Can someone let me know if 1967 Shelby mustangs were titled with the Shelby serial number or Ford VIN number? That is, when they were registered with the local DMV, was the Ford VIN or Shelby serial number recorded on the title?
Quote from: rdmgt350 on April 30, 2022, 10:41:07 AM
Can someone let me know if 1967 Shelby mustangs were titled with the Shelby serial number or Ford VIN number? That is, when they were registered with the local DMV, was the Ford VIN or Shelby serial number recorded on the title?
They can and have been done ether way. Originally the intention was to use the Shelby number as Shelby American was a legitimate federally recognized vehicle Manufacturer however some states didn't understand and were fussy insisting on the Ford vin instead. So s#!t happens. ;D
I think it should be the SHELBY VIN...Every car I ever owned has been that way. Not sure why it would not be that way since the only number exposed on the car is the SHELBY VIN?
(Could there be "funny business"?)
They can and have been done ether way. Originally the intention was to use the Shelby number as Shelby American was a legitimate federally recognized vehicle Manufacturer however some states didn't understand and were fussy insisting on the Ford vin instead. So s#!t happens. ;D
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Do you have a list of States that would have done that? Wouldn't the 67 Registry reflect that?
FYI the Ford VIN is just as good for identifying a Shelby as a Shelby. What we think want and what the states want is besides the point. Only one Ford vin corresponds to one Shelby vin and vice versa. It doesn't matter which is used on a title for that purpose. It still is what it is. Of course this wouldn't be as easy for the 65-67 Shelby's without the help of our devoted registrars.
Quote from: 67 GT350 on April 30, 2022, 10:54:51 AM
They can and have been done ether way. Originally the intention was to use the Shelby number as Shelby American was a legitimate federally recognized vehicle Manufacturer however some states didn't understand and were fussy insisting on the Ford vin instead. So s#!t happens. ;D
Do you have a list of States that would have done that? Wouldn't the 67 Registry reflect that?
[/quote] Any state or their employee has the potential and the power to be a a hole if they want to. Given that Shelby American was a legitimate vehicle Manufacturer technically and in theory all states should recognize that. Theory and what happens in real world can be two different things. :) For example I have had my state MO titles with both Shelby vin and Ford vin . It depended on what office ,what person etc. you went to . I can remember over hearing a highway patrol vehicle inspector brag how they come in as Shelby and leave a Mustang. Just a guy trying to squeeze every bit of power out of his job. Sometimes it can be as simple as bringing in the SAAC registry and explaining things. But be prepared to be shut down because many will not recognize that as authoritative enough. Sometimes it is not worth the fight,the time and money it takes to get the job done. As I said before it is what it is regardless of if Shelby or Ford vin. I would think if you wanted to push the issue getting a copy of the federal document of Shelby's Vehicle Manufacture authority for a given year would have to be a Perry Mason moment . At the end of the day they have the power to do whatever they want evidence or no evidence so it is best to be polite. ;)
+1000 on what Bob just said.
The state of Texas has rules for Antique license plates. They are good for five years. You can get the state issued "Antique" plate, or present a set from the year the car was made (So I have 1969 Texas Plates on my 1969 coupe). About 10 years ago, Texas decided to streamline and redo the antique plate system. My 1970 Mach, I got the renewal and went down and it was zero issue. the new system SEEMED much better. The new "sticker" is affixed to a small metal plate you attach to those 1970 license plates, it has their current registration number, the last 4 (or 6) of the original VIN, the letters and number off the 1970 plates, all in small print. Done, easy, good for another 5 years. My 1969? We've owned the car since the early 1970's. It's been titled and registered in Texas since 1975. I get ZIP for paperwork. So I go in when I renew the 1970. They fumble around and say "oh, this is one that got messed up.....bring in those plates and the paperwork from......5 years ago". OK, Fine. I keep that stuff so make another trip. Nope, get told they ALSO need to see the title to the 1969. ANOTHER Trip. This time I've got the 1969 plates, the 5 years old paperwork, the title. I get some young thing who looks tired and lost. She looks at my 1969 Texas Title and declares "What is THIS! This isn't a valid motor vehicle! VIN's are 16 digits and this must be illegal...." I has holding off with my blood pressure as I was about to tell her I'd be back in half an hour, WITH THE 1969 FORD MUSTANG". An older worker walked up behind the first person, put their hand on their shoulder and said "It's time for your break now". I held back my laughter. The older lady then looked over everything, knew exactly what she was looking at, explained how for some reason the state had screwed up roughly HALF the antique renewals, and she'd set this straight. Oh how I wished I'd gotten her on my first visit! So yeah, we are totally at the mercy of the government and government employees and it depends on which one you are dealing with. Multiply that by the 50 or so years these cars have been in existence and the number of title changes......
Don't get me stated with our THIRD attempt dealing with the IRS about a deceased family member.
The flip side to this is all the times I see people abusing the "Antique" status of their vehicles where I live.
- Phillip
Quote from: propayne on April 30, 2022, 12:57:40 PM
The flip side to this is all the times I see people abusing the "Antique" status of their vehicles where I live.
- Phillip
How so?
here in Texas, the massive issue is the Temporary Tags.
Well my car is titled in Ca. under the Shelby vin with ford as the manufacturer ::)
Quote from: rhjanes on April 30, 2022, 10:27:14 PM
Quote from: propayne on April 30, 2022, 12:57:40 PM
The flip side to this is all the times I see people abusing the "Antique" status of their vehicles where I live.
- Phillip
How so?
here in Texas, the massive issue is the Temporary Tags.
The benefits of having a car or truck registered and tagged as an antique in Virginia are numerous, but there are restrictions on how they can be used.
I see people abusing those restrictions fairly often.
- Phillip
The 9 most dreaded words you can hear "I'm from the government and I'm here to help". >:(
TOB
Quote from: propayne on May 01, 2022, 08:55:13 AM
Quote from: rhjanes on April 30, 2022, 10:27:14 PM
Quote from: propayne on April 30, 2022, 12:57:40 PM
The flip side to this is all the times I see people abusing the "Antique" status of their vehicles where I live.
- Phillip
How so?
here in Texas, the massive issue is the Temporary Tags.
The benefits of having a car or truck registered and tagged as an antique in Virginia are numerous, but there are restrictions on how they can be used.
I see people abusing those restrictions fairly often.
- Phillip
Thanks. Texas used to have some limits on the usage if licensed as an antique. They gave up on that a long time ago. Now the state figures your insurance probably limits usage. And insurance savings are much greater than the license fee ($10 a year for antique versus around $75 a year for our daily drivers). On my two antiques the yearly insurance bill is about what we pay each MONTH on the three daily drivers. The state also considers that the old cars are, for the most part, not driven all that much. Very few of my friends with antique plates, drive the antique more than a few thousand miles a year.
Here's the snip on the Texas application.
Vehicles at least 25 years old will be issued one Antique plate to be displayed on the rear of the vehicle for a five-year period. The fee
is $50 if the vehicle was manufactured in 1921 or later; the fee is $40 if the vehicle was manufactured prior to 1921.
Instead of an Antique plate, the owner of an antique vehicle may use an embossed license plate issued by this state that is the same
year as the model year of the vehicle. The plate must have the original color scheme, and be in good, readable condition. If the
original plate is approved by your local county tax assessor-collector's office, a plate tab with a registration sticker will be issued to
show the plate is valid.
Replicas of Texas license plates are not acceptable. Plates with an alpha-numeric pattern that are already in use or qualifying license
plates such as a Farm plate, Dealer plate, etc., will not be approved.
Proof of financial responsibility (insurance) or a copy of the completed Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) affidavit (DPS Form
Getting the Tax people to accept the old antique plates used to be an issue. I've not done that since 1994 so I don't know if that is still a hassle.
I don't know. Put me on the "We The People" list will you.
The Shelby American VIN IS the vin. I have never seen or heard of (until today) the Ford vin being acceptable. And, if the elderly or undertrained State employee doesn't understand that, then that is the time you ask them to go check with their supervisor for a little clarification.
Same thing with the numbers of digits in the vin, they don't know? Please ask your supervisor for guidance.
If that that does not get you satisfaction, collect the paperwork you brought in and go to another office.
And, I too want to see the list of States where that (accepting the Ford vin) is acceptable.
What does the title say it is?
Quote from: roddster on May 01, 2022, 12:24:48 PM
I don't know. Put me on the "We The People" list will you.
The Shelby American VIN IS the vin. I have never seen or heard of (until today) the Ford vin being acceptable. And, if the elderly or undertrained State employee doesn't understand that, then that is the time you ask them to go check with their supervisor for a little clarification.
Same thing with the numbers of digits in the vin, they don't know? Please ask your supervisor for guidance.
If that that does not get you satisfaction, collect the paperwork you brought in and go to another office.
And, I too want to see the list of States where that (accepting the Ford vin) is acceptable.
What does the title say it is?
Reread the reply #5 . Short vision is even though not correct the States have the authority to do what ever they want.
The key is having the car inspected by someone knowledgeable with Shelbys. When I bought my 66 in 1987 it was titled with the SAI VIN but as a Ford. Went down to a local WA State Patrol office armed with my Registry and asked to have it reinspected and title changed. Got an inspector very knowledgeable with these cars and it was no problem, the title make is now listed as "SHLBY". In WA I have also seen the make listed as "SHELCO".
Something not mentioned is that some states use the title information for personal property tax assessment purposes. I know many over the years who live in states like mine where we have to pay personal property tax that have set aside their ego to save $ on tax's and list their classic Shelby as a Mustang and with the Ford VIN . Given that only one Ford VIN will go with a specific Shelby number the car is not diminished regardless of how it is listed on the title. I know the assessed value of a 65 Mustang is assessed at 50.00 a year in my area I would hate to speculate on what a 65 GT350 and its market value in the 350-550K range would be assessed at per year. I know of some Cobra owners that have the make listed simply as Ford with the short CSX vin for the same reasons. I know for a fact my county assessor office uses at least one of the different guide books like Hagerty or NADA . Easy for a novice to catch high value collector cars with names like Shelby, Pantera etc. so to get red flagged. I am sure that other offices that are in charge of collecting personal property tax's on cars do the same thing. Of course this doesn't matter much in states that don't collect taxes on personal property but I also am aware of people who search state data bases for particular vin's like 65/66 Shelby vins that are unique looking compared with the Ford vin so as to cold call owners in search of cars for sale. Just a few things to be aware of regardless of it it effects you directly or not. It is prudent IMO to understand someone else's perspective that may have different issues then you.
Quote from: roddster on May 01, 2022, 12:24:48 PM
I don't know. Put me on the "We The People" list will you.
The Shelby American VIN IS the vin. I have never seen or heard of (until today) the Ford vin being acceptable. And, if the elderly or undertrained State employee doesn't understand that, then that is the time you ask them to go check with their supervisor for a little clarification.
Same thing with the numbers of digits in the vin, they don't know? Please ask your supervisor for guidance.
If that that does not get you satisfaction, collect the paperwork you brought in and go to another office.
And, I too want to see the list of States where that (accepting the Ford vin) is acceptable.
What does the title say it is?
+1 and many more.
Since when does any DMV, pull a tag off and take the number under it? Something is not right with that. I have had the DMV in NY change my car from a SHELBY to a FORD and visversa to where, when we moved to Tennessee I had it changed back, easy, they look in their manual and see what I am telling them is true and DONE! As far as States taxing value and all that other jazz, no wonder why at some car shows you see delapitated cars, that makes them cheaper to register. Believe me Hemmings value guide is NOT your friend.
On a lighter note, my one Shelby says, "SHELB" the other car says "SHLB" on their titles...LOL.....
Shelby American was the manufacturer of origin and had a manufacturer number. When I registered my 66 i Hawaii it had that manufacturer code. Since the Ford vin is not visible it made sense and there was no hassle. I do not recall the Federal manufacturer code number but that should be the reference to use. 8)
Quote from: Don Johnston on May 01, 2022, 03:19:28 PM
Shelby American was the manufacturer of origin and had a manufacturer number. When I registered my 66 i Hawaii it had that manufacturer code. Since the Ford vin is not visible it made sense and there was no hassle. I do not recall the Federal manufacturer code number but that should be the reference to use. 8)
+1
Exactly, the DMV has a good, they look up that code which tells them everything they need to know.