Not liking this news at all
https://www.musclecarsandtrucks.com/ford-pulls-out-of-2022-sema-show/
I think Ford is overestimating the demand for electric vehicles at this time.
When people start recognizing the true costs of EV they will have second thoughts.
I agree with you 100% and hope your right - Really Disappointing especially with Farley at the helm and to be honest with you
I think that it is just a sign of the times.
Printed material in magazines such as Motor Trend, Car and Driver, are all but gone.
People can get all of the information on their computer for free.
There are a bunch of online Journalists evaluating and testing the majority of all new cars. Most all of the manufacturers have media days where the journalists are invited to come and video test drives and evaluations of the current offerings.
YouTube has tons of content by some pretty competent hosts with decent editing skills. Most, tend to present unbiased opinions for their subscribers.
Don't forget, SEMA is a trade show, generally not open to the public. A trade show for Manufacturers and large suppliers of replacement and aftermarket car parts. Another words, targeting suppliers and vendors that sell vehicle parts.... To people, who likely already own a specific vehicle.
In 2005, the new Mustang had been shared with the aftermarket car part manufactures in advance. There were aftermarket parts available for the 2005 Mustang at the time of it's introduction. I think that it was genius on Ford's part, to work with the custom and aftermarket car parts industry.
Ford will have a presence at SEMA, but they won't have to pay for it.
http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=18834.0
QuoteI think Ford is overestimating the demand for electric vehicles at this time.
When people start recognizing the true costs of EV they will have second thoughts.
Ditto
As someone, somewhere might have said, EVs are an answer to a misunderstood question.
Farley have any aftermarket parts in his vintage racing "289" Cobra or is he converting to electric?
Quote from: csxsfm on April 30, 2022, 10:28:07 PM
Farley have any aftermarket parts in his vintage racing "289" Cobra or is he converting to electric?
Farley doesn't care about current performance - unless it uses current. He came from Toyota and has a global not US view of the automobile. We Americans will need to become accustomed to buying transportation pods they want us to have not something we want for it's looks or performance.
I wonder how long before the new battery powered ElectraGlide-E hits the streets? I'll wager they are already pitching blue city PDs on the advantages of electric motorcycles.
Farley represents Ford on the board of directors of the U.S. China Business Council is co-chair of the Future of Mobility Commission. In May 2021, shareholders of Harley-Davidson Inc. elected Farley to a seat on the board of directors of the legendary motorcycle maker.
Ford is going to split into 3 groups. If you read between the lines ICE will be the commercial vehicles group and everything else will be electric. I'll wager with Ford dropping SEMA and going to the Consumer Electronics Show they will be getting out of the performance business altogether. How long before Shelby is again abandoned on the side of the road by Ford looking at the future. Last time it happened gas prices were going up and .gov was tightening fuel requirements - kinda like they are doing now.
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2022/03/02/ford-ceo-jim-farley-unveils-plan-ev-model-e/6981544001/
Ford CEO Jim Farley is dividing up company operations, creating three separate automotive business units that include its existing commercial arm, as well as two new ones: Ford Blue, which will focus on the traditional internal combustion engine, and Ford Model e, which will develop the battery electric vehicles and connectivity, the company revealed Wednesday morning.
This step is designed to make the 118-year-old automaker more competitive against Tesla, the biggest electric vehicle competitor in the industry, as well as others, Farley told the Free Press during an interview.
Each division will have its own leadership, with the traditional vehicle skill team led by Kumar Galhotra, who has been Ford president of the Americas and International Markets Group. The newly created all-electric vehicle (EV) skill team will be led by Farley.
QuoteFarley doesn't care about current performance - unless it uses current. He came from Toyota and has a global not US view of the automobile. We Americans will need to become accustomed to buying transportation pods they want us to have not something we want for it's looks or performance.
Very insightful observation IMHO, in addition to your other comments.
Didn't know Farley's background so I'm not surprised at his automotive views. Plus being on the U.S. China Business council is an increasing negative given world events.
As for transportation pods, I look at Tesla. Styling has a pod vibe, which most owners are indiffernt to. Then take the Mustang MachE and I see a borderline pod that could have been styled by Tesla. And you're right that auto manufacturers (with government in the background) are building what they want us to have not what we want. It's always been my opinion that the people advocating for EV transition don't like cars and ultimately would prefer public transportation for you, but not them.
Glad that Ford is bright enought to maintain an ICE division.
As an aside, I wonder how the electrical grid will handle the additional car charging demand. It also occurs to me that First World countries are transitioning to EVs but alot of the world isn't. Will EVs be popular in Mexico and Central and South America?
Quote from: 68countrysedan on May 04, 2022, 01:06:09 PMGlad that Ford is bright enough to maintain an ICE division.
That will go away once they figure out how to electrify the big trucks. The main thrust of the ICE division will be the F550 and up. All the current small truck and SUV ICE development will be stagnant and their production will be moved to the E division as soon as their electric drivetrains are developed. I see the Expedition as the first one that will fully move over using the current F150 Lighting drive. I'll wager in 5 years ICE will be F550 up and diesel only and in 10 years that will also be gone.
Of course a big recession/depression will change the entire game plan and electric cars will be the first to go. All the US auto plants will get shuttered and we'll be driving Ford & GM cars from their plants in Mexico assembled with parts sourced from their plants in China.
^^^. Brett, I agree on all you wrote.
This is a gigantic stupid gamble for car makers. But, too late to turn back now..so they say.
Your last paragraph is nail-on-the-head accurate. A big recession/depression would also ruin Tesla and any other company made mostly of Bu11Sh1t. Unless they're making electric shopping carts by then. But, who will be able to afford groceries?
No eating = no human methane = saving the planet. A ha! THAT's the government's plan!!!
Mr. 98SVT and Mr. Side Oiler:
Ditto on both your comments.
The more they push electric cars the higher gas powered cars are going to get. It's going to take a while to convince a lot of people to go electric. There is a market for electric cars it's been proven. I just don't think it's as big as they think it is. The way they're going at it they must think everyone is going to switch over night. A lot of people have even switched from electric golf carts to gas in the beach areas in North and South Carolina. That might should send up a red flag.
Disadvantages of EVs include higher initial costs, limited driving range, and battery packs will be expensive to replace. Once the old batteries are out, the potential future hazards to the environment.
My main concern is fear the battery will run out of charge before reaching their destination, or "range anxiety," the fear of too few charging stations, long charge times.
Today we have no worries as a fuel service station is "at every corner" and we pull in, fuel up and leave in no time. That's a commodity we do not want to give up.
We will be the last to entertain purchasing a mobile toaster as transportation
^^^ Tony, I think there will be a lot of us "last guy in line" car people waiting for their Wham-O Toaster Car.
For me, that will be long after Hell has frozen over.
At least then, we'll know where all the fun car guys will be.
I will NEVER own or buy an electric vehicle, period. I'm a car guy. That means real cars, with an internal combustion engine preferably with a large cid and a stick. For the greenies: my car burns rubber and gas!!!
been going to SEMA for several years going again this year....can't believe the news.......This could mean the start of a slow death of SEMA as we know it in the years to come when others follow Fords lead
EVs disadvantages include finding charging stations, charging times, higher initial costs, limited driving range, and battery packs can be expensive to replace. Once the battery is out the environmental hazards they present to our environment.
Imagine losing the ability to pull over and gas up immediately is a hard fact for us to lose.
Having to live with the fear the battery will run out of charge before reaching your destination, or "range anxiety," fear of too few charging stations, long charge times etc.
We will be holding out until we can no longer purchase a fuels powered vehicle. Bycicles are a good alternative.
Quotebeen going to SEMA for several years going again this year....can't believe the news.......This could mean the start of a slow death of SEMA as we know it in the years to come when others follow Fords lead
That thought has crossed my mind.
Will Farley survive his 3.1 Billion dollar loss?
https://lidblog.com/fords-loss-over-electric-car-gamble/
Just heard OBD3 will be mandated for all cars in 2025 - this is bad news and will deserve it's own thread. Even the ACLU has fought it for years.
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on May 05, 2022, 01:10:48 PM
Will Farley survive his 3.1 Billion dollar loss?
https://lidblog.com/fords-loss-over-electric-car-gamble/
Just heard OBD3 will be mandated for all cars in 2025 - this is bad news and will deserve it's own thread. Even the ACLU has fought it for years.
Another perspective:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2022/04/27/ford-posts-3-1-billion-loss-q-1-points-rivian-investment/9556603002/
As a manufacturer, my company attends SEMA each year to support distributors. I spend the majority of time researching trade expertise for my personal projects. Ford has two major exhibits. In the main hall is a display of both new vehicles, and an impressive lineage of classics from which retro designs pay respect. Outside is a large track surrounded by Ford Performance exhibits and Ford affiliates like Roush Racing. The track exhibit is a profoundly asinine display of near constant drifting that only impress a 14 year old. Both exhibits had electric vehicles, Nobody, and I mean nobody gave a shit. A rotted Fairmont would have got more attention. I suspect mgmt is looking at the future and seeing SEMA is not a gateway.
Quote from: vtgt500 on May 05, 2022, 09:18:42 PMI likely spend the majority of time researching trade expertise for my personal projects.
Ford has two major exhibits. In the main hall is a display of both new vehicles, and an impressive lineage of classics ..... Outside is a large track ..... of near constant drifting that only impress a 14 year old. ........ I suspect mgmt is looking at the future and seeing SEMA is not a gateway.
Back in the car magazine days we loved the nice thick SEMA book since it had all the contacts you needed to "research" and call for free parts. My editor was fond of saying we use the best parts we didn't have to pay for. I just tossed last years book out since it had nothing I needed in it.
Even most of the new Ford cars were ignored the classics were there to get you into the booth. Look for that track to be at CES this year - complete with a crowd of millennials and their phones 5 deep to post videos in hopes of being the next influencer Ford lets buy a GT with a guarantee of tripling your money in 2 years when someone who really wanted the car gives you 1.5 million for it.
Ford has done very little to support our classic/vintage/legacy vehicles.
Quote from: csxsfm on May 06, 2022, 01:16:33 PM
Ford has done very little to support our classic/vintage/legacy vehicles.
They are in the business to sell new ones. Support of any of them past the warranty period and .gov mandated time is not on their radar.
Their entire club and brand support is nothing more than a marketing tool to lure you into the purchase of a new Ford. Them bringing back the GT500 name and adding Shelby to the marketing team was 100% a sales scheme since SVO - SVT and even COBRA were not adding the punch needed to boost the sales of performance Mustangs. Now that "Total Performance" seems to be a bad word at Ford I predict SA will again be booted to the curb as it was in 1969.
While the Motorsport catalog can be a great source of parts there are very few "real" hot rod parts. Most are just the overrun of production line parts or slightly modified ones made during the run of stock parts. Once they are gone that's it - too expensive to set up and make more.
Mazda has done it right - They know their Miata is loved and remade most of the parts to keep them on the road. They even launched a Ferrari like factory restoration service that runs about $40 grand per car. https://www.autoblog.com/2018/09/27/mazda-first-factory-restored-miata/
In August 2017, Mazda announced that it will be offering factory quality restoration work for the original, NA body Mazda MX-5 Miata introduced in 1989. The program also included parts support, as Mazda wants to underline how much the original Miata still means to it. The program was launched with exemplary work carried out on a Miata owned by Mazda, but the first customer car has now been finished.
The first car was picked from 600 applications sent to Mazda. Out of all these cars needing factory certified work, the 1992 British Racing Green V-Special owned by retired tomato farmer Keiji Nishimoto was chosen to be the first. The Eunos-badged limited-edition car was bought new by Nishimoto, and he told Mazda the car had been instrumental in creating some wonderful road-trip memories. The V-Special edition came in a British roadster-style color combination: "Neo" green over tan leather, complete with a retro-style Nardi wood wheel. The car also has a front strut bar and a limited-slip differential.
++++++ 1
comments continue being on target. I would also opine that Ford management doesn't really like cars (I wonder if any ever get their hands dirty working on them) but they do like computers on wheels. i.e. EVs with wi-fi connected 11-inch screens. And they really can't wait until self driving cars are widely available.
Quote from: 68countrysedan on May 06, 2022, 07:21:38 PMI would also opine that Ford management doesn't really like cars
I broached this same subject with my uncle (he ran the Cleveland engine/casting plant) back in the mid 80s when Red Poling got the nod. I pointed out they put in a bean counter and not really a car guy. He explained the stock holders wanted more return and he was to appease them. He added that the real car guys were only in development and they had to sell their ideas first to marketing and then marketing had to pitch the Board on why to spend the money. If the board gave the nod then the real work started by paring every spare .0001 cent out to the product. Doesn't sound like much but multiply that by a couple hundred thousand cars and you'll see where the money is really made. Even today Ford suppliers keep 2 sets of books since their contracts limit them to a 3% profit on anything they sell to Ford. My uncle said he was playing golf with Red the next day and offered to share my concerns - I declined his offer. Of course they were both in CA on the company dime staying at a posh Palm Springs Hotel for a business meeting - the fact it was the dead of winter in Dearborn I'm sure had no effect on the choice of location. I wonder what the final cost was for 20 VPs and their wives to spend a week in Palm Springs.
I think (years ago) Nissan started a 'factory' freshening of 240Zs and the program wasn't around long.
Never knew what happened. Guessing when things got tight these kinds of programs go by the wayside.
You'd think they could set these up as self-stationing?
The 240Z program was in the mid/late 1990s. I got to drive one of the first ones and yes, it drove like an almost-new 240Z.
The whole thing faded away within a few years, IIRC, as it was more $$ to restore the cars than it was for a customer to find a nice one and just buy it.
But, I guess that's (almost) always the way it works.
Its sad Ford never really had it for the 'street' guys. This is why Chevrolet has dominated the performance street reputation for the masses. Look now what the popular LS series of engines has done to revive the small block evolution. Ford, on the other hand is still playing catch up. They never learn.
Quote from: crossboss on May 09, 2022, 06:15:23 PM
Its sad Ford never really had it for the 'street' guys. This is why Chevrolet has dominated the performance street reputation for the masses. Look now what the popular LS series of engines has done to revive the small block evolution. Ford, on the other hand is still playing catch up. They never learn.
Chevy has always been the most HP for your dollar. Take a look at crate engine prices between Ford and Chevy. I've got a new (not rebuilt) Chevy 300 hp 4 bolt main SB in the garage. I think it was about $1,900 delivered. What's a used 4 bolt 302 block - $1,500? All the replicas in Ford v Ferrari were powered by LS engines. Ever ask yourself why Pete Brock never opens the hood of his beautiful red Coupe at a Ford event? I'll let you guess.
So true. Back when I was racing in the late 60's I used to get upset when I would walk into John Geer Chevrolet and see a long block L88 selling for what I was paying for a HiPo 289 short block. Still get steamed thinking about it! Darn beancounters.
QuoteChevy has always been the most HP for your dollar. Take a look at crate engine prices between Ford and Chevy. I've got a new (not rebuilt) Chevy 300 hp 4 bolt main SB in the garage. I think it was about $1,900 delivered. What's a used 4 bolt 302 block - $1,500? All the replicas in Ford v Ferrari were powered by LS engines. Ever ask yourself why Pete Brock never opens the hood of his beautiful red Coupe at a Ford event? I'll let you guess.
I have always been annoyed that the aftermarket, along with enthusiast publications, were SBC, SBC, SBC centric. But your comment is reality. Upside is that SBFs are covered by the aftermarket, albeit, more money.
I commend GM for deloping the LS engine series. The upgraded OHV design makes a heck of impressive performance package that's a good value. I attended the LSFest-West and was impressed that the OHV V8 is alive and well and it's installed in every non-GM from Fords (which I refused to acknowledge. Put a Ford in your Ford is my standard.) to 911s. As a result, performance interest remains healthy.
While the Modular V8 is a very good engine, Ford got high tech excessive with 3V and 4V versions. At least with the 2V you can avoid variable cam timing and extra valve and cam costs. Plus bigger bore centers would have been nice.
Sad to read the comment about Pete Brock and his Cobra coupe.
As a post script I offer the following for your consideration.
I read a recent Forbes article about how one coming aspect of cars is that manufacturers will be offering various apps as subscriptions like Microsoft does with its Windows, which translates into yearly charges. Also noted is that car makers no longer update older apps because the software is obsolete, like Apple no longer supports I Phone 6s.
It occured to me another reason why there's EV support besides enviromental and government aspects. An EV is esentially a computer on wheels with various programs, from drivetrain to Alexa connectivity, to be upgraded as needed. The concept of a car, transportation, image, enjoyment, is muted.
To quote Zora Arkus-Duntov, "The thoughts are offered for what they are worth - one man's thinking aloud on the subject."
Quote from: 68countrysedan on May 09, 2022, 09:17:00 PM
I read a recent Forbes article about how one coming aspect of cars is that manufacturers will be offering various apps as subscriptions like Microsoft does with its Windows, which translates into yearly charges. Also noted is that car makers no longer update older apps because the software is obsolete, like Apple no longer supports I Phone 6s.
It occured to me another reason why there's EV support besides enviromental and government aspects. An EV is esentially a computer on wheels with various programs, from drivetrain to Alexa connectivity, to be upgraded as needed. The concept of a car, transportation, image, enjoyment, is muted.
To quote Zora Arkus-Duntov, "The thoughts are offered for what they are worth - one man's thinking aloud on the subject."
Tesla has a lot of options you can buy and they will download to your car. Problems have cropped up when the owner sells the car with the options and then Tesla deletes them from the software because in fact the "owner" only purchased the app for the time he owned the car.
With OBD III they will be able to remotely monitor and send changes to your car - They'll even be able to mail you a ticket or shut the car off if you don't pay your tickets or get the smog system fault they detected fixed.
Never Forget Zora
Arkus-
Duntov invented the Ardun cylinder head for the Ford flathead and tried to get a job at Ford. They sent him on his way because they were not interested in performance.