How far back can we get Marti report on Mustangs
Thx
Paul
Quote from: 1969shelbygt350 on October 17, 2021, 02:00:23 PM
How far back can we get Marti report on Mustangs
Thx
Paul
Meant to quote:
1967 8)
Google is your friend - https://www.martiauto.com/martireports.cfm
Regarding the Ford records and Marti reports,
I believe much of the Shelby related information on the reports came from SAAC several years ago. If a report was requested earlier than 2017 it might have some incomplete data compared to today's reports.
As an example, reports for 1969-70 Shelby's only had the totals of all the special paint cars in the earlier years. Today's reports have the cars listed individually, with the individual special paint color stats. Also, we occasionally see earlier run reports 1 digit off in the stats, compared to later year reports.
Rich,
Did Marti end up buying all of the old ford invoices that Louis Eminger had ?
She worked at Ford, and went dumpster diving when Ford tossed thousandth of invoice and build sheets.
Very fine lady !
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on November 04, 2021, 08:38:47 AM
Rich,
Did Marti end up buying all of the old ford invoices that Louis Eminger had ?
She worked at Ford, and went dumpster diving when Ford tossed thousandth of invoice and build sheets.
Very fine lady !
John
John,
Yes, he has "the lot". Now, about that Intermeccanica Italia you have ;)
Bill
Most of the relevant information is available from Ford at no charge. Save your money....
Quote from: Harris Speedster on November 04, 2021, 08:38:47 AM
Rich,
Did Marti end up buying all of the old ford invoices that Louis Eminger had ?
She worked at Ford, and went dumpster diving when Ford tossed thousandth of invoice and build sheets.
Very fine lady !
John
Ford INVITED SAAC to look at the paper that they had before they dumpted it. That was somewhere around '86 and Pardee and Kopec went out to the warehouse and loaded up everything Ford was offering.
They just rented a truck and loaded it up.
There was one caveat, Ford asked them to share the "Mustang" paper work with Lois.
So what they did was Zerox everything and give Lois the originals as I understand it? The window stickers on the '68 Shelby's was the carbon copy and SOMETIMES the onion skin. Half of those, about 1,900, never showed up and were not in Ford's possession and thus Lois never had them either.
It's possible they were just not filed correctly and are still in the Ford warehouse?
I was told that the Ford warehouse was so big that it makes the warehouse scene in the "Raiders of the Lost Ark", look tiny. I can imagine.
Howard said they had paper work on cars from before WWI that he saw.
We kept some original items that they did not ask to share with Lois such as the original IBM punch cards.
This idea that Lois is the original source is just incorrect and misguided.
I believe that the documents that Dave has now came out of Shelby's attic at the Goodyear Tire Warehouse out in LA? Ford didn't have those and as a result Marti doesn't either. Just SAAC.
Now it isn't really anyone's fault that this is a misconception because it's just an issue that SAAC never really has emphasized any of this and the other thing is that there are still a lot of air heads that deny the significance of SAAC at all.
That's just the way it is I suppose?
Doug,
I don't have any information from Shelby. That information was strictly 1966 and older. What I have came from Ford.
Dave
Quote from: GT350DAVE on November 04, 2021, 10:29:58 AM
Doug,
I don't have any information from Shelby. That information was strictly 1966 and older. What I have came from Ford.
Dave
That's fine. As long as you have it.
I don't think that it is going out on the limb for someone to write a detailed article about the "horde" acquisition. It needs telling AGAIN.
There are still apprehensions about who, what, where, etc., and who it was given too and who it got shared with.
Lots of newbies are misquoting everything, are denying SAAC and it's credibility. Some of which can be seen here at times.
The latest to me are all the "Dealer installed Lemans Stripes" on '67s. That is WAY out of control. It's to the point of people advertising their cars as "stripe delete". ;)
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 04, 2021, 11:07:02 AM
I don't think that it is going out on the limb for someone to write a detailed article about the "horde" acquisition. It needs telling AGAIN.
There are still apprehensions about who, what, where, etc., and who it was given too and who it got shared with.
Lots of newbies are misquoting everything, are denying SAAC and it's credibility. Some of which can be seen here at times.
Ford probably cleaned out all the 67 SA stuff when they took over. That is all probably still tucked away in their warehouse under some obscure filing system.
As is typical when the horde was discovered and shipped east it was seen by the previous holder just to be old trash from a bygone era with no value - He was probably laughing how he Tom Sawyered the easterners into cleaning up his warehouse. It wasn't until years later when he saw a business opportunity that the old stuff was given another thought - Kinda like his photographer who has sold his collection several times and then screwed each of the buyers.
There is a disconnect between the new and old. The new could care less beyond living on the legend that was created. They are in business to modify street cars/trucks and mark up Kirkham reproductions. Team Shelby has apparently failed to spark an interest and was brought inhouse. Their "registry" is nothing - not on line - not printed - only a prospect mailing list for SA to pitch for a new sale. There are well over 100,000 new Shelby Ford products out there relying on the heritage created by Shelby American in a brief 5 year period from 62-67. I use that time frame because that is the time Shelby controlled his fate. Midway into 67 Ford took over the assets and building of cars. CS became a figurehead and race team with a 3 year contract. Even when the "new" GT500 appeared CS was merely a figurehead. Ford's SVT had done all the development on the car and marketing was at a loss on how to sell it since earlier "performance" Mustangs relying on SVO and Cobra (even GT350) hadn't sparked enough interest to justify the development cost. Now we see Ford again retreating from paying outside royalties to Shelby American (to use Shelby - Ford owns the other TMs) and the McQueen family. Badging the Mach-1 ties the ICE performance Mustang to their real goal selling the Mustang Mach-E
Guys,
I bought my first Eminger invoice around 1979-1981.
Not sure about later acquisitions she made.
As with Shelby's, people liked to make up stories about what they>> lets say>> created.
When stickers purchased from Louis displayed fake air 1957 Supercharged F Thunderbird's in the country and other ford cars, unscrupulous types stamping numbers basically.
Same basics with Shelby and Cobra, and how important it is that our cars can be truly documented.
.
Bill>>> just found out that my Italia and all others are listed in a new book on Intermeccanica Italia's etc, that released, engine information, colors, production dates, build changes, Holman & Moody's parts with pictures etc.
I did give you one showing 65 fastbacks, fairlaines, ? 67 TA, 427 boats, hipo engines sitting in shops of H/M.
Even though not proper to some now, never over until the fat lady gets on stage and sings
Respectfully,
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on November 04, 2021, 08:38:47 AM
Rich,
Did Marti end up buying all of the old ford invoices that Louis Eminger had ?
She worked at Ford, and went dumpster diving when Ford tossed thousandth of invoice and build sheets.
Very fine lady !
John
I met Lois a few times since she was local. She drove a 71-3 Mustang vert(Husband was president of the Tbird club at one time IIRC). My invoices started in the early 80s. She told me she sold the originals but went to the copy store to make a copy first before she would send out the originals just in case the original ones got lost or never transferred with a car. When I found out NPD employees were sorting out the Shelby ones she had I didn't buy mine immediately(almost a really dumb move). I finally bought mine and it took her about 4 months to find mine she said as it was looking for a needle in a haystack in a nice note with my invoices(I'm sure she didn't look 8 hours a day for 4 months!). She found one in a Wixom Mi folder and the other in a Japanese export folder(my car was exported to France when new). After I got mine I heard she sold what she had to Kevin. I am not sure if Kevin sells the originals when still there or copies to buyers. An example is my old Boss 429 KK2039. I bought the invoices from Lois in 1986. They went with the car. A subsequent owner said he never got them when he bought the car so I assume Kevin has copies of the originals on hand. Gary
My 1st interaction with Lois was back in mid 70's when I was working at the T-Bird store in Livonia,
the owner was involved with the T-Bird club, and as a former purchaser @ Ford knew Lois both via the club and Ford.
Lois had been instrumental in obtaining the Rouge production records for 55-57 including T-bird, as I recall it was kind of a inside deal because of her position.
We began discussions with Lois (who worked in the FoMoCo Legal Counsel office) of when the Dearborn production records (paperwork)
would be purged from the storage, specifically 1964-66 Mustang, and if the San Jose records could also be saved.
There was a lot of Legal Dept. internal discussion of what they would require to release the records, and while all the back & forth was happening, we were suddenly told the records had been dumped, sorry too late !
I believe there was quite a bit of negotiations with Kevin Marti before an agreement was made to release the electronic database to him,
if memory serves me it took several days of Ford dumping data on a memory stick and Kevin loading it onto his laptop.
Sidebar; while working at T-Bird store, there was a shop in Plymouth MI that had the mold for the T-Bird steering wheel center plastic medallion, and we were working to get a new run made.
They mentioned they had some fiberglass parts molds for Shelby Mustangs, and we inquired if we could purchase a run of parts, they replied Ford owned the molds and they would have to get a release to use the molds.
That never happened because at the time Ford didn't care, didn't see any market value in it, then a few years later they told us Ford had the molds scrapped. I don't recall what part it was for exactly, but my impression was it was 67 nose panel mold brought back from CA, used initially for service part supply to Ford Parts Div.
regards
jim p
Quote from: 6R07mi on November 05, 2021, 01:17:33 PM
My 1st interaction with Lois was back in mid 70's when I was working at the T-Bird store in Livonia,
the owner was involved with the T-Bird club, and as a former purchaser @ Ford knew Lois both via the club and Ford.
Lois had been instrumental in obtaining the Rouge production records for 55-57 including T-bird, as I recall it was kind of a inside deal because of her position.
We began discussions with Lois (who worked in the FoMoCo Legal Counsel office) of when the Dearborn production records (paperwork)
would be purged from the storage, specifically 1964-66 Mustang, and if the San Jose records could also be saved.
There was a lot of Legal Dept. internal discussion of what they would require to release the records, and while all the back & forth was happening, we were suddenly told the records had been dumped, sorry too late !
I believe there was quite a bit of negotiations with Kevin Marti before an agreement was made to release the electronic database to him,
if memory serves me it took several days of Ford dumping data on a memory stick and Kevin loading it onto his laptop.
Sidebar; while working at T-Bird store, there was a shop in Plymouth MI that had the mold for the T-Bird steering wheel center plastic medallion, and we were working to get a new run made.
They mentioned they had some fiberglass parts molds for Shelby Mustangs, and we inquired if we could purchase a run of parts, they replied Ford owned the molds and they would have to get a release to use the molds.
That never happened because at the time Ford didn't care, didn't see any market value in it, then a few years later they told us Ford had the molds scrapped. I don't recall what part it was for exactly, but my impression was it was 67 nose panel mold brought back from CA, used initially for service part supply to Ford Parts Div.
regards
jim p
Thanks for the history Jim! What years did you work at the Tbird parts store? I cannot remember the first time I found out that they sold Mustang parts and started using them(early 80s?). At the time i would also get 20% off parts at Demmer Ford as my Father-in-law worked at Ford. I remember when NPD bought them out. My customer service ID is under "400". It is easier to give the employees my customer number than spell my last name. Gary
Quote from: Harris Speedster on November 05, 2021, 08:49:42 AM
Bill>>> just found out that my Italia and all others are listed in a new book on Intermeccanica Italia's etc, that released, engine information, colors, production dates, build changes, Holman & Moody's parts with pictures etc.
I did give you one showing 65 fastbacks, fairlaines, ? 67 TA, 427 boats, hipo engines sitting in shops of H/M.
Even though not proper to some now, never over until the fat lady gets on stage and sings
Respectfully,
John
Let me know when you get it, I'd love to see the tech sheet for your car.
Bill
Shelbyman,
You may have known John Cooper from Mi. He owned the largest privatly held conveyor/line assenbly plants in N America. Whe I refer to the 45-50 collection, it is John's.
He was a real focus in the Bird Clubs for many years.
Supercharged F birds and more.
It sounds like you have a difficult to spell last name, so do I, why Big Jim Cowles penned me " John From Utah, which stuck.
As I mentioned, Louis was a fine lady, right place at the right time too.
Bill, I have not ordered the book. A historian from Italy, of which assisted in the books writing, contacted me after a post I did on a Intermeccanica that was being publicly sold. Bid to about 125K. as I recall, no sale, but next day was announced it roughly sold at 185K. Which sellers thought was still to cheap, but finished deal anyway. Seller wanted over 200K . Its color highly resembles the Calypso red used by ford, drop dead stunning color.
Reisner family, which built the cars in Italy back in the 60's-70's, restored the Italia for him. My opinion is it had many faults as far as being a Concour example for points showing.
Show the pic if you want of the H/M facility.
Respectfully,
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on November 06, 2021, 09:25:24 AM
Shelbyman,
You may have known John Cooper from Mi. He owned the largest privatly held conveyor/line assenbly plants in N America. Whe I refer to the 45-50 collection, it is John's.
He was a real focus in the Bird Clubs for many years.
Supercharged F birds and more.
It sounds like you have a difficult to spell last name, so do I, why Big Jim Cowles penned me " John From Utah, which stuck.
As I mentioned, Louis was a fine lady, right place at the right time too.
Bill, I have not ordered the book. A historian from Italy, of which assisted in the books writing, contacted me after a post I did on a Intermeccanica that was being publicly sold. Bid to about 125K. as I recall, no sale, but next day was announced it roughly sold at 185K. Which sellers thought was still to cheap, but finished deal anyway. Seller wanted over 200K . Its color highly resembles the Calypso red used by ford, drop dead stunning color.
Reisner family, which built the cars in Italy back in the 60's-70's, restored the Italia for him. My opinion is it had many faults as far as being a Concour example for points showing.
Show the pic if you want of the H/M facility.
Respectfully,
John
I did not know John Cooper. Could have crossed paths many years ago at a Mi car show? possibly but my focus has always been on 69-70 Mustangs and not other Fords. Gary
Ford Customer Service offers 999 reports for free. I got mine for my 68 KR in 2001 and it appears to be easier on-line now. It is basically a standard Marti report with the information based on the buck tag from what I can tell. Nice because it is on Ford letterhead.
Don
gt350bp
Quote from: gt350bp on November 06, 2021, 12:28:43 PM
Ford Customer Service offers 999 reports for free. I got mine for my 68 KR in 2001 and it appears to be easier on-line now. It is basically a standard Marti report with the information based on the buck tag from what I can tell. Nice because it is on Ford letterhead.
Don
gt350bp
mine says my GT350 vert came with a red vinyl top ;D ??? ::) Other than that spot on.
Ford reports are notoriously inaccurate because they have junior employees looking up 60 year old codes. You get what you pay for in this case.
Quote from: gt350bp on November 06, 2021, 12:28:43 PM
Ford Customer Service offers 999 reports for free. I got mine for my 68 KR in 2001 and it appears to be easier on-line now. It is basically a standard Marti report with the information based on the buck tag from what I can tell. Nice because it is on Ford letterhead.
Don
gt350bp
Yes
Quote from: Tired Sheep on November 06, 2021, 04:29:01 PM
Ford reports are notoriously inaccurate because they have junior employees looking up 60 year old codes. You get what you pay for in this case.
True