I have two right side valve covers- there is a difference in the PCV opening- these are for 5s296-
Both have the buddy bar name cast on the inside-
Which is correct?
Any idea why different?
Thanks ,
Dave
Hi Dave,
On the cover with grommet, what does it look like under the grommet. Based on the image, I am going to hazard to guess the cover with grommet is actually the driver side with the oil fill tube. I will bet the tube was damaged and removed and the grommet was installed. See attached image. Take the grommet out and lets see what you got for further review.
Or does in look more like the second image with grommet below? This version does not match either of yours.
The differences might be early versus late. I did not know there there were variations in the open letter valve covers.
Cory
Thanks Cory-
I'll get a picture of the other side tomorrow when back at shop..
Dan Case has done a study on the variations of the open letter covers. There are several variations that he has noted. I see some of the differences he has discovered already.
Randy
A picture with the PCV grommet removed/
Quote from: gt350hr on February 25, 2021, 10:54:17 AM
Dan Case has done a study on the variations of the open letter covers. There are several variations that he has noted. I see some of the differences he has discovered already.
Randy
During the year 1965 production of this style of cover pairs, for engines with oil fill in and PCV from rocker arm covers, changed from being based on a single wooden master in use since the summer of 1963 to a whole family of wooden masters. Changes in wooden patterns and led to changes in machining required. Oil fill tubes changed in material started with and formed in features to facilitate locking them into covers and holding oil fill caps; said another way instead of the one tube version used most of 1963 and all of 1964 a whole family of new tube variants was added. Between summer 1963 and May 31, 1965 there were at least six (6) different sets of engineering numbers for assemblies.
Beyond that big picture it gets really complicated in part because owners have been removing, adding back, and or swapping around used and new old stock service replacement covers since the 1970s. I try to study how cars were delivered new to dealers and what Ford Motor Company had Dearborn Steel Tubing Company pack in service kits. (Why? Because "kits" assembled by DST were not usually exactly like what Shelby American was using in California if only out of sync time frame wise. Said another way, the cover in a DST packed box could have been a version made in September 1963 or one made in July 1965.)
1964-65 Cobras with optional covers is not very complicated. Adding in 1965 and 1966 MUSTANG GT350 street cars makes following what was used when very difficult to follow in day one pictures (pictures which often don't have manufacturing date or chassis number associated with them). Today my only easy generalization is that early 1965 GT350s seemed to have used the 1964-65 Cobra parts left over when Cobra production was aborted at CSX2589 in 1964. CSX2590 through CSX2600 were never built and there is no telling how many Cobras were planned before 427 Cobras, GT40s, and 1965 MUSTANG GT350 took over.
Quote from: DRGT350 on February 25, 2021, 01:48:05 PM
A picture with the PCV grommet removed/
This cover was cast based on the 1963-64 wooden master used to created the optional rocker arm covers for 1964-65 Cobras. Also used for sure in early 1965 MUSTANG GT350 street cars.
Aluminum covers were special order options for all 1964 engines in Cobras through CSX2200. At CSX2201 the covers became a standard feature even though listed as optional. Based on some fine detail I suspect it was made before fourth quarter 1964. Otherwise the picture is not sufficient to gauge when it might have been made. (Because wooden patterns wear a little every time they are used real small details change over the life of the tooling.)
Thank you for the information Dan -
I take it then that variation is / was somewhat common -
Dave
It is extremely interesting to follow what Dan has seen over the years. With out his insight "most of us" ( including me) would think because Buddy Bar made all of them , they would all "be the same". NOT! because of Dan I saw where "I" had unknowingly separated matched pairs into mismatched pairs while in my possession. Details like this are why SAAC is a cut above the rest.
Quote from: DRGT350 on February 25, 2021, 03:02:38 PM
Thank you for the information Dan -
I take it then that variation is / was somewhat common -
Dave
You are welcome. There were all kinds of versions. These engineering numbers came from various Ford and Shelby publications. I cannot prove how accurate they are or what might be missing I have not found.
1964 Cobras (1964 model year engines) very early. Made by Buddy Barksdale's company but not marked as such.
"C3RA-6582-B (R.H.)" with
chromium plated oil fill tube. Oil fill on the right hand side of the engine for Cobras.
"C3RA-6582-C (L.H.)" with port for PCV valve grommet.
1964 Cobras past very early installations. Made by Buddy Barksdale's company and so marked.
"C3RA 6582- B2 Valve Cover with Filler Tube R/H (Bud-B) Buddy Ea 17.97 14.47" with oil fill tube for right side of engine (yes, the parts book specifically calls out installation on the right hand side of the engine) The oil fill tube appears to be cadmium plated and chromium plating never returns.
"C3RA 6582- B4 Valve Cover Aluminum RH (1964) Ford (Buddy) Ea 24.75 20.13" Note price increase as suffix changed.
"C3RA 6582- C Cover, Rocker Arm LH Budy Bar Ea 18.68 13.08" for left hand side with PCV port
"C3RA 6582- C5 Valve Cover Aluminum LH (1964) Ford (Buddy) Ea 24.75 20.13". Note price increase as suffix changed.
In the May 1965 Shelby parts list:
"C4RA 6582-A Cover Rocker Arm RH Budy Bar Ea 17.74 12.42" (PCV RH side in a Mustang chassis)
C3RA 6582-C Cover, Rocker Arm LH Budy Bar Ea 18.68 13.08" (PCV side in a Cobra chassis)
The "C4RA 6582-A" assembly was new and was the made from a new revised casting design. On a GT350 the PCV fitted cover assembly was on the right side of the engine like other Fords.
I once had the idea to obtain one of every unrestored COBRA POWERED BY FORD design to mount in a display. Then I found out how many that might mean and dropped that idea. There were three distinct versions for Cobras with 1962-63 engines, two for 1964-65 Cobras plus early and late, then the 1965-66 GT350s............oh no.
Jim Cowles took all the ones I didn't want as restore and resell projects.
Thanks much again Dan-
Really appreciate the education on these valve covers !
Good stuff for sure,
Dave
Quote from: DRGT350 on February 25, 2021, 10:10:38 PM
Thanks much again Dan-
Really appreciate the education on these valve covers !
Good stuff for sure,
Dave
Hi Dave,
Dan is our guy. Thanks Dan for the education.
Cory
You are welcome.
I have a slide show illustrating Cobra production available.
Dan
Could I get a copy of your Cobra valave cover slide show?
Email Sprint1963260@icloud.com
Many thanks
Steve
Quote from: StevePA on March 26, 2023, 08:22:40 AM
Dan
Could I get a copy of your Cobra valave cover slide show?
Email Sprint1963260@icloud.com
Many thanks
Steve
Sent
Do I vaguely remember that on Forum V.1? Dan, any way you can post the slide show here or a link to it rather than a bunch of us pestering you to send it?
Quote from: NC TRACKRAT on April 01, 2023, 02:36:10 PM
Do I vaguely remember that on Forum V.1? Dan, any way you can post the slide show here or a link to it rather than a bunch of us pestering you to send it?
There are file hosting sites but that would make more for me to keep up with because many of my files get updates and additions as different details come up for discussion or questions are asked.
I have added eight [8] pages to the file on cast aluminum rocker covers since last August for a current total of 36 pages. The file studies what new Cobras could have been purchased with during most of 1963 and the standard cover assemblies used CSX2201-CSX2589 during late 1963 through 1964. A few ancillaries are covered by installer site and time frame also. The file just touches on covers produced to revised manufacturing processes and the addition of more wooden patterns for 1965 through early 1966 MUSTANG GT350 street cars to inform Cobra owners and rebuilders that not all "hollow letter" cover assemblies late 1963-66 were the same. In the details, nice covers made before 1965 are pretty rare now and unmolested one in great survivor condition are very rare to even collect pictures of. (No, cover assemblies were not dated. 1964-66 cover assemblies did not stay the same long and the use of different wooden patterns and oil fill tube variants makes them very confusing to a casual observer just starting to hunt information.)
I have not thought about it but I think only four or five people have wanted a *.pdf version of file emailed to them and that is from several forums that I participate in. In most of the inquiries I receive, someone is either looking at a part or pairs they can buy or ones they already bought where they want a better idea of what time frame they would have been used.