I have the opportunity to purchase a numbers matching, 70 GT500 extremely cheap. Problem is, it was in an accident yearrrssssss ago and the right front side has some pretty bad damage. I plan to do the repairs PROPERLY and completely restore the car. The problem is that the right front apron will have to be replaced, and I will loose the VIN stamp. How is this handled, and what will it do to the value of the vehicle.
Many cars don't have the VIN stamped on the R/F apron anymore. That apron has the battery tray in it and even cars from the driest climate end up rusting out there. Save the numbers from the original piece
A local shop has replaced the entire front clip on a similar car while not removing the VIN stamps. It can be done if the right shop is doing the work properly.
Quote from: kasearch@ix.netcom.com on February 08, 2022, 09:31:56 AM
I have the opportunity to purchase a numbers matching, 70 GT500 extremely cheap. Problem is, it was in an accident yearrrssssss ago and the right front side has some pretty bad damage. I plan to do the repairs PROPERLY and completely restore the car. The problem is that the right front apron will have to be replaced, and I will loose the VIN stamp. How is this handled, and what will it do to the value of the vehicle.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on February 08, 2022, 10:16:02 AM
A local shop has replaced the entire front clip on a similar car while not removing the VIN stamps. It can be done if the right shop is doing the work properly.
+1, save/repair as much of the original panel with the VIN stamp as possible.
Number is on top shocktower on 69 dearborn cars except for boss 429s the # is stamped on the front aprons.
Quote from: kasearch@ix.netcom.com on February 08, 2022, 09:31:56 AM
I have the opportunity to purchase a numbers matching, 70 GT500 extremely cheap. Problem is, it was in an accident yearrrssssss ago and the right front side has some pretty bad damage. I plan to do the repairs PROPERLY and completely restore the car. The problem is that the right front apron will have to be replaced, and I will loose the VIN stamp. How is this handled, and what will it do to the value of the vehicle.
If its just the inner fender panel/aprons you should be fine as far as the VIN since unless there is something unusual the VIN is not typically stamped there that year. Instead it was applied to the shock tower upper surface at Dearborn
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/16/6-080222141532-16936168.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/16/6-080222141726-169371362.jpeg)
Cut out the vin about 1-2" away and have it hammer welded into the replacement panel. Body work the weld and you'll never see it. Don't be afraid to ask a welder to see the quality of his work before entrusting him with this job.
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on February 08, 2022, 02:52:56 PM
Cut out the vin about 1-2" away and have it hammer welded into the replacement panel. Body work the weld and you'll never see it. Don't be afraid to ask a welder to see the quality of his work before entrusting him with this job.
That's what I was thinking. Easy as pie... but is it legal to do this?
QSS
Quote from: QuickSilverShelby on February 08, 2022, 07:12:02 PM
That's what I was thinking. Easy as pie... but is it legal to do this?
That is a very long deep rabbit hole. It depends on where you live and the local authorities though Federal law is sometimes different. If you try to make it look like it did originally that could be seen as possible fraud by some agencies and at some point. Going to stop there because of the for mentioned concern.
Miss the popcorn emoji
Makes me wonder about some past projects... anybody remember a "questionable" resto?
Federal regs. 2B takes it out of state hands and permits it since are not restoring or replacing the number (which I take to mean restamping all or part of it). You are merely making a necessary repair and transferring the original number to an unserialized part in the same location as originally stamped.
1364. ALTERING OR REMOVING MOTOR VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION NUMBERS
Section 511(a) of Title 18 makes it a felony knowingly to remove, obliterate, tamper with, or alter an identification number for a road motor vehicle or a road motor vehicle part. Section 511(b) of Title 18 creates exceptions for certain persons who engage in lawful conduct that may result in removal or alteration of an identification number. The legislative history is abundantly clear that subsection (b) is not intended to create a loophole for the operators of "chop shops." See H.R.Rep. No. 1087 on H.R. 6257, 98th Congress, 2d Sess. 23-25 (1984).
(1)Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in paragraph (2) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).
(2)The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection are—
(A)a motor vehicle scrap processor or a motor vehicle demolisher who complies with applicable State law with respect to such vehicle or part;
(B)a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair;
(C)a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law; and
+1 on What J and 98SVT said.
You need to check your state vehicle or crimes code, D.O.T. regs, and Federal law (which I think is what 98SVT posted). Generally speaking, repairs are permitted as long as you follow those laws and are not misrepresenting or concealing the identity of the vehicle or part. Your state D.O.T. website might be a good place to start.
I suggest talking to Brett Matteson at cape cod mustangs about impact to value - he has bought and sold a ton of Shelbys.
If the car has a junk or salvage title, I would think the value of the car is cut in half. That is JMO based on what I would want to pay for a salvage title Shelby. If it is not a salvage title, I would think the value would be impacted very little if it was repaired to a very high standard even if the VIN stamp is missing on only the Right side, but is present on the left side fender apron. I don't think it is worth the risk of grafting a VIN into the fender apron.
Quote from: 5566 on February 08, 2022, 08:56:28 PM
+1 on What J and 98SVT said.
You need to check your state vehicle or crimes code, D.O.T. regs, and Federal law (which I think is what 98SVT posted). Generally speaking, repairs are permitted as long as you follow those laws and are not misrepresenting or concealing the identity of the vehicle or part. Your state D.O.T. website might be a good place to start.
Please record this conversation with the state DOT. Assuming you could find someone who has an inkling of what your talking about, I would love to hear how that discussion goes.
QSS
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on February 08, 2022, 08:23:22 PM
Federal regs. 2B takes it out of state hands
Yes in theory thats true but the local DMV boys with the John Wayne complex can screw things up in a hurry. I once had a customer call me with his car we restored because local (CA) DMV was going to impound his car because the VIN (dash tag) was missing and there was no cut out for it. I had him put me on the phone with officer who got all big with me. I asked him where he was looking and he said drivers side where they always are. I told him to look at the passenger side (68). He got real quiet
Please record this conversation with the state DOT. Assuming you could find someone who has an inkling of what your talking about, I would love to hear how that discussion goes.
QSS
I think it depends on what the question is. If you want to know what the law says regarding a VIN, check with the state police (most have specific vehicle investigators) or an attorney who specializes in vehicle law (before a judge or jury has to decide :)
If the question is what repairs or modifications can be made to a vehicle, and how that might that affect titling, registration, safety/emissions inspection, etc. then state police may be able to help, or DOT. In my state, most of the info. is on the DOT website or can be found with a little online searching.
It seems to me that this was covered in an earlier post. The VIN you cut out is not ending up on another body, but is going to be put back on the original car after repairs have been made. Check the search feature on this topic.
I'm almost positive this topic has come up before. Good luck!
Pete.
Bill Collins who is a well respected member here who has been involved with Shelby vehicles a long time and traded / bought many can probably chime in here with some good advice about what is suspect and what is not.
Maybe he sees this thread.
The repair can be done in a manner that salvages as much of the original as possible and i my opinion keeping vin on the original car should not be an issue. document the process before during and after .
Again, just do not remove, alter, deface or modify the VIN. Obey any local, Federal, state statutes. The job can be done properly without violating anything - by the right shop or the right guy. Not saying it will be cheap or easy.