Hello all, working with another member here on this.
Need some information and possible pics please. Would like some pictures of both plastic and metal thread switches, need to know what the thread size is for both switches also. Measurements taken of the switch handle as well. Thank you all.
Jimmy,
Plastic thread horn switched. A repro and original.
Thread size looks about 7/16",
Dave
Thanks Dave, I appreciate your help so much. Here is a picture of an original one with the chrome retainer nut that sold on Mecum from the John Atzbach collection for a very pretty penny. And a picture of mine with plastic retaining nut, need correct chrome retaining nut for it but dont know the size. Bought a few lucas switches from the UK but they dont work.
Quote from: Jbarela on April 07, 2021, 12:59:30 AM
Thanks Dave, I appreciate your help so much. Here is a picture of an original one with the chrome retainer nut that sold on Mecum from the John Atzbach collection for a very pretty penny. And a picture of mine with plastic retaining nut, need correct chrome retaining nut for it but dont know the size. Bought a few lucas switches from the UK but they dont work.
Regardless of where and how much it sold for the picture does not appear to be of a original 65 Shelby switch . The terminal arrangement is different then typical genuine.
+1 I totally agree with Bob . That is not an original.
My heart is sinking here, I won't throw names out that validated, I hope my friend chimes in here. Thanks guys for your posts and info!
How many different switches were used in 65? I have seen all metal with metal shafted lever, seen the plastic one with the metal shafted lever, was there a plastic with plastic lever like the one I posted but with a correct as noted terminal orientation?
Quote from: Jbarela on April 06, 2021, 04:06:16 PM
Hello all, working with another member here on this.
Need some information and possible pics please. Would like some pictures of both plastic and metal thread switches, need to know what the thread size is for both switches also. Measurements taken of the switch handle as well. Thank you all.
https://shelbypartsstore.com/?product=original-1965-gt350-horn-toggle-switch
Alternatives are out there.
Maybe not the best but less expensive.
My original exactly like Mecum auction unit.
Quote from: Rickmustang on April 07, 2021, 10:57:51 AM
My original exactly like Mecum auction unit.
The bottom side should look like the picture in reply #1 on the left for it to have the typical look of a genuine one. That picture does not seem to match the terminal placement on the Jimmy picture.
On the subject of the horn switch, was it normally mounted in an up/down fashion...12 being off 6 actuated returning to 12 when released or???
The reason for asking is that over at Concours forum Jeff Speigel has a picture with the switch mounted in a angled position? (See picture)
Is there a more correct way to mount?
What is considered correct or??
For a small item it sure brings up a lot of questions.
Quote from: Clone65 on April 07, 2021, 12:54:36 PM
On the subject of the horn switch, was it normally mounted in an up/down fashion...12 being off 6 actuated returning to 12 when released or???
The reason for asking is that over at Concours forum Jeff Speigel has a picture with the switch mounted in a angled position? (See picture)
Is there a more correct way to mount?
What is considered correct or??
For a small item it sure brings up a lot of questions.
They were typically mounted so that the toggle would move up and down. That one looks to be rotated at a off angle.
Quote from: Clone65 on April 07, 2021, 12:54:36 PM
On the subject of the horn switch, was it normally mounted in an up/down fashion...12 being off 6 actuated returning to 12 when released or???
The reason for asking is that over at Concours forum Jeff Speigel has a picture with the switch mounted in a angled position? (See picture)
Is there a more correct way to mount?
What is considered correct or??
For a small item it sure brings up a lot of questions.
That one looks to be mounted for a Side To Side action. Driver wearing Gloves while Racing with both hands on the Wheel, it would be much easier for him to just extend a couple fingers over to push the Lever towards the Steering Column to activate the horn and then release it. Sorta like Paddle Shifters but not.
Quote from: tesgt350 on April 07, 2021, 03:56:04 PM
Quote from: Clone65 on April 07, 2021, 12:54:36 PM
On the subject of the horn switch, was it normally mounted in an up/down fashion...12 being off 6 actuated returning to 12 when released or???
The reason for asking is that over at Concours forum Jeff Speigel has a picture with the switch mounted in a angled position? (See picture)
Is there a more correct way to mount?
What is considered correct or??
For a small item it sure brings up a lot of questions.
That one looks to be mounted for a Side To Side action. Driver wearing Gloves while Racing with both hands on the Wheel, it would be much easier for him to just extend a couple fingers over to push the Lever towards the Steering Column to activate the horn and then release it. Sorta like Paddle Shifters but not.
The question was "what is considered correct" as it pertains to the position of the horn switch. I am sure it was meant in the context of the way SA mounted them. Of course a owner can easily personalize adjust the position of the switch to their needs. Surely you are kidding given honking the horn while racing , with or without gloves is not a common occurrence .
Old age may be creeping in but, to my recollection, back in the '60's, the SCCA rule book required a horn. In order to save weight and to stick a "finger" to the scrutineers, many resorted to mounting a plastic, squeeze-the-bulb bicycle horn on their racecars.
The original toggle switch was made by Raydyot (U.K) and had article number S34. Supplier to Shelby was a company called Haan located at Santa Monica Blvd in Los Angeles. The switch sold for $1.95 in 1965. When I bought 5S275 in Feb. 1988 it was
missing the switch but a few years later I saw an ad in Hemmings. Randy DeLisio sold a broken original switch for $10.
I bought it together with the 4 original front shock bolts. The only problem with the switch was a broken plastic track inside
which I was able to fix with a sleeve. I works fine and is in my car still. See pictures.
Texas Swede
One more picture.
Texas Swede
Thanks for the detail. Your switch has a metal stem and plastic threads. Later ones that I was told were replacements had the same metal stem but with metal threads - agreed? Both have what looks like a "B" logo on the back side plus they both have screw on connections. Does anyone know if the B is Bulgin switch co in the UK? Of interest for some is that Arcolectric made a very similar switch (also bakalite body and same orientation connections but push on or solder on vs screw on) and is now owned by Bulgin. Might Bulgin (or whatever the B company was) be the supplier to Raydyot? I discovered the Bulgin / Arcolectric connection because I am searching for the chrome bezel nut with correct imperial threads. Readily available present day Lucas switches are close but do not thread properly which leads me to believe they are metric threads. The all plastic switches like the Atzbach and one I have also have the exact same thread as the "B" switch and the vintage Arcolectric switch. So, there must be some proper fit chrome bezel nuts out there somewhere. I post this because some of you may be looking for a bezel nut that fits. My thread gauge says the threads on the B and Arcolectric are 32 TPI. My calipers say the outside diameter of the male thread is .456" and the inside dia of the correct nut I have is .425" which I do not find as a standard thread profile. Anybody know what the thread call out is? Thanks
I believe the marking on the back is a R for Raydyot.
Texas Swede
I checked on a spare switch I have with the metal stem and threads (threads I painted black)
It's an R on the logo mark in the back.
Texas Swede
My switch is exactly like Bo's. That is a 1965 GT-350 horn switch.
Later replacement?
That almost infers that it was a service part from SAI, would be interesting to document that.
There are correctly threaded bezels out there. I personally took my original to Bavaria some years back where it was duplicated along with spares.
Besides my spare. I have no idea where they ended up.
Thank you all for chiming in!
Question for you Bo, without more info stated is it a fact that the 65 shelbys came with two variations of the Raydyot switch? One being the plastic thread with metal stem and one with metal threads and metal stem? Wonder if its documented if there is two variations and when was the change over at SAI. Maybe a large lot was purchased with both variations and they were thrown in a bin and randomly placed on the cars? I cant find documentation as to what numbered cars have what switches.
no variations during production, only plastic tread on original GT350 .
Quote from: chris NOS on April 08, 2021, 01:58:14 PM
no variations during production, only plastic tread on original GT350 .
So where are these metal thread ones coming from like Bo's.
So a metal threaded switch is incorrect for a 65 shelby then? Why do so many 65s have metal threaded ones?
Quote from: Jbarela on April 08, 2021, 02:10:07 PM
Quote from: chris NOS on April 08, 2021, 01:58:14 PM
no variations during production, only plastic tread on original GT350 .
So where are these metal thread ones coming from like Bo's.
So a metal threaded switch is incorrect for a 65 shelby then? Why do so many 65s have metal threaded ones?
I believe the transition to the steel version was a evolution of the design . The plastic ones broke and were replaced with metal threaded version. The readily available supply of the plastic version ran out and more and more and were replaced with the less problematic steel threaded version as time went on . This is the most logical explanation IMO . If someone has a better one I would like to hear it.
Jbarela: are you attributing steel threaded switches to Bo? No insult intended, I might have missed something?
Bob Gaines: was there a change from plastic threaded, metal stemmed switches during 65 production? Here too I may have missed that and need to be brought up to speed.
There have been all manner of ersatz switches feigned as original or replacement over the years (and I have even assisted in the replication of my original years ago as I've mentioned), but I have never seen a metal threaded original (yet).
THX, Steve A
Quote from: camp upshur on April 08, 2021, 03:01:02 PM
Jbarela: are you attributing steel threaded switches to Bo? No insult intended, I might have missed something?
Bob Gaines: was there a change from plastic threaded, metal stemmed switches during 65 production? Here too I may have missed that and need to be brought up to speed.
There have been all manner of ersatz switches feigned as original or replacement over the years (and I have even assisted in the replication of my original years ago as I've mentioned), but I have never seen a metal threaded original (yet).
THX, Steve A
Hi steve, no of course not but things do read black and white sometimes I was just referring to the picture he posted. No insult taken we have all been on here to long for that. But thank you for asking that for clarification.
Quote from: chris NOS on April 08, 2021, 01:58:14 PM
no variations during production, only plastic tread on original GT350 .
+1 Black plastic threaded was the only type/one used during the entire 65 GT350 run. Period!
Cheers,
~Earl J
Quote from: camp upshur on April 08, 2021, 03:01:02 PM
Jbarela: are you attributing steel threaded switches to Bo? No insult intended, I might have missed something?
Bob Gaines: was there a change from plastic threaded, metal stemmed switches during 65 production? Here too I may have missed that and need to be brought up to speed.
There have been all manner of ersatz switches feigned as original or replacement over the years (and I have even assisted in the replication of my original years ago as I've mentioned), but I have never seen a metal threaded original (yet).
THX, Steve A
I can't say for 100% sure if any of the steel threaded versions were used in 65 production but I do not think so.
Gentleman... I tell you I know so much for our 66s from my restoration because of you all, but I know nothing of 65s so thank you for every ones help and support. This is the help and support I like to see on our forum not the bashing and whose right and who's wrong. It takes a village to raise a Shelby.
In summary
All 65 shelbys came from SAI with black plastic threads with metal stalks. As those original installed switches broke from use by their owners, the period correct replacement that was available at the time, made by the same manufacture Raydyot, were the metal threaded switches with the metal stalk also holding the makers logo in the back "R" which looks like a B with my bad eyes.
The switch with the metal thread has the same logo as the plastic one. I bought it from U.K. some years ago.
The handle was white so I painted it black together with the metal thread. Checked the logo with a magnifying glass
and it's definitely an R.
Texas Swede
So here is the one from Shelby Parts I am getting.
It looks like the one I bought from U.K. some years ago.
Texas Swede
Make the threads look black and you are good to go.
I am glad to know that it's the original metal thread switch used for replacement. I like the black paint idea!
Don't forget to paint the front black as well and leave the stem and rivets natural steel.
Texas Swede
It would be interesting to me to see a Raydyot logo on any Raydyot item of any kind that looks like the "B" or "R" on the back side of these switches. In my hunt, I found a seller of Mini parts in the UK who stated the Raydyot switches were made by Arcolectric of England who is owned by Bulgin of UK. Vintage Arcolectric and the B type switches share the same thread size and pitch as does the Atzbach all plastic switch. Nowhere in any of my searches for Raydyot have I seen a Raydyot logo that looks like the logo on the back side of the switch. If there is something out there, it would be fun to see it. If we could determine who really made those switches for Raydyot, then we might be a step closer to the grail.
Now that the correct switch has been identified as well as the correct replacement it is interesting to find out about the logo in the backs of them. I found this picture of a vintage Raydyot switch and it has an interesting looking R logo on it. Have not found any other pics so far.
Yes, the R looks almost like a J and B together.
Texas Swede
I have seen this photo before but the logo does not match what you see on the back side of the "original" switch, whoever made them. Note this one looks to be all plastic just like the Atzbach switch.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/703/6sa6.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/713/xlqy.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/823/kn52.jpg)
the original from 241 and the one i have on the car actualy , because when i make my kids driving it on my knees , they can honk too and not risking to brake the original !! :D
5S228 originally had the plastic threads and did not do well and was "retired". The attached is the switch currently installed.
Sorry, did not get picture of the R on the backside. But its there.
Here is a close up of the back side of the switch. I am not sure if one can state emphatically this is an R or a B. I would love to see other evidence of this logo displayed on another product from anyone, Raydyot, Bulgin, Arcolectric, or whomever made it. I do know that the Arcolectric and Bulgin switch bodies from that period were both made from bakalite like this one and have the same exact threads on them. I have examples of them.
My money is on "R".
Are the Raydyot switch with the metal threads still available from local vendors?
Quote from: paul on April 17, 2021, 04:51:01 PM
Are the Raydyot switch with the metal threads still available from local vendors?
I have not found one anywhere from them yet!
Quote from: gbart14 on April 10, 2021, 12:49:07 PM
Here is a close up of the back side of the switch. I am not sure if one can state emphatically this is an R or a B. I would love to see other evidence of this logo displayed on another product from anyone, Raydyot, Bulgin, Arcolectric, or whomever made it. I do know that the Arcolectric and Bulgin switch bodies from that period were both made from bakalite like this one and have the same exact threads on them. I have examples of them.
another close up