SAAC Forum

The Cars => 1965 GT350/R-Model => Topic started by: gbart14 on March 30, 2021, 04:58:17 PM

Title: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: gbart14 on March 30, 2021, 04:58:17 PM
I am looking for as many as I can find of original, taken back in the day, period photos showing the 65 Shelby 3 hole steering wheel. The attached photo was found in Shelby's Wild Life but I need more. If you can identify when the photo was taken and what car it is, that would be great. I am getting very close to having an authentic reproduction of the original 3 hole wheels. A prototype has already been made on the original tooling but there are a few things left to confirm. Thanks
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: 1109RWHP on March 30, 2021, 08:39:56 PM
That does not look like a "Back in the day" picture. There are items in it that look too new.
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: gbart14 on March 30, 2021, 08:47:16 PM
Wellsir, cannot be any newer than 1977 when the book was published. So, yes, could be some newer stuff but no newer than 1977. Anything specific you can identify? Thanks
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: Jbarela on March 30, 2021, 10:32:27 PM
That does not look like a "Back in the day" picture. There are items in it that look too new.
Not sure how your post is intended to help here.
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: s2ms on March 31, 2021, 12:23:06 AM
Have you seen this one of 5S114? Email me if you need a higher res version...

Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: gbart14 on March 31, 2021, 12:34:39 AM
Thanks, so much. email coming shortly.
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: s2ms on March 31, 2021, 10:30:49 AM
Email sent!
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: DRGT350 on March 31, 2021, 07:11:17 PM
gbart -

I had this picture in my files - believe it is car 205 -
it is not a period photo - but hope it helps in some way -
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: gbart14 on April 08, 2021, 11:19:40 AM
It all helps. Thanks for that.
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: 98SVT - was 06GT on April 08, 2021, 11:50:32 AM
That does not look like a "Back in the day" picture. There are items in it that look too new.

Shelby's Wild Life - lots of fiction there. Do not believe one printed word in it. Most of the photos are of COCOA (LA and Orange County) member cars and from their scrapbooks.
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: bsolo66 on April 12, 2021, 09:12:35 AM
I took these at Orlando Mustang during the restoration of 319. It has over 1200 hours in the restoration.
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: CharlesTurner on April 12, 2021, 09:37:58 AM
Color version of 114
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: CharlesTurner on April 12, 2021, 09:42:18 AM
I took these at Orlando Mustang during the restoration of 319. It has over 1200 hours in the restoration.

Looks like the 67 style wheel.  Registry notes 319 was a prototype and had this wheel installed later at some point.
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: gbart14 on April 12, 2021, 11:24:05 AM
Color version of 114
Thanks, Charles. This seems to be the first of the three hole wheels. For my communication purposes with the manufacturer, we are calling this one on 114 "Gen 2A" and the other three hole wheel "Gen 2B" with the early 16" split wheel with slotted spokes being "Gen 1" and the later 15" wheel with slotted spokes being "Gen 3". We are also aware that there were different thicknesses of wood produced at different times with no recorded history of precise dimensions. But, we are still digging.

Everyone keep in mind that my original goal was to get a correct reproduction wheel for my 5S243 and in the process, I made the discoveries. I am also on a quest to find a decent Chrome plated pot metal hub.

In summary and for my internal records with the manufacturer and my collaborators and knowing that there may be other variants yet to be discovered:

Gen 1 = 16" slotted wheel split in the middle
Gen 2A = 15" three hole wheels with hole size and pattern like 114 and 117 that I have seen photos of. Gen 2A holes measure approximately* as follows: .480, .630, .890 inches.
Gen 2B = 15" three hole wheel that has hole size and pattern like this one shown from Rich Williams. This one seems to be the most prevalent of the 3 hole wheels. Gen 2B holes measure approximately* as follows: .623, .660, .830 inches.
Gen 3 = 15" slotted wheel installed somewhere after / around 256

Note: I have been told that a very few cars were supplied with prototypes of what became the 66 optional wood rim 4 hole wheel.

* I say approximately because hole diameter precision in the manufacturing process was not that important back in the day. Plus, I have personally only measured two of the 2B wheels with input from others on the 2A wheels.

From what I have seen in print and from SAAC officials this is the history of the steering wheels:

"001 to about 113 had the 16-inch Cobra 289, slotted, wood wheel with the aluminum hub.
109 - 256 for the most part had the slightly flatter dished 15-inch wood wheel with three holes present per spoke with the chrome plated steel hub.
257 - 562 had the 15-inch slotted wood wheel with chrome steel hub."

A few updates to this quoted info: I have been told that the hubs were chrome plated pot metal, not steel. We also now know for sure that there were at least 2 versions of the 3 hole wheel. More to come as I discover it.

FYI, Springall says they will make a small run of both the 2A and 2B wheels. Mine needs the 2B so that is my focus.

If you really want to get into the detail, the wheels from that part of our history were made from strips of wood (mostly mahogany) bent and laid up circumferentially around the rim in a hoop manner and all glued together in a kind of mold. They were then cut and installed onto the stamp-pressed aluminum frame with rivets. The driver would then be facing the beautiful edges of the wood. The repros that I have seen lately are laminated front to back like plywood such that the laminations can only be seen from the edges or where the contour has been carved. It is this specific issue that got me started when I purchased what I thought was a correct wheel from a respected supplier and they told me they do not make wheels with circumferential strips any longer. Another interesting point of blurred history is that the circumferential strip method was performed by a company called Coventry Timber Bending (quaint, yes?) and it is thought that they supplied the laid up blanks and perhaps complete wheels to many of the early wheel makers as early as 1938 for many of the elegant cars and boats of the day.
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: Bob Gaines on April 12, 2021, 03:00:47 PM
I took these at Orlando Mustang during the restoration of 319. It has over 1200 hours in the restoration.

Looks like the 67 style wheel.  Registry notes 319 was a prototype and had this wheel installed later at some point.
I agree It does looks like a 67 wheel but more likely one of the versions of 65/66 over the counter versions given the turn signal canceler of a 67 wheel will not work on a 65/66 and vise versa .
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: Jbarela on April 21, 2021, 01:07:27 PM
Here are some pics.
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: Jbarela on April 21, 2021, 01:09:21 PM
Close ups
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: gbart14 on April 21, 2021, 02:47:06 PM
This one looks like the first gen 3 hole wheel which I am calling Gen IIA with Gen I being the 16" wheel.

Am still looking for period photos taken back in the day showing steering wheels installed on Shelbys.

Thanks
Title: Re: Authentic Period photos needed of 1965 3 hole GT350 steering wheels
Post by: Jbarela on April 21, 2021, 07:22:44 PM
And for note the bolt pattern for this 3 hole wheel does not match the later 15" slotted wheels bolt pattern. This wheel  came with an aluminum hub so maybe it's an early version of the 3 hole wheel that mates only to the aluminum hub as it wont mate to the chromed cast hub.