https://www.ebay.com/itm/274933467406?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=CUgHyHB2TSh%252FrgmU0yBfQT4y39o%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc
What's the question? Looks like a non - numbers matching Shelby with an unknown reserve that isn't met yet. I would look at it in person if I were interested in buying.
The VIN is marked as "00000000000000000" so it isn't even the first one. It's before. Lol.
Quote from: deathsled on September 11, 2021, 09:13:10 AM
The VIN is marked as "00000000000000000" so it isn't even the first one. It's before. Lol.
The vin number 0 makes it the first or before first 67 Shelby
Could be possibly a James Bond car with all the 00000 in it
Maybe one of the rarest Shelbys on the market....million dollar car ?
Why don't you ask the seller for the serial number if you are interested in buying it?
It's listed under "vehicle description".
67200F9A02383
Craig R.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on September 11, 2021, 09:09:56 AM
What's the question? Looks like a non - numbers matching Shelby with an unknown reserve that isn't met yet. I would look at it in person if I were interested in buying.
SO all non numbers matching Shelbys are worth under 100K?
Looks like a nice car to me? Why so cheap?
Is this true market value for a non matching number car?
That car was listed once before, July 2021, can't remember if it was the same seller.
Quote from: 67 GT350 on September 11, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on September 11, 2021, 09:09:56 AM
What's the question? Looks like a non - numbers matching Shelby with an unknown reserve that isn't met yet. I would look at it in person if I were interested in buying.
SO all non numbers matching Shelbys are worth under 100K?
Looks like a nice car to me? Why so cheap?
Is this true market value for a non matching number car?
I would submit no. There are so many variables going on. The time of year of the sale, the particular way the car has been advertised, the forum (ebay) on which it is advertised and the particular time in people's lives who may or may not be in the market for said car and compound this with the usual proverbial tire kickers, I submit that this does not accurately reflect the value of the car. Thinking four dimensionally here, a different time may yield a different (higher) result.
It didn't sell. That's not the price.
Quote from: 67 GT350 on September 11, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on September 11, 2021, 09:09:56 AM
What's the question? Looks like a non - numbers matching Shelby with an unknown reserve that isn't met yet. I would look at it in person if I were interested in buying.
SO all non numbers matching Shelbys are worth under 100K?
Looks like a nice car to me? Why so cheap?
Is this true market value for a non matching number car?
If it did not sell for that then the market is telling you that it's worth a bit less than the bid price
Quote from: Royce Peterson on September 11, 2021, 08:48:06 PM
It didn't sell. That's not the price.
Quote from: 67 GT350 on September 11, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on September 11, 2021, 09:09:56 AM
What's the question? Looks like a non - numbers matching Shelby with an unknown reserve that isn't met yet. I would look at it in person if I were interested in buying.
SO all non numbers matching Shelbys are worth under 100K?
Looks like a nice car to me? Why so cheap?
Is this true market value for a non matching number car?
So one person who is on ebay was willing to pay $66,233.00 for the car and one other person was willing to pay just a little less. Nobody was willing to pay more than $66,233.00 for the car at this time on ebay. If someone was a blablaauction.com buyer and saw this on ebay are we to think he or she would say, if it was on the auction site that I like to bid one, I would pay more and I am not willing to crossover and bid on ebay???
Not true. There were not TWO bidders so the reserve was not met. We don't know what price the reserve was. Two bidders (or more) are needed to find the ultimate value. It very well could be the asking price is too much given the crappy description and lack of underside pictures.
Quote from: FL SAAC on September 11, 2021, 09:39:10 PM
If it did not sell for that then the market is telling you that it's worth a bit less than the bid price
Quote from: Royce Peterson on September 11, 2021, 08:48:06 PM
It didn't sell. That's not the price.
Quote from: 67 GT350 on September 11, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on September 11, 2021, 09:09:56 AM
What's the question? Looks like a non - numbers matching Shelby with an unknown reserve that isn't met yet. I would look at it in person if I were interested in buying.
SO all non numbers matching Shelbys are worth under 100K?
Looks like a nice car to me? Why so cheap?
Is this true market value for a non matching number car?
I looked at this car back in July when Street Side Classics first took it in on consignment. This is car #2383. The sales rep claimed the car was sold within a day of them receiving it for their asking price of $150,000. Street Side said they had a deposit on the car and buyer was working on getting his funds together. The rep said the car was all numbers matching and the 11,*** miles were said to be accurate and documented. I told him to contact SAAC for the real story on the car since the mileage was way beyond what was claimed. Apparently their buyer fell through.
The car was was a nice driver quality with shiny paint on the outside, but door jambs, trunk, lower rockers had poor paint. The car had a lot of original parts under the hood, but a lot of reproduction parts also. They claimed the trans and block were dated and stamped with vin, but I didn't check myself to confirm. The rear quarters looked like they were replaced. I gave it a quick glance and didn't spend a lot of time on it since the temp in their showroom was about 150 degrees that day, Arizona for ya in July!!
If someone is interested and would like a more thorough inspection, let me know.
As it is said, "Caveat Emptor"
George Schalk
Quote from: 67 GT350 on September 11, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
SO all non numbers matching Shelbys are worth under 100K?
Looks like a nice car to me? Why so cheap?
Is this true market value for a non matching number car?
Think your missing the point that this one auction is not about all 67 GT350's but just this one. We are often quick to apply the newest high water mark or low price to all cars that on a quick look appear to be similar cars when we don't know.
Is this the true market value? I would say no, in this example, since there was no agreement between a buyer and seller.
Just the personal value placed on it on that day from bidders participating in the auction for that particular car.
Just an opinion and view point.
George gave us a nice take on this car. So a serious buyer for a 67 sees this car. Knows the condition and knows the reserve price(has to be close to their "in dealer asking price") and determines that it is way higher than they are willing to pay then why would they bid? Most serious buyers I would hope would have a car of that price(150K) evaluated by themselves or an expert. How do we know how many did that and moved on? My experience seeing cars from this dealer is that they are the typical over priced car dealer looking for out of country buyers who might pay more than the going rate for a number of factors. It appears to me the bidders on this car were just nibblers and not serious buyers. Gary
That auction has no significance at all.
It seems the more times a car is listed in an auction, such as this feebay auction, there tends to be less bidders and less bidding each time. Shill bidding is not uncommon in an auction to help drive the price up or create some action on the car. I'm sure I'm not the only one that went to look at this particular Shelby.
It also appears to have a replaced left front fender?
Looks like this was sold at the Gooding & Co. car auction in Scottsdale, Az.
January 2015 (Lot 6) 67200F9A02383 $126,500. "SAAC member restored"
Quote from: George Schalk on September 12, 2021, 10:39:19 AM
It seems the more times a car is listed in an auction, such as this feebay auction, there tends to be less bidders and less bidding each time. Shill bidding is not uncommon in an auction to help drive the price up or create some action on the car. I'm sure I'm not the only one that went to look at this particular Shelby.
I have sold a few cars on Ebay. The last 2 were BIN in 2009(73 vert survivor) and 2013. The 2013 was my 68 Shelby. A guy hired Ken Costella to appraise it. Ken, who I have known for well over 30 years, gave me his appraisal price for auction and private sale. My listed price was about 4 K higher than his top figure for a private sale. I listed the car 4 times and never "technically" sold it on Ebay but did to a person who saw it there(for my top private sale price). If it didn't sell that 4th time it was getting a Paxton from CC. Shipped it to France. That guy put a Paxton on it and sold it there(he restores 67-70s and also XKE Jags). Ebay has been a good avenue for me to sell or advertise cars but I think BaT will be in the future from now on but I don't exactly sell cars all the time. LOL Gary
Quote from: 5s386 on September 12, 2021, 12:20:24 PM
It also appears to have a replaced left front fender?
Looks like this was sold at the Gooding & Co. car auction in Scottsdale, Az.
January 2015 (Lot 6) 67200F9A02383 $126,500. "SAAC member restored"
I'm not surprised. If someone asked me privately for an opinion I'd tell them it depends on how much you want it.
Forget about getting it for even just a hundred. It should bring somewhere in the 115 to 125 vicinity. Try and make a deal for it there.
66 is a teenager's wet dream. It has no significance except to that teen.
The seller's contact information is clearly in the eBay add and no one would seriously bid with the ability to talk directly to the seller. The seller was putting it out there on eBay to get free advertising. The car had tremendous interest when it was originally listed and if it had been the "11,939 mile factory original" it was advertised as would have sold immediately and been a bargain for the purchaser.
It isn't that and I believe the wording of the add hurt it.
I saw this car many years ago and at the time it needed a restoration. Obviously it received it. I always recommend that a 1967 Shelby be evaluated by an expert before purchase. If it has it's original drive train and the restoration work was done properly it could be a nice car for someone. There were only 55 red 4 speed GT 350's built in 1967.
Dave
And how many lime green cars that were painter red?
All of them......
Not all. Mine got painted Nightmist.
I think we should start a new forum section for pointless threads, this one should be included.
Quote from: shelbydoug on September 12, 2021, 09:06:37 AM
That auction has no significance at all.
It might have significance it it ended at 200K, but nothing to see here, at 66K....funny.
Since some of our friends appear very confused about reserve auctions, I will try and explain.
Let say a person wants to sell an item.
They determine how much money they want in order to part with it.
If the predetermined amount is not reached the item does not sell.
The item is then relisted.
This may to be hard to understand but sometimes it takes time to sell something.
Quote from: 427hunter on September 13, 2021, 10:18:06 PM
Since some of our friends appear very confused about reserve auctions, I will try and explain.
Let say a person wants to sell an item.
They determine how much money they want in order to part with it.
If the predetermined amount is not reached the item does not sell.
The item is then relisted.
This may to be hard to understand but sometimes it takes time to sell something.
Exactly, great way to determine market value on ebay. Maybe not BJ or Mec, because of the hype.
Market value can be established typically by how much something sells for and not what it bids up to. That is because it is too easy to falsely bid a item up to give a appearance of value. Auction houses can legally (some more then others ;) ) shill bid a reserve auction up to what they think the market value is. Their rational is to protect the value of the car for the seller because a buyer was not in the house to bid on that particular day.
Bob, I agree. And that is another of many things that irks me about auction houses.
To me, when the "House" falsely raises the bid price of an item to push the selling price higher, that's fraud.
How's that okay/legal?
Richard, can you help here?
Hi Van,
I agree with Bob. And I am unaware of any statute that prevents this from happening. I would say that caveat emptor applies and the buyer sets their own price in their own mind regardless of any shill bidding. There has to be a measure of buyer common sense (and due diligence) as to what a thing is worth. Now if the car is a lemon, and/or misrepresented to be a thing that it is not, then some liability can attach to the seller and perhaps the auction house that is complicit.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on September 14, 2021, 10:04:16 AM
Market value can be established typically by how much something sells for and not what it bids up to. That is because it is too easy to falsely bid a item up to give a appearance of value. Auction houses can legally (some more then others ;) ) shill bid a reserve auction up to what they think the market value is. Their rational is to protect the value of the car for the seller because a buyer was not in the house to bid on that particular day.
Just to be clear it is legal for a auction house to shill bid up to the reserve on a reserve auction. It is not legal for the auction house to shill bid up a no reserve auction although no doubt it happens.
So, my question: Why is fraud not fraud? Just because it is allowed by some of those people/organizations committing the fraud?
How about all the unsuspecting/trusting for-real bidders? Me thinks they'd have a different viewpoint.
Definition of shill:
noun
An accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.
"I used to be a shill in a Reno gambling club"
Below is from Wikipedia...source of all knowledge ::): but is pretty accurate in this case, IMO.
People who drive prices in favor of the auctioneer with fake bids in an auction are called shills or potted plants and seek to provoke a bidding war among other participants.[8][9] Often they are told by the seller precisely how high to bid, as the seller does not lose money if the item does not sell, paying only the auction fees. Shilling has a substantially higher rate of occurrence in online auctions, where any user with multiple accounts can bid on their own items. One detailed example of this has been documented in online auto auctions.[8] The online auction site eBay forbids shilling; its rules do not allow friends or employees of a person selling an item to bid on the item,[10] even though eBay has no means to detect if a bidder is related to a seller or is in fact the seller.[11]
In his book Fake: Forgery, Lies, & eBay, Kenneth Walton describes how he and his cohorts placed shill bids on hundreds of eBay auctions over the course of a year. Walton and his associates were charged and convicted of fraud by the United States Attorney for their eBay shill bidding.[12]
With the proliferation of live online auctions in recent years, shill bidding has become commonplace.[citation needed] Some websites allow shill bidding by participating auctioneers. These auctioneers are able to see bids placed in real time and can then place counter bids to increase the amount. One Proxibid auctioneers' website states, "At the request of the auction company, this auction permits bids to be placed by the seller or on the seller's behalf, even if such bids are placed solely for the purpose of increasing the bid."[13]
Quote from: 67 GT350 on September 14, 2021, 08:33:15 AM
Quote from: 427hunter on September 13, 2021, 10:18:06 PM
Since some of our friends appear very confused about reserve auctions, I will try and explain.
Let say a person wants to sell an item.
They determine how much money they want in order to part with it.
If the predetermined amount is not reached the item does not sell.
The item is then relisted.
This may to be hard to understand but sometimes it takes time to sell something.
Exactly, great way to determine market value on ebay. Maybe not BJ or Mec, because of the hype.
I supect you do not have a clear understanding of markets based on your statment, this was an
advertisement with a reserve auction to attract buyers. Just because the bid ended a 66k does not mean thats the value of the car. Expensive items require lots of advertisement to attract buyers sometimes, either you are confused or a troll.
3 pages of drivel over an item that didn't get bid close to reserve.
Sorry, but I'm over it.
Jon
In 2009 I listed both my 73 Mustang vert and 68 Shelby on Ebay with BIN. I had to sell one. It was funny seeing the very lowball offers from dealers. My 73(which sold the 3rd time on within 2 hours for my BIN price of 16K) I had a dealer first offer me 8K then 9K then 10K. I told him to "go away". They were not BIN "or make offer". Ditto for my 68. Bottom feeders. Kept my 68 and enjoyed it another 4 years until I bought my 69 SCJ Mach1. 68 Shelby had to go(room for 2 classics only). 4 times on Ebay and selling it the 4th time after auction. Again BIN and had an offer in my wheelhouse so I accepted. Ebay pissed me off on their "rules" so I effectively sold it under a brand new account in my wife's name with zero feedback(referred watchers to prior auctions under my regular Ebay handle). Car went to France.
On my 73 they pulled my first auction with a few hours left and the car was close to the reserve(went BIN after that) because of "rules violation". Seems someone complained that I used 71 and 72 in my ad(common practice for 71-3 owners). I called on the phone to ask why the auction was pulled and a live person told me that. I then proceeded to list about a dozen other auctioned doing the SAME thing that were live. None were ever pulled. I am not a fan of Ebay and will never sell another car on there with BaT around now. Heck I hardly ever go there anymore except my saved searches(a few) for certain parts. I doubt I'll sell parts anymore on Ebay either with their total cost including PayPal for sold items. I'll try FB first. Gary
Quote from: 427hunter on September 14, 2021, 09:11:29 PM
Quote from: 67 GT350 on September 14, 2021, 08:33:15 AM
Quote from: 427hunter on September 13, 2021, 10:18:06 PM
Since some of our friends appear very confused about reserve auctions, I will try and explain.
Let say a person wants to sell an item.
They determine how much money they want in order to part with it.
If the predetermined amount is not reached the item does not sell.
The item is then relisted.
This may to be hard to understand but sometimes it takes time to sell something.
Exactly, great way to determine market value on ebay. Maybe not BJ or Mec, because of the hype.
I supect you do not have a clear understanding of markets based on your statment, this was an advertisement with a reserve auction to attract buyers. Just because the bid ended a 66k does not mean thats the value of the car. Expensive items require lots of advertisement to attract buyers sometimes, either you are confused or a troll.
Then why not put the price that would make one happy, and add the best offer, this way one could either get their car sold, or see if through a best offer, they are close to their price?
Like this:
buy it now: 450K or best offer
Offers come in at 66K, 76K 126K 146K
Then one counters at 150K and the potential buyer says, OK sold @ 150K
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on September 15, 2021, 05:27:45 AM
In 2009 I listed both my 73 Mustang vert and 68 Shelby on Ebay with BIN. I had to sell one. It was funny seeing the very lowball offers from dealers. My 73(which sold the 3rd time on within 2 hours for my BIN price of 16K) I had a dealer first offer me 8K then 9K then 10K. I told him to "go away". They were not BIN "or make offer". Ditto for my 68. Bottom feeders. Kept my 68 and enjoyed it another 4 years until I bought my 69 SCJ Mach1. 68 Shelby had to go(room for 2 classics only). 4 times on Ebay and selling it the 4th time after auction. Again BIN and had an offer in my wheelhouse so I accepted. Ebay pissed me off on their "rules" so I effectively sold it under a brand new account in my wife's name with zero feedback(referred watchers to prior auctions under my regular Ebay handle). Car went to France.
On my 73 they pulled my first auction with a few hours left and the car was close to the reserve(went BIN after that) because of "rules violation". Seems someone complained that I used 71 and 72 in my ad(common practice for 71-3 owners). I called on the phone to ask why the auction was pulled and a live person told me that. I then proceeded to list about a dozen other auctioned doing the SAME thing that were live. None were ever pulled. I am not a fan of Ebay and will never sell another car on there with BaT around now. Heck I hardly ever go there anymore except my saved searches(a few) for certain parts. I doubt I'll sell parts anymore on Ebay either with their total cost including PayPal for sold items. I'll try FB first. Gary
I had a 67 Fastback GT K Code in beautiful condition, I had it priced at 65K with offers, I was getting offers like 28K,30K,32K, etc some would not even make an offer until I found the VIN on the block, which I did. A guy who hounded me to do that, ended up buying it for my asking price. WOW, the low ballers just crack me up.