SAAC Forum

Deals and Appeals => Up For Auction => Topic started by: BGlover67 on April 17, 2018, 05:58:49 PM

Title: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: BGlover67 on April 17, 2018, 05:58:49 PM
Not mine, but serious big block block attitude.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Mercury-Cougar-GT-E-XR7/282927743733?hash=item41dfcec2f5:g:oWMAAOSwCUtamqaI&vxp=mtr




1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7  427 Side Oiler


Purchased this car on eBay from WCCC many years ago and finally finished the restoration




3rd Place winner at the Mercury 50th Anniversary Show at Ford Headquarters in 2017






MORE images and contact info at https://vmcboss.com/1968-cougar-427-gt-e-xr7







BUY NOW and I will store until Woodward cruise, then you can drive or ship it home



WILL SHIP WORLDWIDE



Buy It Now: $159,000 or Make Best Offer
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: gt350hr on April 17, 2018, 06:45:44 PM
   That is big bucks for an under hood lacking MANY correct parts. I'll pass.
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: Coralsnake on April 17, 2018, 08:25:41 PM
I normally dont comment on other people cars for sale unless asked, but I dont think thats Grecian Gold (ie., Sunlit on a Mustang) unless the lighting is throwing it off
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: Bigfoot on April 17, 2018, 08:57:55 PM
Smog?
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: 69mach351w on April 17, 2018, 09:05:56 PM
What's with the "Dynocorn" looking body??
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: J_Speegle on April 17, 2018, 09:22:22 PM
   That is big bucks for an under hood lacking MANY correct parts. I'll pass.

Just the presence of two service decals under the hood would make many question the level of choices and correctness elsewhere
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: 2112 on April 17, 2018, 09:49:57 PM
Am I reading the Marti report correctly; they made 256 427 sideoiler Cougars?
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: Bob Gaines on April 17, 2018, 10:01:49 PM
Am I reading the Marti report correctly; they made 256 427 sideoiler Cougars?
Weren't they hydraulic lifter 427 top oilers?
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: 65A KGT on April 17, 2018, 10:06:36 PM
There were 357 W-Code [427 Side Oiler] Cougars produced for the 1968 model year. 256 were XR-7's, 101 were standards. All are GT-E's except one which is actually an XR-7 upgraded with the 427-4V GT-E engine.
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: Bigfoot on April 17, 2018, 10:33:21 PM
All the sites say Side Oiler but so think not.
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: 6s1640 on April 18, 2018, 12:55:11 AM
I remember seeing this car go up on auction years ago.  It did need a lot of help.  I am not sure how many GTE and 427 parts needed to be chased down, but that will for the next owners trials and tribulations if the correct parts are missing.  Looks like a lot of metal work too.  The GTE Cougar is the one to get for Cougar aficionados.

WCCC sold two GTE's in a very short time.

I remember back in circa 1983, there was a red 427 GTE Cougar at Wade's Auto Wrecking in Vancouver Washington.  I was in Wichita and my buddy Laurence went and drove the car.  Every body panel and interior pieces was dented or cut, but it was the real deal with the original drive train.  I told him he needed to buy, but a deal could not be made.  It was offered at $2500.  Dang   :'(

Take care

Cory
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: BGlover67 on April 18, 2018, 06:19:33 AM
missed opportunities.
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: shelbydoug on April 18, 2018, 07:22:59 AM
It is a rare car but the 427 used in it isn't necessarily a highly sought after version. The CJ is a better engine. I would think all things equal that the value would be about equal as well.

I'd need to see it in person and recognize Coralsnakes caution on the color BUT that color in particular is a little chameleon-ish. I remember it as lighter in color but have noticed that clear coat can make it look darker then usual in the shade.

For the seller to even suggest that the engine detailing is accurate shows a serious lack of knowledge and lack of it should be a serious hit on the asking price. It is nowhere near ready to be judged but by the same token, who is going to judge a national level Cougar?

I'd lean to bad lighting in the pictures showing the color inaccurately.
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: Bigblock on April 18, 2018, 08:03:56 AM
This car was at the Cougar 50th anniversary in Dearborn with 8 other GTEs. One item that some of these guys get wrong is these 427s shipped out with no thermostatic valve in the thermostat housing. And even if you do use it, it should be connected correctly.

There were several of these cars for sale in the late 70s in Northern Ohio for $2-3000 plus free salt.

Just some $.02 info. A friend and I took his GTE and his 68 R code Cougar (both autos, 3.50) to Dragway 42 and took turns driving each car against each other. The 428CJ beat the GTE off the line every time but near 1/2 way down the track the 427 started catching up and with more asphalt would have passed it. Of course there were variables (tires, CJ ram air, me driving  ;D).
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: shelbydoug on April 18, 2018, 08:28:35 AM
I don't criticize others religion but personally I don't worship at the 427 alter.

I do remember the '68 NHRA Nationals where the CJ Mustang was introduced to the public. I don't need to explain the results.

427, yada, yada, yada...what's the point of an engine that will drop a valve over 6,000rpm's?

EVERY original 427 Cobra I looked at had either a blown engine or a replacement in there.

All things given equal a CJ is half the price so is twice the value of a 427. That is unless you are going to Lemans and in all honesty, I never did.

All FE's are 6,000 rpm engines UNLESS you go in and rework the valve train. Mostly valve springs but salt belongs on the dinner table in shakers, not in valve stems.

Don't like that remark? Who cares? Pick a finger. Any finger?  ;)
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: 2112 on April 18, 2018, 09:47:02 AM
Which exhaust manifold did the GTE Cougar use?


427, yada, yada, yada...what's the point of an engine that will drop a valve over 6,000rpm's?

All FE's are 6,000 rpm engines UNLESS you go in and rework the valve train. Mostly valve springs but salt belongs on the dinner table in shakers, not in valve stems.

Depends on how you build them. Here is an original, one-owner Cobra being auto-crossed 2 weekends ago with a 9,000 rpm FE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnTvAizlQwA
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: gt350hr on April 18, 2018, 10:50:12 AM
All the sites say Side Oiler but so think not.

    Side oiler block for hydraulic lifters.
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: papa scoops on April 18, 2018, 12:05:45 PM
lot of $ for a car with a bunch of dented up chrome, mis fitting parts, non original color, (way to far off to even be a variant) mis matches interior parts, no radio knobs, and an ugly color combo. just my thoughts, but i'd still like to have one. phred
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: propayne on April 18, 2018, 12:26:38 PM
It's deja vu all over again -

Here are beautiful examples of both flavors.

- Phillip

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/134-180418122440.jpeg)
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: Bigblock on April 18, 2018, 12:34:07 PM
just my thoughts, but i'd still like to have one. phred

Me too, find two of them. ;D
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: Bigfoot on April 18, 2018, 01:36:49 PM
Looks good propayne.
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: 2112 on April 18, 2018, 01:41:03 PM
The pictures Phillip just posted really drive home how poorly the eBay car was put together. Sheesh!   ::)
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: propayne on April 18, 2018, 04:29:52 PM
^^^ yes, the mountains of info that was lost due to the crash of the old site really does break my heart.

It was a thread on the GT-E that first prompted me to officially join this forum.

Timing is everything, as they say, and Cougars are my first passion and will always be.

I am also a bonafide Shelby enthusiast and first became a SAAC member in the early '80s and am a current member.

- Phillip

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/134-180418162929.jpeg)
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: 2112 on April 18, 2018, 05:52:28 PM
^^^Nicely Restored Cougar!   ;)

I think that is Bob Eubanks showing off his new Cougar to the young lady.
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: propayne on April 18, 2018, 06:27:36 PM
LOL - that does look like Bob Eubanks!

Maybe it is - that is a seldom seen vintage L-M marketing photo of one of the pre-production GT-Es.

- Phillip
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: shelbydoug on April 18, 2018, 07:58:24 PM
Which exhaust manifold did the GTE Cougar use?


427, yada, yada, yada...what's the point of an engine that will drop a valve over 6,000rpm's?

All FE's are 6,000 rpm engines UNLESS you go in and rework the valve train. Mostly valve springs but salt belongs on the dinner table in shakers, not in valve stems.

Depends on how you build them. Here is an original, one-owner Cobra being auto-crossed 2 weekends ago with a 9,000 rpm FE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnTvAizlQwA

If it's 9,000 rpm, then it's no way the engine is original.

Remember the GT40's at Lemans were limited to 6,000 rpm.

Original valve spring technology was maxed out at 7,000rpm.

You can't even use a stock block to run that rpm. Aftermarket yes. Probably a Pond block.
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: 2112 on April 18, 2018, 08:23:33 PM
Car is original. Engine is Blue Thunder on top of a CS block. Bryant crank, Carillo rods, no expense spared kind of build.

But the architecture is real FE.
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: silverton_ford on April 19, 2018, 12:18:09 AM
It's deja vu all over again -

Here are beautiful examples of both flavors.

- Phillip

(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/134-180418122440.jpeg)

The black car is fantastic!  I get to drive it and ride it in it on occasion.  A very good friend owns it and he lives about 10 miles from my house.   The GTE is highly under appreciated with the general public.  Obviously due to recent prices in the past 10 years or so there are some folks that think highly of them, but as a whole the general population doesn't know that Ford had a 427 in a production car in 1968.  Many folks assume they are some sort of creation or resto-mod.

The car in the Ebay ad may appear nice from the photos, but a friend inspected the car at the 50th Anniversary of Cougars show last year(location of where photos were taken) and it still needs more work to be considered for that kind of money.  At that Cougar show the painter/engine repair guy was trying to sell it to recoup his unpaid bill.  Some how he had the title (maybe a lean.... I don't know the specifics). The true owner showed up the day of this show and it was an awkward reunion between owner and mechanic.  (Per the story I was told, I was not there.)
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: shelbydoug on April 19, 2018, 07:05:18 AM
Really nice cars. The black one is a show stopper for sure.
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: propayne on April 19, 2018, 07:38:08 AM
Thanks for adding some background story to the GT-E that is the subject of this thread Brian - that is fascinating.

Yes, "Blackie" and her owner are well known in Cougar circles. A black GT-E is a beautiful thing, an already handsome car in a tuxedo.

I should also mention that the photo credit for that terrific shot of Blackie belongs to WCCC employee Andrew Chenovick - a very talented young photographer and videographer.

- Phillip
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: shelbydoug on April 19, 2018, 07:53:47 AM
How is the "running hot" scenario with these cars?
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: silverton_ford on April 19, 2018, 10:15:01 AM
How is the "running hot" scenario with these cars?

With the Black car in the photos shown here, we have had temperature troubles when in bumper to bumper traffic at low speeds.  A local cruise-in in Junction City, OR shuts down the entire main street and opens it up for hot rods to cruise.  It attracts several hundred cars and is quite a site to see, but it is a slow traffic jam.  The black car did not like that slow speed. We had to park it and just watch the event.  The drive home was great at higher speeds to allow more air flow.

It is interesting to note that the original owner of this car used to haul the family travel trailer with it to camping trips back in the late 60's and early 70's.
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: SCJSTU on April 19, 2018, 12:26:59 PM
would love to own a 427 Cougar.....rare cat for sure
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: shelbydoug on May 06, 2018, 03:59:20 PM
I can appreciate that car and the situation it is in. Love is not a rational thing. I'm a secret admirer. It's "nice".  ;)
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: sfm5 on May 06, 2018, 05:01:12 PM
How is the "running hot" scenario with these cars?

With the Black car in the photos shown here, we have had temperature troubles when in bumper to bumper traffic at low speeds.  A local cruise-in in Junction City, OR shuts down the entire main street and opens it up for hot rods to cruise.  It attracts several hundred cars and is quite a site to see, but it is a slow traffic jam.  The black car did not like that slow speed. We had to park it and just watch the event.  The drive home was great at higher speeds to allow more air flow.

It is interesting to note that the original owner of this car used to haul the family travel trailer with it to camping trips back in the late 60's and early 70's.

Funny that the e-bay seller suggests the Woodward's cruise, and my mind immediately went there. That's the last place I would want to drive a big block car as they notoriously over heat in bumper to bumper traffic. Did the GTE's come in a 4 speed or are they all automatics?
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: propayne on May 06, 2018, 06:20:50 PM
All of the "W" code, 427 GT-Es were automatics (only transmission available).

Cobra Jet GT-Es could be ordered with a 4 speed.

- Phillip
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: shelbydoug on May 06, 2018, 07:24:43 PM
All of the "W" code, 427 GT-Es were automatics (only transmission available).

Cobra Jet GT-Es could be ordered with a 4 speed.

- Phillip

I could live with an automatic in that car.
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: Bigfoot on May 06, 2018, 07:48:40 PM
Wurd
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: Stubee on May 06, 2018, 07:52:36 PM
Not trying to get in a slinging match,

Did I miss something with the eBay car or is it a Dynacorn rebodied car with VIN numbers cut out of the old car and welded into the new with pieces transferred over?

Replacing a fender or a trunk lid would be fine if most of the original car is there. I could think of better investments for $159,000 then a full Dynacorn car.

I would pay $159,000 for the black one in the vintage add though.

Just my two cents,

Stubee
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: propayne on May 06, 2018, 08:31:12 PM
Dynacorn doesn't make a Cougar body.

Not yet, anyway.

The pic of the black GT-E isn't a vintage ad, that is a recent photo.

- Phillip
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: Stubee on May 06, 2018, 08:39:40 PM
I see. I guess those photos in the eBay ad were after all the prep work had been done.

That photo of the black car is amazing. What a beautiful car it is.

 A fine cat indeed.

Stubee

Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: 2112 on May 06, 2018, 09:23:51 PM
With the panel fit of the eBay car, you could think it was Dynacorn.
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: propayne on May 06, 2018, 09:27:32 PM
I know that quite a few years ago Dynacorn procured a nice '67 Cougar body from West Coast Classic Cougar for the purpose of making a new body - but so far nothing has come of it.

- Phillip
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: Bigfoot on May 06, 2018, 09:50:36 PM
All I’m saying is I’d be happy to do some burnouts in it.
I wouldnt even consider a six figure Cougar .
Seen so many nice GTE’s in the last six years for like 75k...
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: 2112 on August 06, 2018, 02:26:42 AM
Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead.

Which exhaust manifolds were used on 427 Cougars?

Somewhere in the back of my mind I thought these had 428 heads (CJ ?) and thus 428 exhaust manifolds.

427 heads would require headers in a Cougar, no?
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: shelbydoug on August 06, 2018, 07:38:59 AM
I'm pretty sure that the W engine code 427 really is just a 390 GT with a 427 hydraulic lifter block so it uses the 390 GT exhaust manifolds.
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: propayne on August 06, 2018, 08:05:09 AM
FWIW, here is GT-E Registrar Jim Pinkerton's post from a similar thread that appeared on the long lost forum -

I am new to your forum, having heard about the discussion of Cougar GT-E 427 engines from a fellow cougar-o-phile.  I am the Cougar GT-E Registrar.  When I started the Registry nearly 18 years ago, there were only 58 GT-Es accounted for.  At that time Kevin Marti didn’t even have the production database, and so there were lots of numbers out there in the press that were totally wrong.  I have a subcontract with Ford through Kevin Marti and I have all of the information on all of the GT-Es produced.  By the by, there were 394 made, 357 of them with the 427 engine and only 37 with the 428 CJ.  I’ve accounted for 260 of them to date.  From what I’ve seen in the discussion so far there is some concern about the date codes on early Cougar 427 engines (and perhaps other concerns), although I’m not clear on exactly what the question(s) is/are.  We all want documentation to show the history of rare cars; but alas some of the documentation out there, if we include sales brochures and articles in magazines of the day, are notoriously inaccurate (for a whole variety of reasons).  That said,  once I know specifically what the questions are, we can discuss what evidence you (or anyone else for that matter) might accept, to show what was produced, when, etc.  And while I’m more than willing to exchange information in an open forum like this, I know too that some folks may prefer a more restricted venue, in which case I welcome any and all communications concerning GT-Es through my regular email address  pinktwo at att.net

I know some folks have raised the issue of engine date codes for GT-Es.  Since that first run of engines was cast date coded in July, 1967 the question seems to be why did the regular production GT-Es (not the 10 early pre-regular production prototypes, factory mules, whatever you want to call them) not start until Jan 1, 1968.  Well the truth is that I don’t know for sure, at least in terms of some F-L-M document that explains it.  Speculation includes the fact that FIA papers were filed and approved for the 427 engine for racing purposes, and that paperwork “required” a run of 500 units. Once that approval was granted, production could begin.  It makes some logical sense (and that is why it might be correct - Smiley -- that L-M wouldn’t want to produce regular production cars until that time (having tested the car in terms of marketing through model-year introduction shows etc.

Let me try to answer the questions you’ve posed.  You ask about the date of approval for the homologation papers -- I presume by that you mean the FIA papers I mentioned in my post above?  If so, then I “think” the date stamp says August 24th, 1968.  I say I “think” because the copy of the document that I have is like alot of machine copies, hard to read, especially inked date stamps (all 15 pages).  I’ve put a call into a guy who may have a better copy, so perhaps clarification coming.  These papers, now that I look at them again, specify 1000 units (not the 500 that I thought I recalled -- sorry about that).  The papers say they were started on August 23rd, 1967.  Certainly only 357, 427 units were produced.  We know that someone at L-M pulled the plug on racing in that division, but I don’t know who, or exactly when.  From what I’ve seen, the July, 1967 date casted engines were definitely available for the 10 preproduction prototypes (12) with 04G production dates, and nearly all of the units produced in January and February of ‘68 (220)had them.  As to who was in charge of the GT-E program (if in fact it were a separate program) I do not know, but certainly wish I did.  I’ve never seen an official document on the program; only the odd aside mentioned. Hope this helps.

There were only 4, 427 GT-Es produced in June.  All the rest were between late February (approx. 23rd) and the end of May.  Of the original engines that I am aware of most, if not all, were Dec 1967 date coded engines. A typical C6 trans tag for a GT-E would be: Line 1 - PGB W; Line 2 - C1 1408.  I don’t know how this compares to other car lines.  The servo was either an R or a D, and it had the aluminum tailshaft, unlike the later 428 CJ equipped GT-Es which had the cast iron tailshaft. Oh, and should I mention the heads.  Originally 6090-J, and then about February 15th they ran out of those and switched to the new CJ head, 6090-N, but with only 14 exhaust bolt holes (for the 390 GT exhaust manifolds, as you mentioned).  By the by, the FIA paper ink stamps are illegible, but the document itself says “Recognition valid from 1st Jan. 1968.”
Jim
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: propayne on August 06, 2018, 08:15:45 AM
For those interested, some more information here:

https://gte.mercurycougarregistry.com/performance-features/

- Phillip
Title: Re: 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E XR-7 427 Side Oiler eBay
Post by: 2112 on August 06, 2018, 11:22:41 AM
^^^^ Thank you 🍺