts of this thread.
It might be helpful to know which type/engineering number/part number smog pump and gulp valve were typically used on these cars. I have seen smog pumps and gulp valves with variations on the number and location of ports on these components, which I would conclude can affect the connecting hoses used and the resultant orientation of the thermactor system on the passenger side of the engine bay. Photos, drawings or sketches of these components or their details would clarify how the installed system should typically appear.
Quote from: nightmist67 on July 21, 2018, 04:50:19 PM
It might be helpful to know which type/engineering number/part number smog pump and gulp valve were typically used on these cars. I have seen smog pumps and gulp valves with variations on the number and location of ports on these components, which I would conclude can affect the connecting hoses used and the resultant orientation of the thermactor system on the passenger side of the engine bay. Photos, drawings or sketches of these components or their details would clarify how the installed system should typically appear.
Some of the routing IMHO is a change in mounting of parts (changes made in parts to accomplish this) rather than a change as a result of changing parts by Ford at San Jose on Mustangs that had a ripple affect on Shelby's in turn
Some of that data is listed in the add/delete sheets (valves and pumps) so one would need to focus IMHO on what DSO group the car was in. The challenge is that we don't have clear copies (that I'm aware of) of all groups forms. Don't think the identified pump changed nor the anti-back fire valve though there were some production periods where pumps were substituted in place of the identified pumps. Guess it depends on how exacting you want your car built to.
Not sure if part numbers will do much good for some parts since new original parts are not very available 50 years later.
For the two parts you mentioned add/delete sheets show
- Pump identified as C7OE-9A486-A which replaced C6OE-9A486-D (on paper)
- Anti-back fire valve of C6OE-9B289-C which replaced C6AE-9B289-E (on paper)
So basically you have them swapping out Mustang FE parts for 289 Mustang parts