I have this Shelby guages pod and I don't know if it is original or reproduction.
Thanks Kyle.
Anyone know if it is original or reproduction please?
Here are some more photo.
Kyle.
I don't believe this is an original pod as the brackets holding the instruments don't match what I have
on my original pod and the holes holding the instruments on the sides of the instrument pods are missing.
These holes are in different angles for the two instruments.
Texas Swede
I believe early cars had no screws in the center face plate, while later cars did.
When that change happened, I don't know.
Those photos of the pod sure look clean and fresh.
Maybe it is a reproduction, but it would be nice to to hear from a few more people and our resident experts on this.
Is that an extra small hole in the back of the case behind where the amp gauge is inserted?
As far as the early verses the later (no screw verses with screw style) I show the change taking place pretty early in the production year. Haven't gotten through all the 67's I've got pictures of yet
Yes I think that hole at the back is a past owners modification.
I don't know why.
My Shelby 67 Is early vin#0348.
So for my car need's to be without no screws in the center face plate ?
Kyle.
Quote from: Kyle on August 10, 2021, 08:22:21 AM
My Shelby 67 Is early vin#0348.
So for my car need's to be without no screws in the center face plate ?
Kyle.
That could be, not sure a definite time has been established on when that change occurred.
Quote from: Kyle on August 10, 2021, 08:22:21 AM
My Shelby 67 Is early vin#0348.
So for my car need's to be without no screws in the center face plate ?
Kyle.
It would be more likely without screws then with screws IMO. Your car was built close to the change over for that detail I think.
Quote from: JD on August 10, 2021, 08:53:14 AM
Quote from: Kyle on August 10, 2021, 08:22:21 AM
My Shelby 67 Is early vin#0348.
So for my car need's to be without no screws in the center face plate ?
Kyle.
That could be, not sure a definite time has been established on when that change occurred.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on August 10, 2021, 09:50:37 AM
Quote from: Kyle on August 10, 2021, 08:22:21 AM
My Shelby 67 Is early vin#0348.
So for my car need's to be without no screws in the center face plate ?
Kyle.
It would be more likely without screws then with screws IMO. Your car was built close to the change over for that detail I think.
So to be correct my guage pod needs to be with no screws on the face plate?
Is these are reproduction or original?
Were can I find original complete guage pod with guages with no screws on the face plate?
Kyle.
Quote from: Kyle on August 10, 2021, 11:12:10 AM
Were can I find original complete guage pod with guages with no screws on the face plate?
Kyle.
A post in the want to buy subforum https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?board=51.0 is highly suggested. Plenty of parts collectors/seller lurk there.
Bill
I would check with Branda performance and see if they sell any plates with out the screws.If not you may have to fabricate one . The one without screws is slightly larger because it is wedged in between the pods for a interference fit. Worst case scenario go with the one with the screws. It isn't set in stone that yours would be without screws.Yet anyway. Details can evolve with more evidence. FYI if using screws they need to be slotted counter sunk type that are black oxide finish.
Quote from: Bill on August 10, 2021, 11:32:05 AM
Quote from: Kyle on August 10, 2021, 11:12:10 AM
Were can I find original complete guage pod with guages with no screws on the face plate?
Kyle.
A post in the want to buy subforum https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?board=51.0 is highly suggested. Plenty of parts collectors/seller lurk there.
Bill
Thanks Bill,
I will make a post Wanted for guages pod.
Kyle.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on August 10, 2021, 11:38:28 AM
I would check with Branda performance and see if they sell any plates with out the screws.If not you may have to fabricate one . The one without screws is slightly larger because it is wedged in between the pods for a interference fit. Worst case scenario go with the one with the screws. It isn't set in stone that yours would be without screws.Yet anyway. Details can evolve with more evidence. FYI if using screws they need to be slotted counter sunk type that are black oxide finish.
Hi again Bob,
Yes please check me at Branda performance about the plate.
I think is a bit problem to make it without screws in the plate plus the other modifications?
I prefer to find a original complete pod even with the guages.
Kyle.
Quote from: Richstang on August 09, 2021, 10:59:43 PM
I believe early cars had no screws in the center face plate, while later cars did.
When that change happened, I don't know.
As a follow up to earlier comments
IMO it is likely/possibly there was a short period of time where both were in stock as old inventory was being used up and new was available. Looking at my collection of data I have come up with likely a soft running change around car #170-#210. Have about 200 examples after that point with about 1% (month or more apart) deviation represented by orphan and likely non-original gauge clusters
Unfortunately don't have clear pictures of all of the 1400 cars I have pictures of this detail
Just trying to help
Quote from: J_Speegle on August 10, 2021, 05:23:12 PM
Quote from: Richstang on August 09, 2021, 10:59:43 PM
I believe early cars had no screws in the center face plate, while later cars did.
When that change happened, I don't know.
As a follow up to earlier comments
IMO it is likely/possibly there was a short period of time where both were in stock as old inventory was being used up and new was available. Looking at my collection of data I have come up with likely a soft running change around car #170-#210. Have about 200 examples after that point with about 1% (month or more apart) deviation represented by orphan and likely non-original gauge clusters
Unfortunately don't have clear pictures of all of the 1400 cars I have pictures of this detail
Just trying to help
Kyle, Sounds like it's safe for you to use what you have and "plug" the extra hole.
(THANKS, JEFF!)
Quote from: J_Speegle on August 10, 2021, 05:23:12 PM
Quote from: Richstang on August 09, 2021, 10:59:43 PM
I believe early cars had no screws in the center face plate, while later cars did.
When that change happened, I don't know.
As a follow up to earlier comments
IMO it is likely/possibly there was a short period of time where both were in stock as old inventory was being used up and new was available. Looking at my collection of data I have come up with likely a soft running change around car #170-#210. Have about 200 examples after that point with about 1% (month or more apart) deviation represented by orphan and likely non-original gauge clusters
Unfortunately don't have clear pictures of all of the 1400 cars I have pictures of this detail
Just trying to help
Thanks JD,
So My guages pod is reproduction?
Quote from: J_Speegle on August 10, 2021, 04:48:15 AM
Is that an extra small hole in the back of the case behind where the amp gauge is inserted?
After looking at more examples the small "extra" hole would be for the oil pressure tube. But don't see that hole on originals though don't have allot of those pictures. Anyone see this or is this a case again of a reproducer "improving" the original
Kyle you didn't happen to reverse the picture you posted of the housing did you?
Maybe I'm turned around looking at all the pictures but if that hole was meant for the oil pressure hose on the OP's housing doesn't that put that gauge on the opposite side? Not sure if we should continue here or start a new thread
OP's housing is at the top of both of the following
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-100821211645-15830622.jpeg)
*NOTE: the example in the picture below on the bottom has a large hole in the center of the bracket that appears to have been made after the part was painted. Not sure if this is a feature of an original or added by a prior owner/builder
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-100821211646-15831903.jpeg)
Interesting shot below (still opposite from the OP's picture) and it may be just the angle but here is a side shot showing the oil pressure line going to the drivers side gauge pod but appears its going through of the housing. In the picture above (bottom one) shows that one with the oil pressure hose routed through the square housing opening. Two version? Owner alteration? This should get some additional comments
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-100821211648-158321156.jpeg)
Quote from: J_Speegle on August 10, 2021, 09:23:06 PM
Quote from: J_Speegle on August 10, 2021, 04:48:15 AM
Is that an extra small hole in the back of the case behind where the amp gauge is inserted?
After looking at more examples the small "extra" hole would be for the oil pressure tube. But don't see that hole on originals though don't have allot of those pictures. Anyone see this or is this a case again of a reproducer "improving" the original
Kyle you didn't happen to reverse the picture you posted of the housing did you?
Maybe I'm turned around looking at all the pictures but if that hole was meant for the oil pressure hose on the OP's housing doesn't that put that gauge on the opposite side? Not sure if we should continue here or start a new thread
OP's housing is at the top of both of the following
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-100821211645-15830622.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-100821211646-15831903.jpeg)
Interesting shot below (still opposite from the OP's picture) and it may be just the angle but here is a side shot showing the oil pressure line going to the drivers side gauge pod but appears its going through of the housing. In the picture above (bottom one) shows that one with the oil pressure hose routed through the square housing opening. Two version? Owner alteration? This should get some additional comments
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-100821211648-158321156.jpeg)
Thank you very much, J_speeglo
So my guages pod is an old reproduction or original
Yes me to I think that the small extra hole would be for the oil pressure tube.
Yes we should continue here.
Here are some more photos.
Kyle
J_Speegle,
Thanks for your photos .
Here are some more photos to see the difference.
Kyle.
Anyone have an original out and apart with pictures?
I'll look later today, away for a few hours it will probably be after 9pm EST today.
Jeffs picture
See the arrow you will see a small point on the end of the 1\4 20 stud that little point you can feel with your finger . when i was judging cars i would reach under and feel for it on the back of the pods.
Every original 67 I have had had that point.
We never deducted any points for it I just used it as a gauge as to how many cars had it.
Dominic
the first two images were what was on the car I had, early '67 no screws in the front filler plate.
the second two were for sale on E-pay I think... it seems to have an extra hole.
Thanks JD. With enough digging and sharing I think we can draw some conclusions and in turn help out the OP
Thanks for everyone.
So to be correct my guage pod needs need to be no screws in the center face plate?
Anyone have photos of an early guage pod please?
Thanks Kyle.
This one has a piece of Velcro stuck in the center, that shouldn't be there, it was holding an emblem. It looks the same just no holes.
Not that they cant be changed but the small bracket that's used to attach the pod to the dash metal is stamped/cut different and is pretty clearly different between the repro's versus the originals. Just another reference point when comparing the two.
While I don't have many close up photos, my photo files support Jeff's estimate (when the face plate with screws start appearing).
It appears they start sometime in the 200s VIN range. In the 300s I'm starting to see the screws on the face plates.
Just remember cars were not completed in VIN order, so you have to look at the dates.
It DOES seem that Kyle's car would have the screws as it was completed in late January.
This is only my guess based on my current collection of photos.
It does not cover all '67's and includes some that have been restored.
^^^ Yes that is what I suggested above in reply #15
Quote from: Richstang on August 12, 2021, 01:04:46 PM
While I don't have many close up photos, my photo files support Jeff's estimate (when the face plate with screws start appearing).
It appears they start sometime in the 200s VIN range. In the 300s I'm starting to see the screws on the face plates.
Just remember cars were not completed in VIN order, so you have to look at the dates.
It DOES seem that Kyle's car would have the screws as it was completed in late January.
This is only my guess based on my current collection of photos.
It does not cover all '67's and includes some that have been restored.
Hi Rich, thanks for the information.
So my guages are correct for my car ?
I will plug that hole of the oil pressure hose because it's not original from factory. I don't have screws on the 2 trim rings of the guages I don't know Why?
Even I don't have that big hole in the midle of the pod why?
These are the dates on the MartiReport.
Here are some photos.
Kyle
Quote from: Kyle on August 12, 2021, 02:24:40 PM
Quote from: Richstang on August 12, 2021, 01:04:46 PM
While I don't have many close up photos, my photo files support Jeff's estimate (when the face plate with screws start appearing).
It appears they start sometime in the 200s VIN range. In the 300s I'm starting to see the screws on the face plates.
Just remember cars were not completed in VIN order, so you have to look at the dates.
It DOES seem that Kyle's car would have the screws as it was completed in late January.
This is only my guess based on my current collection of photos.
It does not cover all '67's and includes some that have been restored.
Hi Rich, thanks for the information.
So my guages are correct for my car ?
I will plug that hole of the oil pressure hose because it's not original from factory. I don't have screws on the 2 trim rings of the guages I don't know Why?
Even I don't have that big hole in the midle of the pod why?
These are the dates on the MartiReport.
Here are some photos.
Kyle
My reply is just an educated guess. There is nothing concrete to say for certain either way.
It does appear those who have replied, agree that it likely had the face plate screws.
The dates you show on the Marti report are from when Ford / San Jose built the base unit and shipped to SAI
They are NOT the date when the car was completed at SAI. That is the date to refer to for any Shelby added components.
#00348 is noted as SAI completed 1/25/67, as found in the 2011 registry.
FYI; I'm glad you did NOT share you entire Marti report in this public forum.
Always keep the FORD VIN hidden from public eyes!
Thanks Rich,
Kyle
Since we are on the gauge pod .... any body seen or heard about the amp and oil press gauges swapped around for visibilty to the driver ?
I had an owner tell me it was a Calif thing.... when you move the oil press to the right side, its easier for the driver to see... and who cares about amps......
When I got my '67 in San Diego, the gauges were swapped this way.... bass ackwards.
Quote from: oldcanuck on August 12, 2021, 05:01:53 PM
Since we are on the gauge pod .... any body seen or heard about the amp and oil press gauges swapped around for visibilty to the driver ?
I had an owner tell me it was a Calif thing.... when you move the oil press to the right side, its easier for the driver to see... and who cares about amps......
When I got my '67 in San Diego, the gauges were swapped this way.... bass ackwards.
That is a new one as 67 urban legends go .at least for me. I have not seen or heard of factory memos etc to indicate that it ever was implemented. If it was something that made sense in CA then SA would have implemented it for all 67 Shelby's. It would be one less thing to get confused about from a procedural build stand point. The outboard light change over comes to mind. As it stands it sounds like another urban legend example to justify a non original modification.
Quote from: Kyle on August 12, 2021, 02:24:40 PM
So my guages are correct for my car ?
Correct in the style (screws used for retaining the face plate)
Quote from: Kyle on August 12, 2021, 02:24:40 PMI will plug that hole of the oil pressure hose because it's not original from factory. I don't have screws on the 2 trim rings of the guages I don't know Why?
Even I don't have that big hole in the midle of the pod why?
Appears that that is likely another confirmation that you have a reproduction assembly. If someone had one new in the box from whomever is currently or recently has been making them we could then compare yours and theirs but so far its looking like a number of features are not matching originals. And that was the original question for the thread
Quote from: Bob Gaines on August 12, 2021, 05:13:23 PM
Quote from: oldcanuck on August 12, 2021, 05:01:53 PM
Since we are on the gauge pod .... any body seen or heard about the amp and oil press gauges swapped around for visibilty to the driver ?
I had an owner tell me it was a Calif thing.... when you move the oil press to the right side, its easier for the driver to see... and who cares about amps......
When I got my '67 in San Diego, the gauges were swapped this way.... bass ackwards.
That is a new one as 67 urban legends go .at least for me. I have not seen or heard of factory memos etc to indicate that it ever was implemented. If it was something that made sense in CA then SA would have implemented it for all 67 Shelby's. It would be one less thing to get confused about from a procedural build stand point. The outboard light change over comes to mind. As it stands it sounds like another urban legend example to justify a non original modification.
Thanks Bob
Quote from: J_Speegle on August 12, 2021, 06:00:22 PM
Quote from: Kyle on August 12, 2021, 02:24:40 PM
So my guages are correct for my car ?
Correct in the style (screws used for retaining the face plate)
Quote from: Kyle on August 12, 2021, 02:24:40 PMI will plug that hole of the oil pressure hose because it's not original from factory. I don't have screws on the 2 trim rings of the guages I don't know Why?
Even I don't have that big hole in the midle of the pod why?
Appears that that is likely another confirmation that you have a reproduction assembly. If someone had one new in the box from whomever is currently or recently has been making them we could then compare yours and theirs but so far its looking like a number of features are not matching originals. And that was the original question for the thread
J_Speegle, are you looking for these numbers ?
I am not 100% if my guage pod is reproduction the looks like there was restord.
Quote from: Kyle on August 12, 2021, 02:24:40 PM
J_Speegle, are you looking for these numbers ?
Nope - not looking for those numbers, saw them earlier, we're sort of waiting to see if someone has an original set of gauges that could be disassembled or are already apart so that we can see if they have the same features (including the numbers on the one post with the extra hole) or not of your posted pictures
Quote from: Kyle on August 12, 2021, 02:24:40 PMI am not 100% if my guage pod is reproduction the looks like there was restord.
Not sure how you determined that they may have been restored but ok your the one holding the parts. Not allot of shops that could restore the gauges I would believe
Looking around the internet there appears to have been at least a couple of reproductions offered over the years making things a bit more difficult without an original to compare with
Just trying to get as much information/evidence collected to help make an unbiased determination
In reply #17 - In the second picture (fourth example) down from the top shows the center cast bracket on that example with a large hole in the middle - likely to get better access to the mounting (cluster to lower dash) - that appears made after the unit was painted. So without another example don't know if that is a true representation of how an original would have looked in relationship to that feature
Thanks for everyone for the information.
Was able to find one apart that the seller believes is an original. Below is a side by side of the inner cups and the back side of both gauges so you can compare and see the differences and similarities. Yours is the pictures at the top in all the following pictures
Cups - You can see that the numbers are present in both but no "extra" hole in the one on the bottom right. What should be the oil pressure cups are on the left of the picture and amp gauge to the right side
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-130821163257-158412441.jpeg)
Back side of oil pressure gauge. Some differences between the two design are apparent
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-130821163257-158421935.jpeg)
Back side of the amp gauge with the differences. Most noted the two posts for the connections are insulated and "spaced" away from the mounting bracket and the retaining posts
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-130821163254-15840927.jpeg)
Thanks Jeff, for all that information and photos.
These photos that you post are very likely the same like mine.
The only problem that is very different are these brackets. I think that these were a modification by a past owner. The chrome rings of the guages has 3 semi curved holes and the brackets are not original.
Kyle.
Look at these photos.
Quote from: DC-DD on August 11, 2021, 05:21:29 PM
Jeffs picture
See the arrow you will see a small point on the end of the 1\4 20 stud that little point you can feel with your finger . when i was judging cars i would reach under and feel for it on the back of the pods.
Every original 67 I have had had that point.
We never deducted any points for it I just used it as a gauge as to how many cars had it.
Dominic
I'm going to post a reply in a few different posts since there are so many details we need to talk about.
First is the "point". It appears that the long (2.275) "Y" gauge pod support post was made it left a point in the end of the post. See pic of side view.
JD's post:
https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=15936.msg130156#msg130156
Showed an early car which had a bracket different from mine. The main case of the pod is also different in that there is no hole.
Here is the pic in question:
(https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15936.0;attach=70494;image)
My bracket is as shown in the attachment 1. It shows a totally different bracket than the pic above. It also shows a hole in the main case. The hole is painted.
The Assy manual shows (with circle for area of interest) a similar bracket to mine and a hole in the main case. My supposition is that the bracket was changed to ease assembly and the hole in the main case certainly helps.
The bracket is interesting in that the part of the bracket facing the underside of the dash is flat black. The area facing the carpet -- the portion you might see if poking around under here -- is textured like the main case.
kyle
My car #388 has screws in the face plate. I don't believe it was ever changed. Just my opinion. Car was parked since 1978.
Peter
Hi Peter,
Thanks for let me know how is your face plate is from your car.
Your pod has a main hole in the centre of the pod please?
Your car is very close to my car.
Thanks Kyle.