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SAAC HQ => Concours Talk => Topic started by: nightmist67 on June 01, 2021, 07:19:42 PM

Title: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: nightmist67 on June 01, 2021, 07:19:42 PM
What is the correct configuration (carpet type; vinyl mat shape(s) and locations (w/ or w/o toe pad); vinyl mat color) for a 1969 GT350 convertible (maroon with white upholstery) built in  December 1968? 

Does/can anyone produce an accurate reproduction carpet for this application?  The only commercially produced  carpeting that I have found so far is a NPD listing of carpeting for a 1969 Shelby convertible (black raylon with red vinyl rectangular mat inserts in all four footwell locations). 

Any applicable illustrations of the correct configuration would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 01, 2021, 07:25:43 PM
What is the correct configuration (carpet type; vinyl mat shape(s) and locations (w/ or w/o toe pad); vinyl mat color) for a 1969 GT350 convertible (maroon with white upholstery) built in  December 1968? 

Does/can anyone produce an accurate reproduction carpet for this application?  The only commercially produced  carpeting that I have found so far is a NPD listing of carpeting for a 1969 Shelby convertible (black raylon with red vinyl rectangular mat inserts in all four footwell locations). 

Any applicable illustrations of the correct configuration would be appreciated.
The convertible "typically" got the black inserts and the fastback the red/orange.
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: Bat-turn on June 01, 2021, 09:33:18 PM
Back in 1975 My 70 GT500 conv. had black and my buddies 70 GT500 FB had Red carpet inserts, I still have my car and his was stole long ago
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: J_Speegle on June 02, 2021, 04:45:08 AM
Does/can anyone produce an accurate reproduction carpet for this application?  The only commercially produced  carpeting that I have found so far is a NPD listing of carpeting for a 1969 Shelby convertible (black raylon with red vinyl rectangular mat inserts in all four footwell locations). 

For your white interior Shelby Convertible just order a standard black interior Mustang convertible carpet with just a heel pad. They will make them that way. Once received remember to open the box and double check just in case. Check for other issue while your at it because if you wait months it will be much more difficult to return and have the problems fixed or the carpet replaced

The whole white interior effects the carpet on both Shelby fastbacks and convertible in 69-70.  Though there have been a very few fastbacks that receive regular Mach I (red insert) carpets because a supply issue or because some one was not paying enough attention on the assembly line

Allot of this has been muddied over the years since allot of owners changed style when they replaced the original carpet

Have a fair number of pictures but its early morning. Believe this has all been discussed with pictures before but might have been before the big crash and wipe
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: shelbymann1970 on June 02, 2021, 05:25:30 AM
Does/can anyone produce an accurate reproduction carpet for this application?  The only commercially produced  carpeting that I have found so far is a NPD listing of carpeting for a 1969 Shelby convertible (black raylon with red vinyl rectangular mat inserts in all four footwell locations). 

For your white interior Shelby Convertible just order a standard black interior Mustang convertible carpet with just a heel pad. They will make them that way. Once received remember to open the box and double check just in case. Check for other issue while your at it because if you wait months it will be much more difficult to return and have the problems fixed or the carpet replaced

The whole white interior effects the carpet on both Shelby fastbacks and convertible in 69-70.  Though there have been a very few fastbacks that receive regular Mach I (red insert) carpets because a supply issue or because some one was not paying enough attention on the assembly line

Allot of this has been muddied over the years since allot of owners changed style when they replaced the original carpet

Have a fair number of pictures but its early morning. Believe this has all been discussed with pictures before but might have been before the big crash and wipe
So to be clear you are talking about white interior FB Shelbys not getting the red inserted carpet? So what should they have? 4 black inserts or just the standard interior DS front heel pad?

 All black interior FB Shelbys should have gotten the red inserts?

 I have seen to be the norm of white interior FBs on the SAAC NV site with white interior and red insert carpet and other internet searches. So this is not the norm, Jeff?

 There should also be no red stripes on the white seats in FBs-correct(looks hideous when it is there)?

These questions have been posed to me recently and I could not answer with a 100 percent certainty-only what I have seen.

So I have also seen a blue 69 Mach1 online that was a thoroughbred car and no red inserted carpet on his white interior. http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/1704-a-perfect-1969-mustang-mach-1//photo-gallery/#/   
So again, is this the norm on a white interior for 63C interiors that you know of?'

 So how does the white interior affect the carpet on verts? I have a black interior with just the heel pad on my DS front. No other mats. How would a white interior affect that? Shouldn't it be the same-heel pad on DS front only and black carpet?  Thanks. Gary
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: shelbymann1970 on June 02, 2021, 06:03:19 AM
What is the correct configuration (carpet type; vinyl mat shape(s) and locations (w/ or w/o toe pad); vinyl mat color) for a 1969 GT350 convertible (maroon with white upholstery) built in  December 1968? 

Does/can anyone produce an accurate reproduction carpet for this application?  The only commercially produced  carpeting that I have found so far is a NPD listing of carpeting for a 1969 Shelby convertible (black raylon with red vinyl rectangular mat inserts in all four footwell locations). 

Any applicable illustrations of the correct configuration would be appreciated.
The convertible "typically" got the black inserts and the fastback the red/orange.
So my vert (May 69) only had the standard carpet in it when I replaced in 1990. Ed saw my car and said to cut the toe pad out which I did. So do you mean "insert" as in one or all 4? Did Ford actually product a Mach1 carpet with 4 black inserts? My take being in the midwest was mostly black interiors with the red inserts. I had a friend who in 1977 bought a low mileage 1 owner Acapulco blue original paint S code Mach1 with a white interior. It had white shag carpet in it and on the door panels. When he took out the white carpet(over laid on the black) it revealed the best looking red inserts I had ever seen to this day on a 69. That is why I remember it Bob. As with my questions to Jeff I'm trying to learn the nuances of white interior "Mach1" 63C cars and also 76B verts. Gary
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: Coralsnake on June 02, 2021, 10:54:10 AM
I will do a webpage sometime soon

Here is what I think so far 🤔...

Fastbacks

Black interior/ black carpet with red inserts / red stripe on black seats

White interior/ black carpet with red inserts / no stripe on white seats

Red interior/ red carpet with red inserts/ no stripe on red seats

Convertible

Black interior/ black carpet with black inserts /  no stripe on seats*

White interior/ black carpet with black inserts / no stripe on seats

No Red interiors


I think there might be some oddities, so I will update as needed

*some later cars may have had red stripes
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: shelbymann1970 on June 02, 2021, 11:26:56 AM
I will do a webpage sometime soon

Here is what I think so far 🤔...

Fastbacks

Black interior/ black carpet with red inserts / red stripe on black seats

White interior/ black carpet with red inserts / no stripe on white seats

Red interior/ red carpet with red inserts/ no stripe on red seats

Convertible

Black interior/ black carpet with black inserts /  no stripe on seats*

White interior/ black carpet with black inserts / no stripe on seats

No Red interiors


I think there might be some oddities, so I will update as needed

*some later cars may have had red stripes
My vert never had 4 inserts in the carpet just like Boss 9s didn't with the same basic deluxe interior. When Ed looked at my car many years ago he said cut the toe pad out and the carpet is correct.
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: Coralsnake on June 02, 2021, 11:31:24 AM
A convertible carpet and a Boss9 carpet really cant be compared

My understanding is the bodystyle is the determining factor
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: shelbymann1970 on June 02, 2021, 01:07:05 PM
A convertible carpet and a Boss9 carpet really cant be compared

My understanding is the bodystyle is the determining factor
my take was both got the same interior as a Mach1 but without the red carpet inserts or red stripes on black seats. That's all. Only 63C designated cars should have gotten the red inserts. Bosses like Shelby verts were "B's 63B and 76B. My next question is about the black inserts. 4? I don't recall seeing anything but red inserts in the rear of any 69 Mustang over my years. I not saying it didn't happen but my take on owning many 69s. I'm still learning and want to know what is correct so thanks for the help on this. Gary
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: Coralsnake on June 02, 2021, 02:12:14 PM
I think the convertible floor carpet is going to be molded differently and therefore not interchangeable.

The red stripe on the seats is an artifact of the Mach 1 interior, so its not normally found on convertibles.
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: shelbymann1970 on June 02, 2021, 03:19:40 PM
I think the convertible floor carpet is going to be molded differently and therefore not interchangeable.

The red stripe on the seats is an artifact of the Mach 1 interior, so its not normally found on convertibles.
I agree on that. the carpet is different.  My take is that verts only got the heel pad in the carpet on the drivers side. No other pads. My car only had the heel pad in it. The only cars with red stripes on the seats are 63C models. All others with comfortweave got no red stripe(black interiors). Bosses, deluxe FBs, etc. that had the comfortweave highback as the optional upholstery. Here are a few verts with car numbers. last one has toe pad in carpet so replaced carpet.
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: J_Speegle on June 02, 2021, 03:49:38 PM
Before I begin responding some history. Aver ten year ago during the review of judging rules. During this process and with some questions that came up from some that were restoring 69-70 Shelbys and 69 Mach I's se revisted some long standing rules and understanding and question how they were determined and if there were documentation of those. That began a study that eventually changed the written rules in both MCA and SAAC judging rules I think this was over ten years ago. Sure I could figure out the exact date  for SAAC would have taken place when we did the big rewrite at least.



So to be clear you are talking about white interior FB Shelbys not getting the red inserted carpet? So what should they have? 4 black inserts or just the standard interior DS front heel pad?

 All black interior FB Shelbys should have gotten the red inserts?

Like Mach I's of the same period that appears to be well documented.  Forgive me if I try and stay on thread for a moment (white convertible 69 -70 Shelby and 76B white interior Mustang convertible


So how does the white interior affect the carpet on verts? I have a black interior with just the heel pad on my DS front. No other mats. How would a white interior affect that? Shouldn't it be the same-heel pad on DS front only and black carpet?  Thanks. Gary

The color of the interior on the deluxe/Mach I interior does effect the carpet installed originally it appears based on unrestored cars. For the convertible have been able to document that Ford ever made a convertible carpet with four red inserts in it. Original interior cars show only a black heel pad for the drivers floor section
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: shelbymann1970 on June 02, 2021, 03:59:28 PM
Before I begin responding some history. Aver ten year ago during the review of judging rules. During this process and with some questions that came up from some that were restoring 69-70 Shelbys and 69 Mach I's se revisted some long standing rules and understanding and question how they were determined and if there were documentation of those. That began a study that eventually changed the written rules in both MCA and SAAC judging rules I think this was over ten years ago. Sure I could figure out the exact date  for SAAC would have taken place when we did the big rewrite at least.



So to be clear you are talking about white interior FB Shelbys not getting the red inserted carpet? So what should they have? 4 black inserts or just the standard interior DS front heel pad?

 All black interior FB Shelbys should have gotten the red inserts?

Like Mach I's of the same period that appears to be well documented.  Forgive me if I try and stay on thread for a moment (white convertible 69 -70 Shelby and 76B white interior Mustang convertible


So how does the white interior affect the carpet on verts? I have a black interior with just the heel pad on my DS front. No other mats. How would a white interior affect that? Shouldn't it be the same-heel pad on DS front only and black carpet?  Thanks. Gary
The color of the interior on the deluxe/Mach I interior does effect the carpet installed originally it appears based on unrestored cars. For the convertible have been able to document that Ford ever made a convertible carpet with four red inserts in it. Original interior cars show only a black heel pad for the drivers floor section
So I am under the impression that Mach1s could only be had with a white, red or black interior in 1969 so red inserts on carpet on  all 3? I know going back to 1970s with my friend's all original 2 owner Acapulco Blue Mach it had red inserts on a white interior car.
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: Special Ed on June 07, 2021, 01:33:03 PM
Convertible carpet is uniquely moulded with only a heel pad that is not as wide as coupe fastback because of the vert inner rockers that support the body since they dont have a roof like hardtops so the vert carpet is moulded out 2-3" around the inner rockers before it drops down unlike a hardtop carpet drops down by sill plates. I have black interior 69 shelby verts that have red stripe seats but i think some were put in cars by mistake. Red insert carpet was a  69 mach 1 only thing and 69 shelbys stated out being mach1s. The problem is so many cars have had carpet replaced by now and car owners bought whatever was sold to them or what was available or what they liked at that time. The problem i see is 69 shelby fastbacks with white interior some have red inserts and some have regular carpet with the heel pad only and i dont know if that was a running change or what. I think the red carpet inserts on white interior fastback shelbys looks odd. The front carpet is the same on coupe and cougars and fastbacks but the rear is different around the back seat area. Early 69 mustangs  may have the toe plate like the 68s .
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: J_Speegle on June 07, 2021, 02:34:17 PM
So I am under the impression that Mach1s could only be had with a white, red or black interior in 1969 so red inserts on carpet on  all 3? I know going back to 1970s with my friend's all original 2 owner Acapulco Blue Mach it had red inserts on a white interior car.


That was the challenge when we went to look at original cars with what appear to be original carpet and found the lack of red inserts on the examples. As mentioned were were a few with the red inserts (with white interior) but they were the minority during the survey as well over a ten year period and could be explained by a supply interruption or a mistake on the line. Never enough to chart to see if there was a pattern.
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: shelbymann1970 on June 07, 2021, 02:39:06 PM
Convertible carpet is uniquely moulded with only a heel pad that is not as wide as coupe fastback because of the vert inner rockers that support the body since they dont have a roof like hardtops so the vert carpet is moulded out 2-3" around the inner rockers before it drops down unlike a hardtop carpet drops down by sill plates. I have black interior 69 shelby verts that have red stripe seats but i think some were put in cars by mistake. Red insert carpet was a  69 mach 1 only thing and 69 shelbys stated out being mach1s. The problem is so many cars have had carpet replaced by now and car owners bought whatever was sold to them or what was available or what they liked at that time. The problem i see is 69 shelby fastbacks with white interior some have red inserts and some have regular carpet with the heel pad only and i dont know if that was a running change or what. I think the red carpet inserts on white interior fastback shelbys looks odd. The front carpet is the same on coupe and cougars and fastbacks but the rear is different around the back seat area. Early 69 mustangs  may have the toe plate like the 68s .
What really looks horrible is the red stripe on white seats. Outside vendors must have offered that and those cars I have seen like that must have replacement upholstery. There is a 69 Mach1 I found online. Blue car. Thoroughbred car the article says. White interior and standard carpet. So I will assume in MCA T-bred standard carpet with a white interior(no seat stripe to be clear) is OK on "63C" cars..
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: Hotrod Hillbilly on June 10, 2021, 01:59:03 PM
 After over 40+ years in the auto repair/restoration business, specializing in the upholstery/trimmer. It is my observation that I would have to agree with what Coralsnake said. My Shelby sat for 40 years with 72,000 original miles with only a repaint. The car is Gulfstream Aqua, white interior, with only red inserts in the carpet. The carpet had never been out of the car before, as when i pulled it out all the underlayment was still in place and undisturbed, all  the correct seatbelt washers and sealer was there and in the correct order, plus the seat bolts under the car only left one semi circle mark left by the nut/washer. the only time I have seen white seats with Red inserts or Black carpet with four black inserts was when they were made by an aftermarket company. Just my observation.
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: Coralsnake on June 10, 2021, 07:42:06 PM
Thank you. I appreciate your feedback.
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: J_Speegle on June 10, 2021, 11:25:09 PM
............... the only time I have seen white seats with Red inserts or Black carpet with four black inserts was when they were made by an aftermarket company. Just my observation.

Believe the comparison currently is between the Mach I style carpet with four red inserts and the use of standard interior carpet (one heal pad insert) in red and white interior cars

Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: J_Speegle on June 10, 2021, 11:28:19 PM
Since we're posting observations and memories I've seen a number of white interior fastback Shelby's with standard black interior carpet used. No pads expect for the since drivers side - no toe pad. Not a style I'm aware of being reproduced in the past. Same goes for red interior cars. red standard interior carpet. Just the single toe pad - not heal pad like also used on non- Mach I fastback interiors. Believe all those examples have been on Mach I's but may have included one or two of the 69 Shelby's
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: shelbymann1970 on June 11, 2021, 05:23:58 AM
Since we're posting observations and memories I've seen a number of white interior fastback Shelby's with standard black interior carpet used. No pads expect for the since drivers side - no toe pad. Not a style I'm aware of being reproduced in the past. Same goes for red interior cars. red standard interior carpet. Just the single toe pad - not heal pad like also used on non- Mach I fastback interiors. Believe all those examples have been on Mach I's but may have included one or two of the 69 Shelby's
Jeff this article is on the web about a t-bred 69 Mach1 white interior and pics to me shows standard interior carpet. http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/1704-a-perfect-1969-mustang-mach-1//photo-gallery/#/
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: Coralsnake on June 11, 2021, 06:54:43 AM
For the purposes of my research, I am always open to differences. I do not put much stock in restored cars based on previous judging experiences and knowing what goes on.

Thank you both

Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: shelbymann1970 on June 11, 2021, 07:00:52 AM
For the purposes of my research, I am always open to differences. I do not put much stock in restored cars based on previous judging experiences and knowing what goes on.

Thank you both
Are you referring to my link above about the T-bred 69 Mach1?  I have mentioned I remember quite vividly back around 1978 when a friend decided to remove the white shag carpet out of his low mileage 2 owner white interior S-code AC blue Mach1. It had perfect red inserts in the black carpet. I was amazed how bright they were because most of the  Mach1s I had seen the inserts had dirtied to a "darker" red. I wondered if this T-bred Mach1 in my link  was correct or not? Gary
Title: Re: Early Production 1969 Shelby Convertible Carpeting
Post by: Tor on June 25, 2021, 09:44:18 AM
My 70 500 conv buildt 21 of february 69 has black insert in carpet and no stripes on the seats.

Tor