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SAAC Forum => SAAC Forum Discussion Area => Topic started by: gt350hr on February 25, 2021, 06:07:56 PM

Title: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on February 25, 2021, 06:07:56 PM
 For years I have grumbled about wanting to put on a REAL GT350-500 ONLY drag race. I have some "rough rules'' scratched out .Call me a racist if you want BUT I want genuine 65-70 cars only. No clones , rebodies , tributes. STOCK bodies , no tubs, subframe connectors , flares , NON original fibreglass parts ( or carbon fiber LOL) Maximum tire size 10.5x28x15. "Production " or "optional" as produced interiors . "Original deletes" , radio , heater rear seat ('66 only) OK Original or SAI catalog optional wheels OK Transmissions, '65 =T 10 ONLY, '66 T 10 or C4 , '67-68 Top loader or C4 (sb) C6 (428) 69-70 Toploader -FMX (351) or C6 428. ANY clutch , convertor or gear set that can't be seen but the transmission case MUST be correct! ANY gear ratio! NO spools . "Factory brakes" NO rear discs.
   Now the tough part.
   Engines ,
     Blocks '65-68 ANY 8.2 deck block "MADE or SOLD by Ford" in ANY catalog even current. 69-70 351W , NO SVO OR aftermarket blocks PERIOD '67-70 428s "Production" 428 blocks ONLY NO 427 OR aftermarket blocks PERIOD. Don't try and hide cross bolts OR add them to a 428 block.
     Cranks , rods , pistons , cams lifters , pushrods , springs , rockers , OPEN , YOUR CHOICE What can't be seen , won't be considered. So that limits you to OEM valve covers . NO spacers allowed and MAXIMUM gasket thickness of .375 and must be "non metallic".
    Heads, ANY "Ford manufactured" ( key importance) BEFORE 1970 (key note) are legal . yes , rare Ford made aluminum heads are included . NO aftermarket heads EXCEPT small block C6FE (GT40) heads manufactured by Cobra Automotive. Be prepared to prove purchase if asked.
     Induction ,
      65-68 small blocks, Paxton , Webers , dual fours , three twos , single four all legal BUT the manifold MUST be an original made BEFORE 1970 Shelby "rambox" IS OK. Blue Thunder products are NOT OK. ANY carburetor that will bolt on without an adaptor on any kind is OK.
     '69-70 351s limited to ORIGINAL SHELBY lettered intake. Sorry carb is open but NO adaptor.
     '67-70 428s Any Ford , Cobra , or SHELBY lettered intake made before 1970 is OK  Carb(s) open  NO adaptor(s)
       Exhaust,
      65-66 steel tubing any design 
      67-70 CAST IRON production manifolds PERIOD small OR big block , unless you have a verified drag unit OR  the '67 Super Snake
    So as I noted in the begining , Factory Appearing Slick Tire ( FAST) Shelby.
   I am considering a max 8 car race. If more enter ( free) , the fastest 8 would compete "heads up" and EVERY place would win $$$s  I already have one company wanting to put $500 in the "pot" and others interested. Please let me know your thoughts here or a PM if you prefer. This could get media exposure too.
       Randy
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: roddster on February 25, 2021, 07:01:41 PM
 Yeah, but: ah, where would  this race be held?  No mention of it.
   And back-in-the-day a new-ish 67 GT 350 would run 15:30's all day, no mods.  Same, almost, as the magazines said it would.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 427heaven on February 25, 2021, 08:09:14 PM
That's a fun idea Randy but talk about pushing a snowball up a hill in HELL. Originality is key here but most cars would fall into the DQ'D catagory . If gaskets or original valve covers are absent, I think that would be the tip of the iceberg for making cars illegal for competition. Most all of the cars running around have some of those discrepancies and the fact the garage queen cars that would fit this criteria probably wouldn't want to stretch their cars legs. Maybe an OUTLAW class with original looking cars but with maybe day 2 mods or period correct mods, might bring more cars out? Then the where and when? Left coast- East coast- North- South- Desolate street, abondoned airport runway, piggy backed onto an existing NHRA race? Lots to figure out. :D
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 68blk500c on February 25, 2021, 08:47:40 PM
Randy:  I am in the concourse judging camp.  But, what you propose is quite interesting; I get it.  Let all of the other draggers fall into their category and have their fun.  Your proposal would be the elite of the christmas tree camp, so go for quality, original drag cars--YES!  We understand it will be a small group of cars, which is just fine.   
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: Side-Oilers on February 25, 2021, 10:25:08 PM
Randy, I like the idea a lot, but my KR won't qualify.

It's a Day-Two car. Aluminum side-oiler, Wilwood brakes, 16-inch Torq Thrusts, Hotchkis suspension, Magnaflow exhaust out the back.   

But the car looks pretty much stock otherwise.  (Probably not stock enough for Pete & Bob... ;D)

Interior is all original, just a Hurst T-Handle shifter added.  Top Loader, rear end, etc., are original to the car.

Factory sheet metal, fiberglass, bumpers, window glass.

One repaint, in original color.

I would love to join you and other SAAC guys for a drag strip day.   I don't need to bracket race, or run for money/prizes.  I just want to see what my car will run (street tires, full exhaust) and have some fun blowing the sweet smell of race gas out the tailpipes for 1320 feet.   

Would you consider Day Two cars, for a class of their own? Original cars could have the lion's share of the track day, but there's probably a lot of guys with Day Two '65-70 "real" Shelbys that would love to be there and have a go.

Of course: I'd rather not have to trailer my car to a far-away state.  So that limits me to CA, AZ and NV.

Hope you can put it all together. I'm ready!
Van

Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on February 26, 2021, 07:38:00 AM
Why would I want the press to see all the 15.3 cars with all of the old guys falling asleep at the wheel? They'll need to be nudged to make sure the car is in "D" for daa!

With all your rules, sounds more like a Concourse venue? Who are the Judges you are going to get to check the specs? Original cork valve cover gaskets?

I noticed how many disqualifications you listed. I think that you used my car as the model? Must be at least a dozen?

Better off with grudge matches. Now there's a list of potentials but how are you going to keep the drivers from beating each other with sticks in the pits, the fans from throwing rotten eggs and tomatoes? Do we need to check our guns at the door?

Let's have a shooting contest of who can shoot the empty "Leftie's Beer" bottles off the pit walls after having five or six?

Geese!
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 427heaven on February 26, 2021, 09:19:55 AM
I love the idea of getting people together for some fun car activities. When I here race car or performance car my ears perk up and start paying attention. King of the hill is a great moniker but we can already guess the outcome of who gets that title! We have our in house DRAG expert who has perfected his combination for the last 45 years, all others not so much. Curious where this goes... Having a person with a stock SHELBY running 15- 16 second quarter mile times by a Fat , Bald, Old guy, doesnt really seem appealing to the car magazines in my opinion. Most everything in my driveway would probably put the SPANK DOWN to a vintage SHELBY from my twin turbo eco boost truck to my wife's Lexus :-[ These cars are getting away from the average guy to purchase and play around with plus the AGE thing, old people don't like to really go past the speed limit anymore in anything, let alone their 100k + investments. I hope that we can figure out how to enjoy these cars before they get squirreled away in some collection, never to be driven as they were intended! Best of luck on how to bring this together. ;)
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on February 26, 2021, 11:49:51 AM
    Guys ,
     READ carefully. This is NOT a race for concourse cars! Anyone considering participating should AT LEAST have a car with 12 second ( or lower potential). Yes the purpose is based on day two . How fast "could" a Paxton blown 347 or larger engine be? What about a 351W @ 427ci or a 428@ 470 ci?  Roller cams high compression. To add fairness and keep the power levels in tact , I had to limit steel tubing headers to the cars that originally had them. This is the same reason for the tire size restriction. I can say the same for limiting the transmissions to those proper for the specific year. The cylinder head limitations ( both year and manufacturer) are there to keep stuff "as in the day". Same for induction.
    By limiting modifications to the car itself , I am not hurting the value or allowing an unfair advantage. I also see I missed the suspension information which should be "original spring locations" , the ONLY acceptable traction bar is a weld on Traction Master if not originally equipped. I am not looking for "professional" lettered and stickered up race cars. Just "your car" "hopped up" LOL
     Venue?  To get this to happen it would HAVE to be at a deal like Mid America ( too soon for this year) or a SAAC convention where drag racing could be held. The particular venue "could" also have an affect on track length be it 1/4 or 1/8th mile. I realize there is some significant travel potential here and is why I would compensate ALL ( four or eight) entrants that would be in the competition IF more than eight entrants apply.
      The purpose here is to determine IF anyone shares my "idea"  for an interesting race.  In the past the races I have overseen are simply "fun runs" with occasional "grudge pairings". This would be a "for real" heads up race for $$$s . The $$$s come from me and or those who want to "throw in". I'd like to see Manny do a video on it. "Eight real Shelbys knocking it out at the drag strip"
     Randy
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on February 26, 2021, 12:51:42 PM
    Guys ,
     READ carefully. This is NOT a race for concourse cars! Anyone considering participating should AT LEAST have a car with 12 second ( or lower potential). Yes the purpose is based on day two . How fast "could" a Paxton blown 347 or larger engine be? What about a 351W @ 427ci or a 428@ 470 ci?  Roller cams high compression. To add fairness and keep the power levels in tact , I had to limit steel tubing headers to the cars that originally had them. This is the same reason for the tire size restriction. I can say the same for limiting the transmissions to those proper for the specific year. The cylinder head limitations ( both year and manufacturer) are there to keep stuff "as in the day". Same for induction.
    By limiting modifications to the car itself , I am not hurting the value or allowing an unfair advantage. I also see I missed the suspension information which should be "original spring locations" , the ONLY acceptable traction bar is a weld on Traction Master if not originally equipped. I am not looking for "professional" lettered and stickered up race cars. Just "your car" "hopped up" LOL
     Venue?  To get this to happen it would HAVE to be at a deal like Mid America ( too soon for this year) or a SAAC convention where drag racing could be held. The particular venue "could" also have an affect on track length be it 1/4 or 1/8th mile. I realize there is some significant travel potential here and is why I would compensate ALL ( four or eight) entrants that would be in the competition IF more than eight entrants apply.
      The purpose here is to determine IF anyone shares my "idea"  for an interesting race.  In the past the races I have overseen are simply "fun runs" with occasional "grudge pairings". This would be a "for real" heads up race for $$$s . The $$$s come from me and or those who want to "throw in". I'd like to see Manny do a video on it. "Eight real Shelbys knocking it out at the drag strip"
     Randy

Problemo numero uno. There are no Shelby's as you described with 12 second potential.

Since this is a fantasy to begine with, I thought we should all drive to Hawaii to do it?
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350bp on February 26, 2021, 01:42:14 PM
Would love to do it, but neither of my cars would qualify. If someone finds me a nice old school 68 fastback roller set up for stock or super stock, I can remove the big engine from my KR and go back to stock. 

Don
gt350bp

   
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 2112 on February 26, 2021, 02:01:14 PM
Maybe the F.A.S.T. format would help?

https://www.fastdrags.com/fast-rules
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on February 26, 2021, 02:30:04 PM
   Doug ,
      Speak for yourself! My '66 runs 11.5s with an all iron 331 that is well within the guide lines of what I have laid out. A slightly warmed over  '68 KR with a 4.30 gear and a 10" slick would be in the 12s with EASE.
    This deal is not for the "easy chair" racer. Careful scrutiny of the guide lines could produce 600 hp engines. THAT will propel a car into the 11s easily. I've left some serious loop holes in on purpose.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on February 26, 2021, 03:14:11 PM
Maybe the F.A.S.T. format would help?

https://www.fastdrags.com/fast-rules

    The trouble with the F.A.S.T. format is the "stock tire". THAT is dangerous ( well more so than a ten inch racing slick).
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on February 26, 2021, 03:23:01 PM
   Doug ,
      Speak for yourself! My '66 runs 11.5s with an all iron 331 that is well within the guide lines of what I have laid out. A slightly warmed over  '68 KR with a 4.30 gear and a 10" slick would be in the 12s with EASE.
    This deal is not for the "easy chair" racer. Careful scrutiny of the guide lines could produce 600 hp engines. THAT will propel a car into the 11s easily. I've left some serious loop holes in on purpose.

With iron manifolds and stock exhaust. Not happening. Low 14's maybe. 13.99 with the wind at your back.

Still, not very exciting.


11.5's? Umm, i thought we were talking Edelbrock heads, JBA 1-3/4" headers and a T/A intake with dual Holleys? That's hardly 289hp heads, COBRA high rise and iron exhausts?  ;)

I do understand that the Blue Thunder COBRA intake is worth quite a bit more hp over stock. Oh. I forgot. BT is Vorboten.


Look. There is an 8 second 2012 GT500 record holder but it's a computer that you start, put in D, point and hold on to. My eyes would be blurry the entire run from the shaking. You'd have to have a bright light at the end of the track for me to point it at.

In my day, 8 seconds was Pro-stock and cost cubic dollars. I remember Kenny Delco's crew getting on him for shaking the valve covers loose.

Doesn't the NHRA want a full cage for sub 12's? Nope, just 5 point. Sub 10 needs a cage.





Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 2112 on February 26, 2021, 03:39:52 PM
Maybe the F.A.S.T. format would help?

https://www.fastdrags.com/fast-rules

    The trouble with the F.A.S.T. format is the "stock tire". THAT is dangerous ( well more so than a ten inch racing slick).

Agreed.

But might be a good place to start. You could stipulate the tire you wanted.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 2112 on February 26, 2021, 03:40:48 PM
   Doug ,
      Speak for yourself! My '66 runs 11.5s with an all iron 331 that is well within the guide lines of what I have laid out. A slightly warmed over  '68 KR with a 4.30 gear and a 10" slick would be in the 12s with EASE.
    This deal is not for the "easy chair" racer. Careful scrutiny of the guide lines could produce 600 hp engines. THAT will propel a car into the 11s easily. I've left some serious loop holes in on purpose.

With iron manifolds and stock exhaust. Not happening. Low 14's maybe.

You might want to see what the guys in F.A.S.T. are doing.

I was very surprised.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 427heaven on February 26, 2021, 06:42:17 PM
I am trying to be very excited for this to possibly happen. Trouble is there are so many road blocks its going to take some serious thought to make it happen. Looks like were sorta following FAST rules, with that said it would be doubtful anyone could make 600 HP sipping- breathing thru a straw. I read the rules so many times my screen got blurry but it appears they know how to slow the cars down because you cant make serious power with stock intake and exhaust systems. Randy you and I spoke a long time ago at Palmdale, I was running a 66 coupe- Boss 302 powered, 4 gear, 5.14 gears, lots of cam, carb, and compression. It ran 13.20s in the high desert it had all the best parts in it. So I am doubtful a reworked small block that had to run stock valve covers, because they dont want people to run a stud girdle, roller rocker assemblies could make much more then 350 HP with standard rockers. Maybe one of our engine guys could chime in with real world numbers what a fully prepped Hipo or 302 could make HP wise and the correlating et numbers.  :)
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on February 26, 2021, 07:57:32 PM
I am trying to be very excited for this to possibly happen. Trouble is there are so many road blocks its going to take some serious thought to make it happen. Looks like were sorta following FAST rules, with that said it would be doubtful anyone could make 600 HP sipping- breathing thru a straw. I read the rules so many times my screen got blurry but it appears they know how to slow the cars down because you cant make serious power with stock intake and exhaust systems. Randy you and I spoke a long time ago at Palmdale, I was running a 66 coupe- Boss 302 powered, 4 gear, 5.14 gears, lots of cam, carb, and compression. It ran 13.20s in the high desert it had all the best parts in it. So I am doubtful a reworked small block that had to run stock valve covers, because they dont want people to run a stud girdle, roller rocker assemblies could make much more then 350 HP with standard rockers. Maybe one of our engine guys could chime in with real world numbers what a fully prepped Hipo or 302 could make HP wise and the correlating et numbers.  :)

The NHRA hp factor is probably pretty accurate. What did your car factor out to? About 450? That's what I'd expect.

600 should be under 10 seconds, no?
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: mark p on February 26, 2021, 08:58:23 PM
I can't add much to the discussion, except that having been at an event where the F.A.S.T. guys were running - all I could say is WOW  :o :o :o
... didn't really understand the rules/limitations - but they were beautiful cars and very fast on those ridiculous skinny tires. I "thought" that one of the guys had mentioned that the tires were "special" but made to look like the original stuff from the 60's?
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 2112 on February 26, 2021, 10:54:05 PM
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2010/10/06/f-a-s-t-racers-break-9-second-barrier

Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: mark p on February 26, 2021, 11:49:24 PM
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2010/10/06/f-a-s-t-racers-break-9-second-barrier

^^^ a fall event at Cecil is where I saw a group of them run  8)
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 2112 on February 27, 2021, 12:10:52 AM
9 second cars with cast iron exhaust manifolds.   ::)

And that isn't a current article. I don't know how fast they were in 2019-2020
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on February 27, 2021, 07:24:52 AM
9 second cars with cast iron exhaust manifolds.   ::)

And that isn't a current article. I don't know how fast they were in 2019-2020

Well you should get those guys to this event. 9 second Shelby's would show up well in the press. You won't find one here with me for sure.

People believe that the "Elanor" is a real '67 GT500. They'll believe those cars too.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: Bill on February 27, 2021, 08:08:26 AM
   Doug ,
      Speak for yourself! My '66 runs 11.5s with an all iron 331 that is well within the guide lines of what I have laid out. A slightly warmed over  '68 KR with a 4.30 gear and a 10" slick would be in the 12s with EASE.
    This deal is not for the "easy chair" racer. Careful scrutiny of the guide lines could produce 600 hp engines. THAT will propel a car into the 11s easily. I've left some serious loop holes in on purpose.

So, you want to race, and you are already bringing the built ringer to the track. Tested, tuned, and ready for more, with perhaps some details left out of what you did with the drivetrain and chassis this winter......Now I see where you are going with this thread  ;)

Sounds like fun either way you go......I do suspect a deeper financial pocket will be required in order to win though, and to me, it's not about the money spent, but about the amount of fun had while at the track with like minded friends.

Bill
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 427heaven on February 27, 2021, 08:35:54 AM
 Looks like a great time..... But a 572 inch HEMI Sattelite is a far cry from a 65 -70 SHELBY. You are comparing a 25-30 k car to a 150k car and all of them are big blocks that were intended for all out performance. Randys idea is a unique one that a group of SHELBYS racing is a DIFFERENT TYPE of experience, but ours were designed as road going cars not straight line missles. Can you make a 289-302 based engine compete with a big inch HEMI no you cant. Can you bring out 8-10 cars that meet the criteria that was laid out for us probably not. Can someone speed shift a t-10 trans like a top loader or rock crusher... Probably not. Would a senior citizen be willing or able to run his 150k- 350k SHELBY with original parts on it? Well probably not- Its a percentage game, after reading every ones input here over the years it appears its approximately a 90- 10 split. 10 percent like concourse cars, so these are eliminated from the equation. That leaves the rest of the cars. Of those, how many cars have some substantial horsepower under the hood from stock? Probably not many, then would they be willing to make the tow to this event and are they able to make a full throttle blast in their pride and joy. If the rules were loosened up to a Mustang with a 600 inch 385 series engine I am willing to bet more would show up. A 14-15 second pass in a SHELBY just doesnt seem exciting to the masses. Hope the kinks get worked out-
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on February 27, 2021, 09:13:52 AM
Looks like a great time..... But a 572 inch HEMI Sattelite is a far cry from a 65 -70 SHELBY. You are comparing a 25-30 k car to a 150k car and all of them are big blocks that were intended for all out performance. Randys idea is a unique one that a group of SHELBYS racing is a DIFFERENT TYPE of experience, but ours were designed as road going cars not straight line missles. Can you make a 289-302 based engine compete with a big inch HEMI no you cant. Can you bring out 8-10 cars that meet the criteria that was laid out for us probably not. Can someone speed shift a t-10 trans like a top loader or rock crusher... Probably not. Would a senior citizen be willing or able to run his 150k- 350k SHELBY with original parts on it? Well probably not- Its a percentage game, after reading every ones input here over the years it appears its approximately a 90- 10 split. 10 percent like concourse cars, so these are eliminated from the equation. That leaves the rest of the cars. Of those, how many cars have some substantial horsepower under the hood from stock? Probably not many, then would they be willing to make the tow to this event and are they able to make a full throttle blast in their pride and joy. If the rules were loosened up to a Mustang with a 600 inch 385 series engine I am willing to bet more would show up. A 14-15 second pass in a SHELBY just doesnt seem exciting to the masses. Hope the kinks get worked out-

Well I don't know about all of the kinks, but this kink is out. ;)
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 427heaven on February 27, 2021, 09:41:58 AM
Agreed..... A little kinky, but that might not be all that bad ? Lets see how this goes. ;D
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 2112 on February 27, 2021, 12:09:22 PM
guys, you are taking the F.A.S.T. analogy too literally. It was suggested only as a guide. Not an actual format to copy.

But it does poke holes in the "I have to have headers" belief. If 572 inches with OEM iron manifolds isn't sucking thru a straw, I don't know what is.

And those straw suckers are running in the 9's.   ;D
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on February 27, 2021, 02:30:23 PM
guys, you are taking the F.A.S.T. analogy too literally. It was suggested only as a guide. Not an actual format to copy.

But it does poke holes in the "I have to have headers" belief. If 572 inches with OEM iron manifolds isn't sucking thru a straw, I don't know what is.

And those straw suckers are running in the 9's.   ;D

Like I said, invite them to the competition but I wouldn't even bother to look to see if they would comply with Randy's rules, because they can't.

A nine second FE is essentially a Pro Stock FE which simply put, doesn't exist. A BB Chevy Pro Stock engine get's leased for the season  and has to be some where over $100k to build.
I'm not even sure the parts exist for that in an FE and certainly there is virtually nothing stock they could use except maybe the bolt that holds the distributor down, if in fact they still would use a distributor.

In order to run even in the 11's, there is a substantial amount of chassis work needed and it really pushes the car over the limit of what a legal street car is in spirit if not literally according to various state laws.
You need uplock shocks in the front. You need to disconnect the anti-sway bar. Stuff like that.


You CAN fairly simply get around 600hp out of an FE and 500hp out of a small block. (331-347).
A small block stock block will more readily survive 8,000 rpm hole shots but even a 427 stock block won't.



Two key elements needed are going to be an aftermarket block,i.e., a Pond 427 block. A Ford Racing Boss 302 small block, headers (big tube), probably a solid roller lifter cam, maybe titanium connecting rods, some kind of a lightened trick crank and most definitely current aftermarket cylinder heads. That's more then two huh?
Probably a lot of unobtanium components as well.

Anyone of those legal on Randy's list? Of course not but he didn't say anything about his Edelbrock ALUMINUM heads being disqualified?


I admit, he wasn't completely picking on just me. He didn't mention my nitrous oxide?


IN ADDITION, even if you do make the power and build it so it doesn't explode every run, unless you put a cage in it, it's gonna' bend up the sheet metal. I dimpled the roof on the passenger side on my '68. I was fortunate not to tear the traction bars out of the chassis.


I'm sure the event will be fun. Let me know how it was?

Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 2112 on February 27, 2021, 08:56:25 PM
Still not saying anything about pro stock.

F.A.S.T is just an example. Not an exact format.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/stephen-tate-1970-plymouth-aar-cuda/

Here is a Small block ‘Cuda in the 11’s. A better example.

All Without aluminum heads and headers.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on February 27, 2021, 09:13:29 PM
Still not saying anything about pro stock.

F.A.S.T is just an example. Not an exact format.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/stephen-tate-1970-plymouth-aar-cuda/

Here is a Small block ‘Cuda in the 11’s. A better example.

All Without aluminum heads and headers.

OK, and the point is ...?
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 2112 on February 27, 2021, 10:15:06 PM
Still not saying anything about pro stock.

F.A.S.T is just an example. Not an exact format.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/stephen-tate-1970-plymouth-aar-cuda/

Here is a Small block ‘Cuda in the 11’s. A better example.

All Without aluminum heads and headers.

OK, and the point is ...?

Nobody is suggesting you come with a pro stock engine.

Or, from how I read the original post, a huge budget engine.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 427heaven on February 27, 2021, 11:08:03 PM
 Maybe we could have a show of hands who has a car that runs in the 11s and meets the criteria that was outlined in the beginning of this thread ?
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbyluva on February 28, 2021, 12:42:33 AM
I like the idea of a much looser version of this and would participate. 
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on February 28, 2021, 07:26:16 AM
This is really lining up to be the "Grudge Match" of all grudge matches! I love it.

You just don't get it do you? THOSE FAST engines ARE PURE RACE ENGINES, cleverly disguised as stock APPEARING. "Hey Margret, those engines are stock right? I doe no Bobby, what's stock look like?"

"Juz like that "Eleanor over there".  ;)

Ah ha. That was easy see?


Those ARE race blocks. Aluminum heads coated to look and test as iron. 700 lift cams. Aluminum cast exhausts extrude honed to be thinner than steel tube headers, etc., etc., etc.

Someone is also making the "60's" soft compound tires that the manufacturers put onto the "test" cars that they gave to the press to test a 1/2 second faster stock then YOU could do, with apparently some high tech updates to make them crinkle too.


Good. Get good and pissed off. Get your "manhood challenged". Get your car ready and bring it to kick some ass, strictly in the biblical sense mind you. We're all ready! "COMMON, DO IT! KILL ME, DO IT"!

Show ME YOUR 11 second Shelby! GRRR! Shelbydoug is a dumb azz! He don't know freakin' NUTTIN'! I dare you! ;)
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: roddster on February 28, 2021, 12:28:42 PM
  There is an alternative to the F.A.S.T. rules.
  Hemmings Muscle cars mag has reported that: you enter, you do time trials, then a ladder is set up.  You run best 2 out of 3 against the same car that runs near you time-trial time.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 2112 on February 28, 2021, 01:59:10 PM
You just don't get it do you? THOSE FAST engines ARE PURE RACE ENGINES, cleverly disguised as stock APPEARING.

Those ARE race blocks. Aluminum heads coated to look and test as iron. 700 lift cams. Aluminum cast exhausts extrude honed to be thinner than steel tube headers, etc., etc., etc.

Someone is also making the "60's" soft compound tires that the manufacturers put onto the "test" cars that they gave to the press to test a 1/2 second faster stock then YOU could do, with apparently some high tech updates to make them crinkle too.

Good. Get good and pissed off. Get your "manhood challenged". Get your car ready and bring it to kick some ass, strictly in the biblical sense mind you. We're all ready! "COMMON, DO IT! KILL ME, DO IT"!

Show ME YOUR 11 second Shelby! GRRR! Shelbydoug is a dumb azz! He don't know freakin' NUTTIN'! I dare you! ;)

 :P
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelby1817 on February 28, 2021, 08:29:52 PM
Count me in...
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelby1817 on February 28, 2021, 08:33:47 PM
just let me know when and where ... should be a 1/2 mile drag race  get with a company called SPEED FEST   they do an amazing weekend
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 427heaven on February 28, 2021, 08:56:28 PM
There we go... Theres one! Tell us about your car you know where you run, ET"S, what engine etc. :)
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 01, 2021, 11:15:12 AM
Looks like a great time..... But a 572 inch HEMI Sattelite is a far cry from a 65 -70 SHELBY. You are comparing a 25-30 k car to a 150k car and all of them are big blocks that were intended for all out performance. Randys idea is a unique one that a group of SHELBYS racing is a DIFFERENT TYPE of experience, but ours were designed as road going cars not straight line missles. Can you make a 289-302 based engine compete with a big inch HEMI no you cant. Can you bring out 8-10 cars that meet the criteria that was laid out for us probably not. Can someone speed shift a t-10 trans like a top loader or rock crusher... Probably not. Would a senior citizen be willing or able to run his 150k- 350k SHELBY with original parts on it? Well probably not- Its a percentage game, after reading every ones input here over the years it appears its approximately a 90- 10 split. 10 percent like concourse cars, so these are eliminated from the equation. That leaves the rest of the cars. Of those, how many cars have some substantial horsepower under the hood from stock? Probably not many, then would they be willing to make the tow to this event and are they able to make a full throttle blast in their pride and joy. If the rules were loosened up to a Mustang with a 600 inch 385 series engine I am willing to bet more would show up. A 14-15 second pass in a SHELBY just doesnt seem exciting to the masses. Hope the kinks get worked out-

Well I don't know about all of the kinks, but this kink is out. ;)

       Doug I will be blunt but not rude. You are not well versed in drag racing , SORRY.  Let me give you a build that WOULD run in the 10's. '66 , auto ,4.30 or 4.57 gear, Paxton blown 363 ci ( remember NO CI limit) roller cam , gutted closed letter valve covers to clear the roller rockers, Windsor (351) heads fully ported. If run on E85 , it "could" make well over 600HP. Just because YOU can't see it doesn't mean others can. I can't see you entering anyway.
    Yes this is loosely based on FAST rules but the tire limitation they have is not safe in my opinion. My car will not look any different than it has in the past . It's what you don't see that is changing. The current 331 has been in the 10's already , and the new engine is bigger. A 427ci Windsor or 470 ci FE is going to be powerful even on iron manifolds. The iron manifolds are an equalizer to level the power to that of the small blocks.
     Randy
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 01, 2021, 11:48:47 AM
Looks like a great time..... But a 572 inch HEMI Sattelite is a far cry from a 65 -70 SHELBY. You are comparing a 25-30 k car to a 150k car and all of them are big blocks that were intended for all out performance. Randys idea is a unique one that a group of SHELBYS racing is a DIFFERENT TYPE of experience, but ours were designed as road going cars not straight line missles. Can you make a 289-302 based engine compete with a big inch HEMI no you cant. Can you bring out 8-10 cars that meet the criteria that was laid out for us probably not. Can someone speed shift a t-10 trans like a top loader or rock crusher... Probably not. Would a senior citizen be willing or able to run his 150k- 350k SHELBY with original parts on it? Well probably not- Its a percentage game, after reading every ones input here over the years it appears its approximately a 90- 10 split. 10 percent like concourse cars, so these are eliminated from the equation. That leaves the rest of the cars. Of those, how many cars have some substantial horsepower under the hood from stock? Probably not many, then would they be willing to make the tow to this event and are they able to make a full throttle blast in their pride and joy. If the rules were loosened up to a Mustang with a 600 inch 385 series engine I am willing to bet more would show up. A 14-15 second pass in a SHELBY just doesnt seem exciting to the masses. Hope the kinks get worked out-

Well I don't know about all of the kinks, but this kink is out. ;)

       Doug I will be blunt but not rude. You are not well versed in drag racing , SORRY.  Let me give you a build that WOULD run in the 10's. '66 , auto ,4.30 or 4.57 gear, Paxton blown 363 ci ( remember NO CI limit) roller cam , gutted closed letter valve covers to clear the roller rockers, Windsor (351) heads fully ported. If run on E85 , it "could" make well over 600HP. Just because YOU can't see it doesn't mean others can. I can't see you entering anyway.
    Yes this is loosely based on FAST rules but the tire limitation they have is not safe in my opinion. My car will not look any different than it has in the past . It's what you don't see that is changing. The current 331 has been in the 10's already , and the new engine is bigger. A 427ci Windsor or 470 ci FE is going to be powerful even on iron manifolds. The iron manifolds are an equalizer to level the power to that of the small blocks.
     Randy

You da' man!  ;)

Are they all lining up for you to prove me wrong yet?  ::)
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 01, 2021, 12:00:17 PM
   Doug ,
      Speak for yourself! My '66 runs 11.5s with an all iron 331 that is well within the guide lines of what I have laid out. A slightly warmed over  '68 KR with a 4.30 gear and a 10" slick would be in the 12s with EASE.
    This deal is not for the "easy chair" racer. Careful scrutiny of the guide lines could produce 600 hp engines. THAT will propel a car into the 11s easily. I've left some serious loop holes in on purpose.
   
So, you want to race, and you are already bringing the built ringer to the track. Tested, tuned, and ready for more, with perhaps some details left out of what you did with the drivetrain and chassis this winter......Now I see where you are going with this thread  ;)

Sounds like fun either way you go......I do suspect a deeper financial pocket will be required in order to win though, and to me, it's not about the money spent, but about the amount of fun had while at the track with like minded friends.

Bill
   
    No Bill  I haven't touched the performance of my car in three years. It IS still the way it was in my Feb 2011 magazine article and IS illegal per my guidelines! Build a ringer to win my "own" money? Naw. Have the fastest stock appearing Shelby ? I won't rule that out because I "would" like to see the maximum potential of the car with "Ford manufactured" heads , intake and carburetion  made BEFORE the end of '70. I would have to build a complete to be "legal" . Nothing on the engine stand yet.
   If no one "steps up" , so be it. No one yet has offered a drag race challenge OR offered cash payouts like I will if I get interest.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 01, 2021, 12:07:26 PM
I like the idea of a much looser version of this and would participate.

     What "loosening" you would like. The 10.5x28 MAX tire is fixed as is no tubs OR aftermarket traction devices.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 01, 2021, 05:46:17 PM
  After all this maybe I should just set up a match race with J Bittle's 67 GT500.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 01, 2021, 07:10:22 PM
  After all this maybe I should just set up a match race with J Bittle's 67 GT500.

 :o

Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: Rickmustang on March 01, 2021, 07:17:36 PM
I watched Jay race an early GT 350 down the main drag in college in 1982 or so. He was running the 427 and huge air dam then. It was not a fair race lol.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 427heaven on March 01, 2021, 07:19:53 PM
 The ONLY true way to see who the king of the hill is to set up a schedule ,to see who is willing to make the tow to some different tracks across the country. That way all would know that they came from far and wide to see who is actually the fastest - quickest ORIGINAL looking drag SHELBY on the planet. Very COOL TITLE.  :)
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 427heaven on March 01, 2021, 07:25:26 PM
 Thinking about it ... A best out of 5 races might be a good start, that way there could be a North, South, East , West, and Central race set up, that way no one could say the are the fastest if they win lets say the west coast. You got to win the majority from all around, to say you are the best. ;)
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 02, 2021, 09:18:57 AM
Thinking about it ... A best out of 5 races might be a good start, that way there could be a North, South, East , West, and Central race set up, that way no one could say the are the fastest if they win lets say the west coast. You got to win the majority from all around, to say you are the best. ;)

Just go to the Trophy shop and have one made with your name on it. Who's going to know?

The ONLY benefit for creating and running a national series like this would be for publicity. Even so, you can't compete with "Gone in 60 seconds".

In my view, competing in any sport in order to be the champion is about achieving glory.

I'll go back and quote Patton, "ALL GLORY IS FLEETING!"

Others certainly may feel differently about it. Acknowledged.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 02, 2021, 11:18:55 AM
 My target was a venue like a convention or Mid America meet. One day , one chance , put up or shut up , was the idea. When was the last time Or have you ever seen a REAL Shelby with the front wheels in the air on the launch?
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 02, 2021, 01:19:07 PM
My target was a venue like a convention or Mid America meet. One day , one chance , put up or shut up , was the idea. When was the last time Or have you ever seen a REAL Shelby with the front wheels in the air on the launch?

I never have.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 02, 2021, 02:20:00 PM
   Mine does every time now. It also does 0-100-0 in under 13 seconds. "Most" Shelbys can't get to 100 in 13 seconds. I think there is still a youtube video of a pass from years back when it only ran low 11s @120. Now 10.90s @123. It is licensed , insured and street legal with the drag radials.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 02, 2021, 02:49:52 PM
   Mine does every time now. It also does 0-100-0 in under 13 seconds. "Most" Shelbys can't get to 100 in 13 seconds. I think there is still a youtube video of a pass from years back when it only ran low 11s @120. Now 10.90s @123. It is licensed , insured and street legal with the drag radials.

Street legal and being able to drive it on the street are two different things.



Years ago, I think it was Super Ford that did a shoot out? In that shootout was Gordon Gimbles USRRC 289 Cobra.

I was looking for it the other day but it hasn't turned up yet so by memory, the best the Cobra was able to do was something like 12.2? I don't remember what the speed was.



I also remember looking at a Thunderbolt years ago that was licensed on the street. The car had modified front spindles on it from the factory that aided it's straight line stability but that all but eliminated it's ability to make any reasonable turns. I guess you had to go all around the Earth to go home or put it on a turntable, but it was "legal" for the street?

I was very disappointed with that. I didn't buy it.



I'm happy with being the fastest on my street. The cars are already in "the Hall of Fame". They don't need to go back and hit more home runs or pitch more no hitters.
As Satan said as he is cast into the pit, "better to rule in Hell, then to serve in Heaven".
I'm satisfied with that. Others? That's up to them.  ;D
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 02, 2021, 05:29:32 PM
   The only thing that keeps me from driving it more on the street is the 5.29 rear gear and $10 per gallon gas. The 331 is very happy cruising around. Never gets hot.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 02, 2021, 06:09:13 PM
   The only thing that keeps me from driving it more on the street is the 5.29 rear gear and $10 per gallon gas. The 331 is very happy cruising around. Never gets hot.

5,29s? Are you running an AOD or a C4? What are your trap rpm's? No wonder you pop wheelies.

My torque multiplication factor in first is only 11.44. Your's must be 12.4?
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: Lfino on March 02, 2021, 06:33:42 PM
More than a few of my friends back in the day, witnessed my 67 pulling the front up. Not far. 6 or 7 inches. But still off the ground. Not as hard as some may think. (I cheated a little bit. 427 toploader)
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 427heaven on March 02, 2021, 10:50:19 PM
My target was a venue like a convention or Mid America meet. One day , one chance , put up or shut up , was the idea. When was the last time Or have you ever seen a REAL Shelby with the front wheels in the air on the launch?
  Wes Johnsons screaming green snot rocket pulled the wheels up on most runs, not bad from 40 years ago. ;)
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 03, 2021, 10:51:08 AM
   The only thing that keeps me from driving it more on the street is the 5.29 rear gear and $10 per gallon gas. The 331 is very happy cruising around. Never gets hot.

5,29s? Are you running an AOD or a C4? What are your trap rpm's? No wonder you pop wheelies.

My torque multiplication factor in first is only 11.44. Your's must be 12.4?
   
   Original C4 , 8,200.  Doug , your experience in drag racing is limited yet your opinions seem limitless. I know you would never compete in a race like I suggest so why push your opinion against the concept?  I bought this Hertz car in '74 specifically TO drag race and have for 47 years. I know it is the longest continuously drag raced GT350 and now am aiming for the fastest ( non tube framed) one.
      Randy
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 03, 2021, 01:27:49 PM
   The only thing that keeps me from driving it more on the street is the 5.29 rear gear and $10 per gallon gas. The 331 is very happy cruising around. Never gets hot.

5,29s? Are you running an AOD or a C4? What are your trap rpm's? No wonder you pop wheelies.

My torque multiplication factor in first is only 11.44. Your's must be 12.4?
   
   Original C4 , 8,200.  Doug , your experience in drag racing is limited yet your opinions seem limitless. I know you would never compete in a race like I suggest so why push your opinion against the concept?  I bought this Hertz car in '74 specifically TO drag race and have for 47 years. I know it is the longest continuously drag raced GT350 and now am aiming for the fastest ( non tube framed) one.
      Randy

It wasn't intended as expressing an opinion. It was just a question. Sorry for troubling you.
I was just trying to stir up anger, grief  and resentment to bring out serious competitors for a good grudge match.

I'll remember to leave that up to you from now on. ;)


In my 50 year career, I can't tell you how many times I've been told to shut up and I "don't know "f-in" anything!" That doesn't bother me now. I know who's full of it and who isn't.


I do remember a customer that I was installing windows for though. The reason I remember it was because here, she was a criminal defense lawyer of significant notoriety.

We were inside the house finishing the trimming. As she was going up the stairs she suddenly turned and screamed at me, "YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING!". Then she s hit on the floor and kept going.

Somehow that has always illustrated the significance of the criticism on me, but we each have different experiences. At least she didn't throw a 2x4, a wrench or fire me for using the wrong pencil lead hardness, but those are different stories.


Did I tell you the story of when I asked Diamond (Diamond Race Cars) for a receipt for the C6FE aluminum 427 heads I was leaving with him? He said, "see those BB Chevy aluminum heads I'm using for door stops over there? Your heads are just 23 cents a pound".


It's a wonder no one has shot me dead yet? There's always time. ;D
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 03, 2021, 03:42:54 PM
   Doug If I "really" had an issue with you ( which I don't) I would go to PMs. If a venue ''pops up", I might get back on this. Yes I was targeting this toward some of the "touring" original drag cars and some of the "innovative" guys out there. looks like they just want to keep waxing and dusting them. All good . to each his own.
  Randy
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: TA Coupe on March 03, 2021, 10:13:20 PM
Come on guys, don't stop now I just sat down with my popcorn
   😃

     Roy
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: Doug C on March 03, 2021, 10:28:20 PM
How about in Sonoma?
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 427heaven on March 03, 2021, 10:36:06 PM
I'm doubtful but still hopeful... wait is that a double negative? There are so many things that are quite easy to see. First of all most drivers are now senior citizens, and frankly get scared to drop the clutch, mash the throttle and clean some carbon off the pistons. Secondly taking a drive out of city limits, let alone towing hundreds of miles to a race is tiring and most wont do it. Thirdly is the cost of these cars has gotten away from the average racer, collector, tinkerer so fear is always in the back of their minds not to hurt the car or themselves. Fourthly.. That's my third grade grammar coming out ;D Not too many cars can meet the rules set forth, or are willing to modify their cars to follow the rules. Fifthly :-[ These cars were designed to go around corners not just straight lines, so the question remains how many real cars out there meet the criteria set forth by our drag expert , are willing to make the tow, and can run a respectable number that can knock him off his perch? Lets see a show of hands-
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 04, 2021, 09:57:27 AM
I'm doubtful but still hopeful... wait is that a double negative? There are so many things that are quite easy to see. First of all most drivers are now senior citizens, and frankly get scared to drop the clutch, mash the throttle and clean some carbon off the pistons. Secondly taking a drive out of city limits, let alone towing hundreds of miles to a race is tiring and most wont do it. Thirdly is the cost of these cars has gotten away from the average racer, collector, tinkerer so fear is always in the back of their minds not to hurt the car or themselves. Fourthly.. That's my third grade grammar coming out ;D Not too many cars can meet the rules set forth, or are willing to modify their cars to follow the rules. Fifthly :-[ These cars were designed to go around corners not just straight lines, so the question remains how many real cars out there meet the criteria set forth by our drag expert , are willing to make the tow, and can run a respectable number that can knock him off his perch? Lets see a show of hands-

Well all that and consider this, respectfully, the level of competition that Randy is suggesting is at a pro level. Even if that's a mid 80's pro level?

Take his car for example. The spec's that he has admitted to already here in print, show that his car is turning 7877rpm @ 123 going through the traps.



Now it may in fact be that I don't know enough about this level of drag racing, but I know something.

I was familiar with Flip's Speed Shop Pro Stock Camaro in '86 or so. That was a Camaro body, Diamond Chassis, Bob Ingles BB Chevy driven by Kenny Delco.

I think that they got to the 1/4 finals two or three times and the best ET was around 8.6 or so.

I know he was launching at 9,200rpm and was going through the traps at about 8,800rpm.

That's as "Pro-level" as you get, other then beating out Glidden or Warren Johnson for the #1 designation?

These are the results the FAST cars are suggesting.



To say that "hey, FAST cars do it and they are stock looking" and they run in the 9's? Common. Are there any GT500's built to that spec? That's a "Pro" level.

Even Wes Johnson's 68 GT500 with the 427 didn't run those kinds of times.



I know what my cheapo '67 428 just cost me to build. I can't replace it for under $20k.
I can't run 9,000 rpm with it and expect it to live.

Consider what needs to go into a "stock looking" Ford FE to do that and try and put a price tag on it. Randy is correct. I don't know but I suspect that it is significantly more then I have in mine AND that doesn't even take care of the rest of the car.


Jay Biddle MAY be the best representation of what a GT500 is capable of running now. Maybe? What was he talking? Low 12?
It isn't stock looking, and it has his "ultimate '67 GT500 headers on it". ;)

Challenge him to a match race. See if he'll bring it out.


You are correct about "seniors" not wanting to travel across the country, none the less tow across it. They don't even need to hide the keys from me now. I'm too busy watching Jeopardy.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 04, 2021, 11:23:22 AM
   Looks like I may have a chance to "show the world" on July 30th in Sonoma Ca.

   Wes Johnson's ( rip) '68 was NOT the fastest Shelby @ OCIR "in the day". He turned it about 6,500 rpm on average. There was no need to turn the FE higher because it made so much torque. My '66 ( in the day) was Boss 302 powered and I was running similar times. I had to turn mine 9,000+ to do it because I made a little less HP but t TON less TQ. I ran 5.43,5.67,5.83 and one weekend tried 6.00 rear gears. All of this points to the fact that simply taking your "street car" to the track could be embarrassing , BUT "track preparing " it would certainly make it faster. Driving through the 1/4 in third gear instead of 4th is a good example.
  Talking about engine cost. Sure a "race" engine is expensive. Is it more that a race wining road race engine? Probably not. "If" you felt that my challenge was for the average Shelby owner looking to test his car's performance , you missed the point. The challenge was for the BIG EGO guys to see just how fast they can make a stock appearing , rules limited Shelby go. I one looked at my example of a Paxton blown engine combination , a person could wrap up $10,000 in the engine alone. I might have that much or more in my engine . I honestly haven't  kept track. I am going ahead and assembling and installing my new engine in 6S477 and run it July 30th. It will fit the rules I laid out. The ET will be whatever it will be.
    Randy
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 04, 2021, 11:43:13 AM
   IF anyone is interested in my original challenge proposal , I could run it at  SAAC 46 with a 4 car field , me being one of them. Doug won't be making the cross country trip so anyone interested please PM me. EACH participant WILL be racing for $$$ . Details "IF" anyone steps up. Again PM to stay private.
   Randy
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 04, 2021, 12:25:00 PM
   IF anyone is interested in my original challenge proposal , I could run it at  SAAC 46 with a 4 car field , me being one of them. Doug won't be making the cross country trip so anyone interested please PM me. EACH participant WILL be racing for $$$ . Details "IF" anyone steps up. Again PM to stay private.
   Randy

Well I eat at 4pm to get the senior discounts. I guess that you have TV's and show Jeopardy there too? I had better bring toilet paper though? I hear you keep running out.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 04, 2021, 02:41:42 PM
   Doug ,
      IF you flew out here in July , I would arrange for you to ride with me ( possibly the  330ft or 660ft only due to NHRA restrictions) but you WOULD BE REQUIRED to have a depends on.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 04, 2021, 04:14:34 PM
   Doug ,
      IF you flew out here in July , I would arrange for you to ride with me ( possibly the  330ft or 660ft only due to NHRA restrictions) but you WOULD BE REQUIRED to have a depends on.

No problem, I already wear them.  ;)

I'm still looking for a 2 hour flight.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 05, 2021, 11:15:48 AM
    Offer stands!
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 05, 2021, 01:05:28 PM
They did away with those 735's with the cocktail lounges and live bands didn't they? 6-1/2 hours squashed between two 400 pound guys isn't going to work for me.   :(
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 05, 2021, 01:39:37 PM
 Blah , blah , blah. You won't leave your recliner anyway ;D
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 05, 2021, 03:05:05 PM
Blah , blah , blah. You won't leave your recliner anyway ;D

No but I am thinking of converting to an automatic transmission. All these gears to remember in a manual? It gets complicated!

You don't even need a trained monkey to pedal the automatic car. It's easy. There's a go pedal and a stop pedal! Absolute genius! Who thought of that?  ::)
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: TA Coupe on March 06, 2021, 02:44:57 AM
Thanks guys,  I just finished my 🍿

      Roy
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 06, 2021, 06:54:30 AM
Thanks guys,  I just finished my 🍿

      Roy

I'll have to save mine for the flight in. After 6-1/2 hours I'm going to be so wasted from hanging at the hospitality bar on the plane. Then it gets in at midnight in SF to boot? Yikes.

I hope I don't wind up at the wrong hotel in the gay liberation section? I'll be very vulnerable at that point.

I'm going to have to come in a couple of days early to get my bearings


Few. The Market Street Festival is in September.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: mark p on March 06, 2021, 09:08:23 AM
Thanks guys,  I just finished my 🍿
      Roy

I dropped my popcorn when I fell off the chair laughing...  ;D :o ??? :-\
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 427heaven on March 06, 2021, 09:18:38 AM
 I'm surprised there is not another SHELBY on the planet, or car and driver that wouldn't give it a whirl. Randy King of the perch for now! ;)
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 08, 2021, 11:41:10 AM
   I haven't done it yet. It still has the "pedestrian" 10 second 331 in it .The heads aren't legal per my rules.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 08, 2021, 12:48:27 PM
I found this period article of a drag test on a '69 Mach 1 428 CJ CAR REVIEW magazine. No 12 second car there. High 13's, and they had to work for that.

Needs headers!
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 08, 2021, 01:31:51 PM
  A slick and a stall convertor would have put it in the 12s, with ease. I am suggesting modified engines and would expect 11 second ETs as the slowest. No matter , no one has stepped up , so my money is safe.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: 427heaven on March 12, 2021, 08:52:51 AM
 The difference between a 9- 10 second car and a modified street car running 12-13 second runs is such a huge difference that one might think they are in a different race. The quicker of the two might be returning down the return road after the race, while the other car is still finishing his run. A safe bet here is the king of the hill, is going to get bored counting his money over and over. He might need to invest it in rare SHELBY parts to sweeten the pot for next years event. ;D
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 12, 2021, 09:11:52 AM
The difference between a 9- 10 second car and a modified street car running 12-13 second runs is such a huge difference that one might think they are in a different race. The quicker of the two might be returning down the return road after the race, while the other car is still finishing his run. A safe bet here is the king of the hill, is going to get bored counting his money over and over. He might need to invest it in rare SHELBY parts to sweeten the pot for next years event. ;D

It's pretty much the difference between a dedicated drag car and fast street car.

A race car that can be driven on the street is a world of difference from a fast street car.

Who was the NBA player driving around on the street disguised as Grandmama? Same difference.

My three are all legitimate 12 second cars and in no way or form could be described as drag cars. You're either a wide receiver or a defensive nose tackle. You can't be both except in some sort of bizar fantasy. So I don't exactly see the point.

Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 12, 2021, 10:38:26 AM
Doug there are "TOTALLY" stock production cars that are faster than my "streetable" race car. Two examples are my friends mid ten second ZL1 Corvette. (he competed in Drag Week) and my other friends mid ten second HellCat. He DRIVES it 400+ miles to race at Northern California drag strips at least once a month and gets OVER 20 miles per gallon doing so.My new engine is not SO exotic ( or fragile) that it can't be "street driven" . Control of my EGO is the reason I don't. I'm way past burnouts leaving a car show.  PM on the 351C stuff to get the thread back on track.
   Randy
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 12, 2021, 10:48:47 AM
Doug there are "TOTALLY" stock production cars that are faster than my "streetable" race car. Two examples are my friends mid ten second ZL1 Corvette. (he competed in Drag Week) and my other friends mid ten second HellCat. He DRIVES it 400+ miles to race at Northern California drag strips at least once a month and gets OVER 20 miles per gallon doing so.My new engine is not SO exotic ( or fragile) that it can't be "street driven" . Control of my EGO is the reason I don't. I'm way past burnouts leaving a car show.  PM on the 351C stuff to get the thread back on track.
   Randy

Those aren't cars. Those are computers that the operator turns on, not starts. The Mopar guys are just anal ya-who's who want to do doughnuts in the intersection. They shouldn't even be classified as human. True, they were designated as human at birth but that's about it.

The Corvette you just put on autodrive as you text. Is there some sort of magic in that?

Heck Dave's kid Dalton is in the 8s with his Shelby. What's wrong with that picture? He's been late for Home Room at least twice already this week.


Exactly what track do want this thread on? It was derailed before it even got posted?
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: gt350hr on March 12, 2021, 11:04:10 AM
   I drove the Corvette and it was intimidating for a seasoned veteran like myself. You say stab and steer and a monkey could do it. Well "maybe " a monkey could but he'd better have a diaper on or the seat will be soiled. I almost did. The part throttle driving was like a "normal" Corvette and pleasant.
   In ALL honesty 500+HP vehicles ARE too much for the street. The potential speed is beyond "most" drivers AND other drivers aren't capable of dealing with the potential speed either. Knee jerk responses to a car of that potential often cause crashes by trying to avoid one! "Racing" should be done where it is safe , and that is the main reason I don't drive my '66 on the street any longer.
Title: Re: King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????
Post by: shelbydoug on March 12, 2021, 01:13:24 PM
   I drove the Corvette and it was intimidating for a seasoned veteran like myself. You say stab and steer and a money could do it. Well "maybe " a monkey could but he'd better have a diaper on or the seat will be soiled. I almost did. The part throttle driving was like a "normal" Corvette and pleasant.
   In ALL honesty 500+HP vehicles ARE too much for the street. The potential speed is beyond "most" drivers AND other drivers aren't capable of dealing with the potential speed either. Knee jerk responses to a car of that potential often cause crashes by trying to avoid one! "Racing" should be done where it is safe , and that is the main reason I don't drive my '66 on the street any longer.

Hum? They really aren't diapers. They are standard US Astronaut equipment. As such they are classified and I really can't talk about them.

You are speaking of the go potential but I often think of the stopping potential and in many cases like the Corvette can outstop anything in front or behind them.


There was my Kantor-Fitzgerald "friend" who called me out one day because I had a SAAC Convention shirt on. My other "car enthusiast" friend explained to him what Cobra's, "Shelbys" and GT40's were and he snapped, "WTF do I care, I'll buy all of them!"

It kind of puts that kind of thinking in perspective? You can fly a US fighter plane at star trek kind of speeds and g-forces but it still isn't quite the same as scaring the be-jezus out of yourself in a hairpin turn in a vintage "Shelby" for going just a hair over?

Yep. It's the digital age and it's all like playing a video game sometimes.